Stallion Spotlight

C-Quito1

Real Estate Spotlight

photo1
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

liability waivers--KY ruling- "a parent has no authority to enter into contracts on a child's behalf."

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • liability waivers--KY ruling- "a parent has no authority to enter into contracts on a child's behalf."

    This ruling will extend in horse world,

    For-profit companies like House of Boom can be held liable for children's injuries even if parents sign a waiver promising not to sue, the Kentucky Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

    In a unanimous decision, the high court said that, for the most part, under Kentucky law, "a parent has no authority to enter into contracts on a child's behalf."
    At issue is a lawsuit filed by Kathy Miller, whose 11-year-old daughter identified as "E.M." broke her ankle at House of Boom in Louisville in 2015. Miller had checked a box saying she, on behalf of her daughter, would "forever discharge and agree not to sue" the trampoline park.

    House of Boom asked a federal judge to dismiss the case, citing the waiver Miller signed. But because the case involved a "novel issue of state law," the federal court asked the Kentucky Supreme Court to weigh in.
    In the ruling authored by Justice Laurance B. VanMeter, the high court noted that in 11 of 12 jurisdictions in the U.S., waivers between parents and for-profit entities have been found unenforceable.

    https://www.wdrb.com/news/house-of-b...f5a5d152c.html


    link to complete ruling

    http://opinions.kycourts.net/sc/2018-SC-000625-CL.pdf

    from page 11 of ruling

    A commercial entity has the ability to purchase insurance and spread the cost between its customers. It also has the ability to train its employees and inspect the business for unsafe conditions. A child has no similar ability to protect himself from the negligence of others within the confines of a commercial establishment.
    the footnotes in the ruling are an interesting read of the history of how this has come about
    Not responsible for typographical errors.

  • #2
    I thought this was already a thing pretty much everywhere. Under 18 you can't enter into a contract, and no one can sign away your rights. Catch-22.

    Do you suppose that the state-level equine limited liability laws (where you usually have to post a sign with specific wording) help at all? I'm not sure how many of those have really been tested.

    I love that Georgia's law where I am specifically mentions llamas:
    Code of Georgia Annotated. Title 4. Animals. Chapter 12. Injuries from Equine or Llama Activities.
    --
    Wendy
    ... and Patrick

    Comment


    • #3
      It should get the attention of the equine world in KY (and perhaps elsewhere). The logic of using insurance to share and spread risk is right out of the CA Supreme Court playbook of the '60s and '70s. This decision could have some interesting unintended (or perhaps intended) consequences.

      G.
      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raa, Uma Paixo

      Comment


      • #4
        I am not an attorney, so do not take any of the below as legal advice.

        This case is specifically regarding an amusement-park type venue. Horse-related activities are treated a lot differently in Kentucky. The below article from a law firm discusses it more in detail. So... while a parent cannot sign away the rights of their child, there are laws in place (if followed correctly) that protect farms and horse-related activities, in MOST cases.

        "In 1996, the General Assembly enacted the Farm Animals Activity Act(“FAAA”), which dictated that the inherent risks associated with farm animals, including horses, are beyond the reasonable control of farm animal activity sponsors, professionals, or other involved persons..."
        https://www.mcbrayerfirm.com/blogs-l...-test-rides-of

        Edited to Add: This does not have any context on what a farm's INSURANCE company might require it to do in order to remain in good standing.
        Last edited by L00kAtMeN0w; Jun. 14, 2019, 09:42 AM. Reason: Adding insurance comment.
        www.mayaswellevent.wordpress.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by L00kAtMeN0w View Post
          So... while a parent cannot sign away the rights of their child, there are laws in place (if followed correctly) that protect farms and horse-related activities, in MOST cases.
          The problem with this theory is, not all states have an affective Equine Limited Liability law.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
            The problem with this theory is, not all states have an affective Equine Limited Liability law.
            Totally agree! My response was only in response to KY. I know that in states like CT, where horses are considered an "attractive nuisance" the laws are obviously a lot less protective of farms and the equine community.
            www.mayaswellevent.wordpress.com

            Comment


            • #7
              It appears the sensible thing to do is refuse to offer risky services to children.

              This ruling really absolves parents of their responsibility to look after their own children. Kids do have accidents and get hurt whether from ignoring instructions, or simply having a moment of losing control of their body. No reasonable person would hold the parent liable for their child falling off a bicycle and breaking something.

              ​​​​​Childhood is full of bumps, scrapes and bruises - and should be. It's a vital part of development to learn balance, coordination, proprioception, and even risk assessment.

              If the trampoline park was failing to inspect the equipment and leaving broken equipment in use that is negligence, and negligence can nullify an adult's release of liability. But if the child simply had a childhood accident the park shouldn't be held responsible.

              Comment


              • #8
                This would pretty much shut down all camps and play places. It will kill all sorts of businesses. Those trampoline places send kids to the dentist and ER daily (ask me how I know...).

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm wondering about the effects on medical treatment waivers, and other waivers like permission for field trips or class trips. I think if it's extended to youth sports, it will end those too.
                  You can't fix stupid-Ron White

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    They can get around anything limiting their liability to sue proving the service provider was negligent. Provider needs to get a lawyer to defend themselves and prove there was no negligence. Cant win even if you “ win” in court.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RedHorses View Post
                      It appears the sensible thing to do is refuse to offer risky services to children.
                      That is the ultimate effect. It is already happening.

                      No matter where you go, there you are

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by L00kAtMeN0w View Post
                        So... while a parent cannot sign away the rights of their child, there are laws in place (if followed correctly) that protect farms and horse-related activities, in MOST cases.
                        I am in PA. They have an equine liability law but I am pretty sure it only applies to adults.



                        Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Equine liability laws don’t protect the barn, trainer or horse owner from having to fight a negligence claim, in that you have to prove your innocence. I carried an individual horse owner liability policy the last few years I was in a teaching and training barn. Not expensive and peace of mind
                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by findeight View Post
                            Equine liability laws don’t protect the barn, trainer or horse owner from having to fight a negligence claim, in that you have to prove your innocence. I carried an individual horse owner liability policy the last few years I was in a teaching and training barn. Not expensive and peace of mind
                            In litigation the defense in any matter has no duty to prove anything. The burden of proof always lies with the moving party. Once the moving party establishes a prima facie case for it's position the burden of "moving forward with the evidence" shifts to the defense if they wish to continue to contest the claim. That's how it works. *

                            Some limited liability laws do protect against ordinary negligence but not all. I don't know of one that protects against gross negligence or willful, wanton, reckless, or intentional misconduct.

                            Read the statute for your State before making ANY comments about it.

                            G.

                            *Unless, of course, you are accused of certain socially abhorrent matters like sexual harassment, racist statements or behaviors, and the like. THEN to be accused is to be guilty, at least in the court of public opinion. In these matters a defendant still has no duty to prove anything, either, as no proof they might offer will ever be accepted. Fortunately, in most judicial forums, the old rule still applies.

                            Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raa, Uma Paixo

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              regarding minors rights there has always been "parens patriae" which means the the government, or any other authority, regarded as the legal protector of citizens unable to protect themselves.can intervene

                              Not responsible for typographical errors.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JanM View Post
                                I'm wondering about the effects on medical treatment waivers, and other waivers like permission for field trips or class trips. I think if it's extended to youth sports, it will end those too.
                                The decision cited "for-profit companies"

                                ... _. ._ .._. .._

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  This has always been a thing... crazy and not realized by most. Even in NJ where we have very good equine liability laws, this is something lawyers latch onto very quickly.

                                  Makes a farm owner not want children on your property or your horses, which is a shame.
                                  http://www.windsweptfarmllc.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Equibrit View Post

                                    The decision cited "for-profit companies"
                                    From the point of view of the injured person why would the profit/non-profit line be relevant? Once upon a time there was a general liability exception for non-profit organizations but that died more than half a century ago.

                                    The vast bulk of the equine world is for profit. Maybe it lets not-for-profit, therapeutic programs off the hook, but maybe not. The injured person is just as hurt if something goes wrong.

                                    G.
                                    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raa, Uma Paixo

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      For-profit companies are deemed to have the wherwithall to purchase insurance. Ironically, from the insurance companies that fight liability claims in court.
                                      ... _. ._ .._. .._

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                                        For-profit companies are deemed to have the wherwithall to purchase insurance. Ironically, from the insurance companies that fight liability claims in court.
                                        What prevents non-profits from buying insurance? The "we need to spend our money on the object of our charitable charter" was the argument used to excuse charities from liability for negligence. That died not long after I was born. I'm almost surprised that issue even was considered.

                                        When a company issues a liability policy they do so by having REALLY smart people called "actuaries" assess the risks presented so that other REALLY smart people called "underwriters" can make rational premium decision. In reality few claims are litigated. Mostly it's the ones with very close fact situations, very large damages, or novel questions which have the likelihood of making new law.

                                        If I were a 4H executive in KY I'd likely give serious thought to ending any sanctioned interactions between minors and large animals.

                                        G.

                                        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raa, Uma Paixo

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X