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PPE - Looking for opinions

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  • #41
    Super cute horse! What a sweetie.

    OP, in the second video you posted and mentioned that he was fresher, I actually see that as the pace required for him to make the strides - I think of it as a horse being perfectly capable of getting down the lines but having a “true 12-foot stride” instead of what a lot of modern warmbloods (for example) have, which is closer to a 14’ stride. He certainly doesn’t look spicy or running away to me in that second video.

    Which is perfectly expected given his breeding and current capabilities - just wanted to point it out as another factor to consider when assessing his potential for (regularly) jumping over 3’.

    I agree with the suggestion to long-term full lease him if at all possible. See if the lameness resolves and stays resolved/managed, see if his fitness progresses as you’d hope, see if the lead changes solidify, and see if his body and brain take to jumping bigger jumps.


    • #42
      Originally posted by TMares View Post
      Buy him. He's a keeper. Conditioning and strength training will do wonders
      I agree 100%


      • #43
        Don’t see kind of canter in this one that allows a horse to reach up behind, plant the hinds and power off the ground. He seems to want to drop and dive into the canter both ways instead of shifting back to strike off as you want. The speeding up might be compensating for not wanting to or not being able to rock back because he either can't do it or it hurts to do so.

        He appears pretty short strided with no reaching the hind up into the front hoof-print as we want to see in a forward moving horse, probably conformationally related as TWHs are not bred to have the great gallop as horses that jump need.

        I also see different size steps from one back leg to the other, generally that's soundness related. Looking more carefully, I see the other things noted but that asymmetrical stride is the thing you need to learn to see as it’s the best indicator somethings not right. Even if sound, not seeing a great candidate for a jumping career, just not built for it.

        But he may be a good horse for beginner level riders and trail riding. Not for 5500 if you have any ambition to resell him though. Lease him if you just have to have him.
        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


        • #44
          Please read bewoulf's last post (34) and watch your eq video again!! Horse is using L to support takeoff and is lagging on R. Changes are simple or not pretty due to R Hind.

          This horse is not just lacking in fitness and balance, he is not sound. That being said, he is cute, co operative and appears to be an all round good citizen. I would be happy to consider an in barn arrangement that allows you continued use on a risk managed basis. You look comfortable and happy riding him which is valuable. I encourage you to continue riding him. I would not consider a purchase.

          I do not see this horse working at much above 2'6". Nothing bad about that, a lot of people cruise around at 2'6" 2'9" forever. Evaluate where you are going, and how you would support or sell this horse if you move up, and he can not, or worse, you find yourself with an eight year old pasture puff. Caution.


          • #45
            I also see some bunny hopping in the first video when he's on the right lead. However, I think that's likely left hind or more likely SI, not the right hind. Overall, he does not travel like a stifle horse, even considering his breeding. Sore SI could also be aggravated by flexing the opposite hind limb. I think he looks better in the second video, and there he's also better with the pace, straighter, largely a bit more uphill / balanced.

            He seems entirely suitable for this job he's doing now, and he could use some more conditioning and likely some body work and maybe veterinary support. That said, I don't really see this horse as fulfilling your ultimate goals. In which case, I'm with the group of advocating you continue to lease him for the time being if that's an option.


            • #46
              I agree with the other posters, he does not look 100% sound in the video, as a been there done that former upper level packer in his early 20s getting you into jumping who cares.

              As an 8yo horse just starting over fences, big deal.

              I also agree with the poster who says this is not your Training level eventer. A good horse for you now, maybe, depending on soundness.


              • Original Poster

                Quick update for those interested!
                I've contacted Dr. Richard Mansmann (a lameness specialist) for a second opinion. I sent him the PPE findings, the two videos above, pics of his feet, and a conformation picture - he said he would get back to me this evening.
                Thanks again for all the advice - I appreciate everyone helping me learn as I go.


                • #48
                  Originally posted by jmp1993 View Post
                  Quick update for those interested!
                  I've contacted Dr. Richard Mansmann (a lameness specialist) for a second opinion. I sent him the PPE findings, the two videos above, pics of his feet, and a conformation picture - he said he would get back to me this evening.
                  Thanks again for all the advice - I appreciate everyone helping me learn as I go.
                  Keep us updated! I'm curious to hear what he says.

                  Also, Mansmann, that is a fantastic name


                  • #49
                    Please keep in mind that several who have responded here, self included, have remarked that this horse does not have the type of physical build that would lead to success at the jobs and levels you say are your future goals even if sound. Maybe suitable as an an itroductory mount but not over 2’6”, Just does not have the hip and shoulder angles to allow it, nor was he bred for that job.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Bluey View Post

                      He does move oddly behind here and there, but consider his breeding, TWH/appy.

                      You get that in some TWH crosses I saw, rather common.
                      I gave lessons with those horses when I was teaching in AL.
                      They tend to be a bit more substantial, but maybe the appy used was on the lighter side?
                      This. I saw this horse move and said "TWH hind legs. Normal."

                      All that said, I had a PSG horse that was positively crippled when you did cross-flexions of the stifle. No arthritic changes, and he took me from 1st through PSG and got me my Bronze Medal and 3/4 of my Silver Medal. Flexions are not proof positive that the horse is lame. They tell you where he may have some issues and soreness, and a lot of that can be managed with the right injections.

                      My question to you would be, "Can you afford to do twice yearly stifle/SI/hock injections that will make the horse happy?"

                      If the answer is yes, and you love him, I'd take the change for such a reasonably priced, charming animal.
                      Here Be Dragons: My blog about venturing beyond the lower levels as a dressage amateur.


                      • #51
                        Good idea, price injections with your vet if it is determined he’s sound enough to consider purchases. Most price by injection site and specific contents of the injections. Plus farm call, tranq and any X-rays that might be prudent before sticking them.

                        Used to get hocks done yearly, upper and lower. 4 sites IIRC, might have been 6...been awhile. 4-500 all in. Horse also got monthly Legend at 100 per. That’s close to 2k a year for maintainance.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                        • #52
                          Dr. Mansmann is excellent and I'm curious to see what he has to say!


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by jmp1993 View Post

                            I agree with both of your points. Makes it a difficult decision haha.
                            Would you say I should leverage this into a drop in price if I do decide to purchase?
                            Absolutely. My last horse failed his PPE miserably from the knees down. I mean, my vet HATED him from there but loved him from knees up. Price went down from $2500 to $500. With good care he lasted many years before it all went south.
                            "Cats aren't clean; they're covered with cat spit."
                            - John S Nichols (1745-1846,writer/printer)

                            Don't come for me - I didn't send for you.


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by findeight View Post
                              Please keep in mind that several who have responded here, self included, have remarked that this horse does not have the type of physical build that would lead to success at the jobs and levels you say are your future goals even if sound. Maybe suitable as an an itroductory mount but not over 2’6”, Just does not have the hip and shoulder angles to allow it, nor was he bred for that job.
                              I'm going to repost this so it doesn't get overlooked. OP, horse is wonderful and looks like a nice safe mount but be honest with yourself about how far he can take you. I agree with the post I have quoted, he may not have the physical build to do all that you want to do.