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Ever Look At Sale Ads And Wonder...

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  • #21
    I can think of a few people who have horses listed (not advertised really) for sale at higher than market price. For them it's a matter of not needing to sell the horse, but if someone walked up and offered them X amount, they would sell. So for them, the horse is nice enough that they find more value in keeping the animal, unless $X were offered.

    So this is one reason to see "overpriced" horses.

    On the other hand, I've had friends list horses for sale that you couldn't pay me to take on, with asking prices I thought were too high who sold for asking price. I guess some of it is a matter of taste.

    Re: fox hunters...I think people who have never been hunting don't think about what the horses need to be able to cope with. They think it's like a hunter pace with some dogs. But once you've hunted, you know those good-minded horses are worth their weight in gold, even though they aren't commanding the prices of competive jumpers or Dressage horses. It's similar with trail horses.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by CHT View Post
      Although Agree with the topic in general, why the knocking of trail horses? A really safe, smooth and experienced trail horse that can go out alone, cross rivers, climb mountains, encounter wildlife and not bat an eye, could well be worth five figures to the right person. I get tired of people knocking true/good trail horses.
      I was gonna say the same. For as many posts on CoTH from people having problems with their horses out on trails!

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      • #23
        Originally posted by CHT View Post
        Although Agree with the topic in general, why the knocking of trail horses? A really safe, smooth and experienced trail horse that can go out alone, cross rivers, climb mountains, encounter wildlife and not bat an eye, could well be worth five figures to the right person. I get tired of people knocking true/good trail horses.
        IMO there's a difference between a backcountry horse -- what you're talking about -- and the weekend warrior horse Ma and Pa take down to the lake to ride around on a bit. I'd might be convinced to pay five figures for the former. Not so much for the latter. Doesn't stop people from pricing the latter like the former.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by AppaloosaDressage View Post

          Yep. I've seen some really interesting ISO ads. Saw one a few days ago reading: "Bombproof ottb with FEI dressage potential, some changes ok but no current soreness, looking to purchase this weekend."
          Yeah ok, let me know how that works out for ya.
          My new lease horse actually checks those boxes. Well, maybe not bombproof but really quiet. Only OTTB I've met that's at a solid 4th level in dressage. I doubt the price tag would be what this person wants. Lol

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          • #25
            Are you serious?? Is that a real ad?

            Originally posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post

            Ha! Yeah, sheesh indeed. And maybe a YEESH! Or an OY VEY!

            Example:

            ISO Upper Level Eventing prospect, WB (NO TBs) 4-7 years old, 16'2"+ (rider is tall with long legs), geldings ONLY!, must be quiet enough for beginner but talented enough for pro, NO vices, easy-keeper, takes a joke, must be elastic mover and easy to sit, dressage scores in the 20's, scopey enough to eventually go Advanced but quiet enough to pack husband on trails, budget 5K. Would be willing to go up for PERFECT horse.

            (Rinse/repeat for hunters OR jumpers, but I'm an eventer so see a lot of the above ^ ^ ^ )

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            • #26
              Originally posted by CHT View Post
              Although Agree with the topic in general, why the knocking of trail horses? A really safe, smooth and experienced trail horse that can go out alone, cross rivers, climb mountains, encounter wildlife and not bat an eye, could well be worth five figures to the right person. I get tired of people knocking true/good trail horses.
              AppaloosaDressage - like I said back off the crack jack. Yikes, and then they only want to pay 5 cents for the horse.
              "Cats aren't clean; they're covered with cat spit."
              - John S Nichols (1745-1846,writer/printer)

              Don't come for me - I didn't send for you.

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              • #27
                When I was looking at horse ads, I was struck by the variety in pricing. Of course, too low and you wonder "what is wrong?" and too high and you skip over figuring they are not living in reality. Then there is a wiiiiide range in between.

                I dont really know about the pricing in disciplines Im not familiar with. And of course "trail horse" can mean anything from "Not too likely to buck or bolt outside the arena if all goes well" to "Ready to follow the Man from Snowy River".

                I feel like I paid "too much" for the horse I bought. But after looking for another six weeks and finding nothing I liked as well, I went back and made the deal. So sometimes the horse just needs the right buyer. (And it wasn't a crazy amount more!)

                The only ads I really dislike are the ones stating that they owned the horse for 15 years and now it is not fully sound, 20+ year old and they want you to buy it and be its forever home. Perhaps sometimes life happens and you cant keep your old horse, but I dont think this is often the case in these ads and they rub me the wrong way.

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                • #28
                  In my previous post, the disconnect was not just lack of understanding what's required to be a hunting horse, it was the idea that as a never hunted *prospect*, someone would pay 20K. A made field hunter with a resume? Sure, that's a 20K horse, maybe more if it's a weight carrier, but something that's never seen hounds? Because the seller thinks "he would love it?" I guess the question I should have asked is "How does he feel about his current career as a dressage horse? Does he love that?"

                  And yes, I am aware to a segment of the riding public "trail horse" or "pleasure horse" means not trained in any specific discipline, but sorta kinda broke.

                  Not my definition of a trail horse. I would pay up to 10K for a really, truly well trained trail horse.
                  The plural of anecdote is not data.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by McGurk View Post

                    Not my definition of a trail horse. I would pay up to 10K for a really, truly well trained trail horse.
                    $10k would be cheap for a highly competitive well trained trail horse as you will find that horse is also an all around mount that will do just about anything at a high level. Add being Pretty into the mix really adds value also.
                    Not responsible for typographical errors.

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                    • #30
                      If you're talking about actually doing competitive trail as opposed to keeping you safe in the mountains, then $10K is probably ballpark.

                      I wish you could have seen my old guy. He was sold to me as a 9 year old quarter horse cross who was mostly used as a pack horse. The owners were looking to transition to all mules so he was for sale. I fell in love with him the instant I saw him. Around 15.1 hands, chestnut, blaze, stocky strong body, good legs and feet and the kindest eye in the world. He could get up and go when asked but was careful and serious when negotiating the mountains. In his lifetime he carried me hundreds if not thousands of miles over 20 years with me and although we didn't always see eye to eye, he and I were tight and knew each other so well. He was fun to ride, had a cute personality and was a jokester. Turns out he was not quarter horse at all but a Morgan, which was told to me by a Morgan breeder who said he had all the hallmarks of the breed. Dang I miss him.

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                      • #31
                        I've seen barns advertise a horse for sale for an inflated price, then advertise that it's been sold, but the whole time they had a buyer (usually their own client who paid less); so it was just a fake sale ad used as advertising and puffery for higher volume/dollar sales for the barn. If I see a random sale ad for 20k and then a "Sold!" on it, I have no idea if that horse sold for 20k, 18k, or 4k. So if that's what your guideline is for pricing, no wonder it's out of whack.

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                        • #32
                          Yes, I think a lot of people adverise a horse at a certain price to set a public value for their breeding or training program, and sell for a lot less. So both buyer and seller can say the horse is "really" worth $20,000 when the real price was $5000.

                          Price inflation by knowledgeable trainers is also one thing, usually strategic. Price inflation from some backyard doofus is another thing. The "why" is going to be different in each of these cases.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Yup. This drives me nuts.You have NO IDEA how a horse is going to pan out in the hunt field until you're about six hunts into the experience. You cannot replicate the hunt experience without, well, hunting!
                            Originally posted by Dutchmare433 View Post

                            Re: fox hunters...I think people who have never been hunting don't think about what the horses need to be able to cope with. They think it's like a hunter pace with some dogs. But once you've hunted, you know those good-minded horses are worth their weight in gold, even though they aren't commanding the prices of competive jumpers or Dressage horses. It's similar with trail horses.
                            Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                            EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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                            • #34
                              I had someone tell me they were going to LEASE their pony out for 30k.

                              The pony was was super sweet, but was terrible with kids and would take off on them. No real show experience, too quick to be a hunter, and couldn't jump the pony jumpers. Not safe on trails, lived on a calming supplement, and needed maintenance to get her lead changes. Not saying this pony wasn't amazing for this family, but to basically want some small adult to lease this pony and ride it for fun for a year and pay them an exorbitant amount of money so they could get another horse just didn't sit right with me.

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
                                Yes, I think a lot of people adverise a horse at a certain price to set a public value for their breeding or training program, and sell for a lot less. So both buyer and seller can say the horse is "really" worth $20,000 when the real price was $5000.

                                Price inflation by knowledgeable trainers is also one thing, usually strategic. Price inflation from some backyard doofus is another thing. The "why" is going to be different in each of these cases.
                                Well, that's my point. The "backyard doofus," as you call them, has no idea how to value their horses for the market because they don't know what actual purchase prices are. All they see are adds for an 'x' kind of horse for 20k, and price their horse accordingly.

                                Nice snobbery you got going on, but plenty of trainers are asking and expecting too much for their horses, not just an equestrian selling their own horse that they keep at a barn at their house. And then there are the 6 figure asks by large sale barns for horses who walk out of the stall lame.

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by punchy View Post

                                  Well, that's my point. The "backyard doofus," as you call them, has no idea how to value their horses for the market because they don't know what actual purchase prices are. All they see are adds for an 'x' kind of horse for 20k, and price their horse accordingly.

                                  Nice snobbery you got going on, but plenty of trainers are asking and expecting too much for their horses, not just an equestrian selling their own horse that they keep at a barn at their house. And then there are the 6 figure asks by large sale barns for horses who walk out of the stall lame.
                                  I completely agree that many trainers are asking way more than I think a horse is worth, and that they sell to less experienced clients who are in part paying for a horse acceptable to their trainer. I also suspect that some of these horses are sold at a discount that makes them closer to their market value but buyer and seller can both go on saying its a $50,000 horse or whatever.

                                  Sorry if I came across as snobbish, but my point was that trainers and sales barns over price strategically to see what the market will be. There is a vested interest in *every trainer* in a discipline pricing high because then the "value" of a horse in that discipline rises.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Some people keep nice, well trained horses in their nice backyards and others really deserve the backyard doofus tag. Don't take it personally. I came out of a nice backyard and it never bothered me but there is a valid point in referring to something as backyard trained.

                                    All you need to do is watch the sale videos with the horse weaving around a tractor dodging a goat. Now, some of those are pretty well broke or somebody would have died but wouldn't look for any specialized skills pointing to success in competition in the near future. And those better be cheap.

                                    Thing that's always gotten me is the misleading terminology and translating "ad speak" into English before driving hours to look at a horse. For example

                                    Jet Black=brown
                                    Mahogany Bay=brown
                                    Bright chestnut= brown.
                                    8 year old= either 2 or 10
                                    16h= 15.1. Tops.
                                    Great on trails= once or twice we tried it
                                    Propect= untrained
                                    Great jump= just not with a rider

                                    And on and on. Some I don't blame, they don't know what they don't know. You get to where you can sort of tell before wasting too much time oersuing a particular horse. But you still get fooled, even today intne digital age.

                                    One point about ads for less numerous breeds. You don't know if that seller is delusional or an actual successful breeder of a rarer breed offering quality stock at a fair price. We have a longtime poster on here who is just that with a very good reputation. You could miss out if you are too quick to dismiss if the unusual breed and price are your only clues to the seller. There's usually other clues in the ad, pictures and video but don't just go by price.


                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by PNWjumper View Post
                                      I guess I'm struggling to understand why you care that someone has their horses (potentially) over-priced? And I'm not sure who made you the judge of horse pricing? Maybe that horse is a packer extraordinaire and worth every penny? Or maybe it's a backyard nag that's not worth $1k, but it's not *your* horse to sell, so it shouldn't matter either way. IME, when someone has a horse grossly overpriced, it doesn't sell. That's self-correcting karma (or something). No need for random strangers to add their voice to it

                                      Yes, I am a little sensitive about this subject, but I get trainers (and random strangers) telling me this often enough that it sets me on edge to hear it here. I sell most of my horses in the higher 5-figure range, and I frequently get comments and messages about how "my pricing is ridiculous." And yet, I've sold every horse I've had at the asking price and in the time frame I've expected (and, FTR, I've also had trainers tell me that my horses are underpriced - everyone's a critic!).

                                      And don't even get me started on the people who read my ads that state "horse is priced in the high 5-figure range," text me to ask the price, and then when I respond with $85k" text me back something nasty about how they only have $25k and *that's* high 5-figures to them, and "who do you think you are to have your horse priced at $85k?!"

                                      At the end of the day, it doesn't hurt YOU to have someone asking 17k for THEIR horse. Yes, it might be overpriced for the market, in which case the horse won't sell. Period.
                                      The issue is with people who price their horses unreasonably, not with people who fairly price their horse high because their breeding / training / show results / market value warrant it. I get why he OP is frustrated, because it is very time consuming and irritating to wade through such ads. Life and death? no. But annoying nonetheless.


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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Bogie View Post
                                        Yup. This drives me nuts.You have NO IDEA how a horse is going to pan out in the hunt field until you're about six hunts into the experience. You cannot replicate the hunt experience without, well, hunting!
                                        You made me think of the first time I took first eventer hunting. Drag hunt, so the runs were fast. When we started, he went vertical and bolted. I was able to get him back under control before he passed too many people. Once he realized he was going to be allowed to gallop, he settled down and behaved very well. After the first check, he seemed to have figured it out, and we had a great day, even giving a couple of regular hunt members leads over a few fences. We hunted with that hunt a couple more times. But I realize I was very fortunate tha t he learned to cope so quickly. That first rear was both scary and embarassing, but he certainly redeemed himself! He was an Appy, foundation bloodlines.

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by punchy View Post

                                          Well, that's my point. The "backyard doofus," as you call them, has no idea how to value their horses for the market because they don't know what actual purchase prices are. All they see are adds for an 'x' kind of horse for 20k, and price their horse accordingly.
                                          .
                                          might be because we backyard doofus had no intention of selling the prized mount... more than once we had unsolicited people try to buy a couple of our kid's horses.... the topper was the guy who was dumbfound when I told him the horse was not mine to sell, she was my kids' horse... he told me all I was going to do with was ruin her... yes we did, horse continued winning beating all the others in multiple disciplines until retired in her twenties

                                          As for us buying horses, we never relied upon some ad as mostly we knew the horse we bought or went to where the horse was to spend some time with it... daughters were always finding a horse in Billings, Montana area.. that was along road trip but doable
                                          Not responsible for typographical errors.

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