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restrictions on horse adoption?

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  • restrictions on horse adoption?

    i was looking online at multiple horse rescues, based in the us mainland. i plan to move there sometime in the next year and a half and my horse will need some kind of companionship when we do. ive always wanted to rescue a horse, so this seemed like a reasonable solution. however as i was looking i realized that most of these places have insane rules about adopting! like pages and pages of detailed rules about the potential buyers/potential homes/potential everything! some of the rules i understand (like fencing must be safe, stalls must be a certain size, water has to be available at all times etc etc etc. I get that. but some of the rules were actually insane! for example: you can't adopt if you live more than 4 hours away. this presents a problem for me especially because when/if I move back home, that will be wayyyy more than 4 hours away. So what am I expected to do, give the horse back? Another from the same site: the horse cannot be "sold, loaned, leased, given away or traded". If the owner is "unable to comply" with these rules, then the horse MUST be returned to them at once. So getting a part-boarder for the horse (IF) i get busy (SOMETIME) in the very possible future then i have to also return the horse? it doesnt make sense to me. A common trend that i saw across multiple sites was that ownership would not be transferred EVER or it would be, after a substantial amount of time (like 5+ years). This just seems problematic to me for lots of reasons. the last thing was that some rescues required the adopter to send them weekly or bi-weekly detailed updates to them about the horse. No, just no. I just wanted to give a horse a good home, not sign away my privacy rights.

    Sorry if this seems a little dramatic

    What are your thoughts? do these rules seem too-much for you? would you still adopt a horse from any of them? am i overreacting? have you adopted a horse from a rescue like these before? general thoughts?

  • #2
    I would not acquire a horse from a rescue with restrictive rules. If I wanted to save a horse down on its luck, there's enough out there you can buy for cheap.

    Comment


    • #3
      Generally, I think they run the gamut from good intentions (trying to keep the horses they rescue from ever needing to be rescued again, hence requirements not to resell, etc, or wanting to be able to monitor the horses, hence requirements they remain within a certain geographic radius) to fruitbat crazy.

      I personally won't adopt from a rescue. I'm not interested in their contract restrictions, even though I appreciate what they are doing. I do donate financially to some rescues that I think are generally well run and do a good job managing their horses with people who are ok with the contract restrictions.

      You can keep looking for a 501(c)3 whose contract suits your current and likely future needs, if you really want to go through a rescue. The benefits are that the rehab should be done already and you'll know something about training and temperament.

      Or you can find your own rescue--horses in bad shape are all over Facebook, Craigs List, etc. You won't have to deal with all the contract restrictions, but you'll have to be prepared for rehab (could be $$$) and need to be equipped to assess/deal with any training issues the horse might have. It's a risk, and you can pour a lot into the horse only to have them not make it in the end.

      If you aren't ready for a full-on rescue, you can always pick up one of the many older or permanently lame horses that are out there, too. Plenty of reasonably healthy horses with known training/temperament/history/medical status need homes as well, and don't have all the risks of a full-on rescue.

      There are plenty of ways to find a companion for your horse and help a horse in need, without having to get involved in contracts you don't like.
      She Gets Lost

      Comment


      • #4
        There are a lot of small local rescues that you could try. When I adopted my mini she came out and looked at where we lived and liked it. They’re only rules was no pony should ever be alone, if you didn’t already have a horse you had to adopt a pair. And if for whatever reason you could no longer care for the pony you’d give them a chance to adopt the pony back. I do send an update a few times a year, my choice not required. I know someone who had the same issue adopting a dog. If you look I’m sure you’ll find something that works for you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Halt Near X View Post
          Generally, I think they run the gamut from good intentions (trying to keep the horses they rescue from ever needing to be rescued again, hence requirements not to resell, etc, or wanting to be able to monitor the horses, hence requirements they remain within a certain geographic radius) to fruitbat crazy.

          I personally won't adopt from a rescue. I'm not interested in their contract restrictions, even though I appreciate what they are doing. I do donate financially to some rescues that I think are generally well run and do a good job managing their horses with people who are ok with the contract restrictions.

          You can keep looking for a 501(c)3 whose contract suits your current and likely future needs, if you really want to go through a rescue. The benefits are that the rehab should be done already and you'll know something about training and temperament.
          AND IF YOU SHOULD NEED TO FIND THE HORSE A NEW HOME, GOOD RESCUES TAKE THEIR OWN BACK, PROVIDING THE HORSE, AND YOU AS ADOPTER, A SAFETY NET.

          Or you can find your own rescue--horses in bad shape are all over Facebook, Craigs List, etc. You won't have to deal with all the contract restrictions, but you'll have to be prepared for rehab (could be $$$) and need to be equipped to assess/deal with any training issues the horse might have. It's a risk, and you can pour a lot into the horse only to have them not make it in the end.

          If you aren't ready for a full-on rescue, you can always pick up one of the many older or permanently lame horses that are out there, too. Plenty of reasonably healthy horses with known training/temperament/history/medical status need homes as well, and don't have all the risks of a full-on rescue.

          There are plenty of ways to find a companion for your horse and help a horse in need, without having to get involved in contracts you don't like.
          added one small addition, SEE ALL CAPS in green, to this nearly perfect, imo, post.
          Last edited by Angela Freda; Dec. 3, 2018, 08:35 AM. Reason: to add color
          Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

          http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

          Comment


          • #6
            Not all rescues are created equal. Some are barely more than hoarders, and others are full retraining organizations where you are essentially buying a finished riding horse. The adoption fees for these may be very different, because you usually get what you pay for in one way or another.

            You should be doing the same background checks on them that they will do on you.

            And you should consider why you are looking to *rescue* a horse instead of buying one. When you get a horse from a reputable rescue, you are buying a horse. It's nice that they may have taken a horse out of a bad situation, but buying one from an owner may essentially be the same thing. Buying from an owner instead of them selling at auction....what's the difference, really?

            It does not make the horse *better* or make you *morally superior* to acquire one from a rescue organization. And, it may not be cheaper in the end. You might find the horse that matches your needs at a rescue or listed for sale. I would not confine my search to rescues only.

            Comment


            • #7
              Actually for a companion horse (something that is probably older/ unsound/ otherwise limited) I think the restrictions on ownership make sense. For a sound, healthy 6 year old OTTB that was just in the wrong place, yes I would want ownership.

              Comment


              • #8
                Go to any auction and I can guarantee you that you will find a horse in need of a soft landing. Let the fruitbats go flap in someone else's business with their crazy rules.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't know what area you are looking in, but just last month I adopted a lovely Morgan gelding from Solitude Morgan Horse Rescue in Stanardsville, VA. Wonderful people to work with. If horses are non-adoptable they go to the retirement field. All others are worked with and ridden; the minimum age for adoption is 3, so they can start under saddle first. My guy was rehabilitated and ridden 3 days a week by a very capable rider. I am positive they put far more dollars into him than I paid for him.
                  Last edited by Diamontaire; Dec. 3, 2018, 09:07 AM. Reason: ETA: think the adoptable age is actually 4

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There are easily accessible online auction companies that sell “slaughter truck” horses daily. You can ‘rescue’ direct from feed lot/slaughter truck dealer very easily.
                    "Friend" me !

                    http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There is a rescue near me that has restrictions I find very limiting. Horses are not allowed to be used for any shows( including 4H) or jumping. They also require 24 hour turnout, which is very rare in the area due to land. I think it's a great organisation, but there's a very small segment of the population that can meet those requirements.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by michu addams View Post
                        i was looking online at multiple horse rescues, based in the us mainland. i plan to move there sometime in the next year and a half and my horse will need some kind of companionship when we do. ive always wanted to rescue a horse, so this seemed like a reasonable solution. however as i was looking i realized that most of these places have insane rules about adopting! like pages and pages of detailed rules about the potential buyers/potential homes/potential everything! some of the rules i understand (like fencing must be safe, stalls must be a certain size, water has to be available at all times etc etc etc. I get that. but some of the rules were actually insane! for example: you can't adopt if you live more than 4 hours away. this presents a problem for me especially because when/if I move back home, that will be wayyyy more than 4 hours away. So what am I expected to do, give the horse back? Another from the same site: the horse cannot be "sold, loaned, leased, given away or traded". If the owner is "unable to comply" with these rules, then the horse MUST be returned to them at once. So getting a part-boarder for the horse (IF) i get busy (SOMETIME) in the very possible future then i have to also return the horse? it doesnt make sense to me. A common trend that i saw across multiple sites was that ownership would not be transferred EVER or it would be, after a substantial amount of time (like 5+ years). This just seems problematic to me for lots of reasons. the last thing was that some rescues required the adopter to send them weekly or bi-weekly detailed updates to them about the horse. No, just no. I just wanted to give a horse a good home, not sign away my privacy rights.

                        Sorry if this seems a little dramatic

                        What are your thoughts? do these rules seem too-much for you? would you still adopt a horse from any of them? am i overreacting? have you adopted a horse from a rescue like these before? general thoughts?
                        IMO the entire "rescue" model is deeply flawed.

                        Horses are property. They are "chattels," personal property. We don't "rescue" property we buy it or lease it. With real property we have lots of rules and some are quite restrictive. With personal property there are seldom rules on subsequent use or transfer.

                        We buy property, we adopt children. We can sell property, we can't "un-adopt" children.

                        The easy way to deal with this is don't deal with any organization that follows the sort of rules you find silly. The market is broad and there are all kinds of reasonable sellers. Promote sanity and reality by supporting them. Don't engage in the "dead hand" practices of post-sale control when you find you must sell a horse. And NEVER give these people any money unless you carefully "vet" the way they do business!

                        Some time back I was THE Large Animal Committee and VP for our county Humane Society. During that time we had some pretty good rules for both large and small animals. When some of our number wanted to exercise more "control" I was able to convince our leadership that such was a bad idea as if we assume the power of control then we also assume the duty to exercise that power. When they found out that meant hiring lawyers to draft strict, enforceable contracts and then paying lawyers $250/hr. to enforce those contracts more sober judgement prevailed. Sadly, in most "rescues" such sober thought is utterly lacking.

                        This NOT an endorsement of animal cruelty. Every state has laws on subject and they can vary widely. The level of enforcement can vary widely within a state. That is true of every element of criminal law. It's how things work.

                        Be a responsible husbandry-man with your horses and strive to deal with others of like mind. It makes life a lot more pleasant.

                        Good luck in your move here!

                        G.

                        P.S. Where are you moving from?
                        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think some rescues get increasingly protective in their contracts as they have horses that come back to them or that don’t make it back at all (e.g. they wind up in a kill pen and the original rescue doesn’t find out until too late). It’s a different setting, but the trainer that showed my guy in the Extreme Mustang Makeover took back two Trainer Incentive Program she had placed last year, I’m not sure how she found out they were in trouble, that were walking skeletons just a few months after she had placed them. Young, healthy horses, no excuses to not keep weight on them. They also lost a lot of the trust in people Stacy had worked so hard to give them. Another horse that was in my guy’s EMM with a different trainer is also with Stacy now (don’t know the whole story of why he is with Stacy and not with the original trainer, I assume vagaries of geography and the original trainer’s availability), who also was not being cared for and is a walking skeleton. Fortunately he seems to have simply been not fed as he seems to have kept the groundwork training and adorable personality, anyway. Stacy can’t try him out riding to see how much of that he kept, as he is so desperately thin now. Breaks my heart, and I only admired him watching his progress videos (this is a horse I would have bid on if I hadn’t been successful bidding on the horse I brought home). Since Stacy works with BLM horses she and other TIP/EMM trainers don’t have any direct control over placements and monitoring and taking horses back, but I can see is she were running an independent rescue she might well be inclined to start tightening the screws on what adopters can and can’t do with the horse, keeping them close enough to check on directly herself from time to time, etc.

                          Just to throw out there, a BLM mustang or burro could fit your bill, whether you are up for a wild one straight out of the corrals, a Mantle ranch horse, a prison program horse, a TIP horse, a horse out of the EMM competitions, or one of the many that turn up on the secondary market that are at risk. If you *adopt* from the BLM, there are some restrictions regarding fencing and trailers (that are less restrictive if you get a trained horse), and the BLM holds title for a year. In theory, the BLM can come by and check on the horse, but in practice this hardly ever happens. If you get a sale authority horse, you still have to meet the restrictions with fencing and such, and promise you don’t intend to sell the horse to slaughter or for rodeo roughstock, but other than that the horse is yours as soon as you hand over the check.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You don't need to adopt a rescue horse to save a horse, if that's what you're thinking. As others have pointed out, you can find many horses listed for sale on Facebook and Craig's List that are in desperate need of a better home. Just go buy one.

                            There are good rescues out there, run by reasonable people, with sensible policies. Unfortunately, they are greatly outnumbered by the batshit crazy ones. All too many are nothing more than hoarders masquerading as rescues.
                            "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                            that's even remotely true."

                            Homer Simpson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My take on this issue is exactly what G has written above.

                              There is no such thing as "rescue". There are people who are dealers in horseflesh, either high end dealers, or low end dealers, selling either expensive horses, or cheap horses. Their return policy will vary. All dealers tend to acquire horses for cheaper than they sell them. Good dealers represent their horses honestly, and have the horsemanship skill to portray their horses accurately to potential customers. Care and training may vary between dealers. Both low and high end dealers may provide you with a potentially successful horse for your needs, or the horse may lose value over time and in your care (which may or may not be your fault). You may lease a horse from someone else, either a paid lease, or a free lease, depending on the value and use of the horse. A horse dealer operation may or may not be profitable. Unprofitable horse dealers are those who either depend on donations from others, or have a sugar daddy of their own to finance the operation. The worst thing about "horse rescues" is that they tend to play on emotions, and are often run by hoarders, people who may have the best of intentions, but actually suffer from a "rescue complex", where they feel that rescuing a horse from a bad situation gives them a warm fuzzy feeling inside as the impetus. If you pay money for an animal, you should own it, and be responsible for that animal. No one can sell you an animal, and retain ownership of that animal. Don't sign any agreement that attempts to do this. If you use the services of a "rescue" as a source of a horse you want to have in your barn, there is a risk that things may not go well in the long run, unless you either have full ownership of the animal, or are leasing it from the previous owner. One or the other. Children are adopted, horses are bought and sold and leased.

                              There is no such thing as "horse rescue". Since the meat industry works on a quota basis, if you purchase a horse who would otherwise be going for meat (and congratulate yourself for "rescuing" it), the meat industry simply buys a different horse (who may have otherwise found a good home like yours) to make up the quota they must provide to keep their contract. The meat industry is driven by the desire of people in the world to eat meat, and keep carnivorous pets. The meat industry is not run to torture horses, or to clean up "bad breeding" decisions, or "overbreeding" horses. So, net "rescue" of horses is zero. You, the buyer, simply choose which horse goes for meat, and by buying one, YOU send another one in it's place. So, it is a good idea to simply buy the horse you want, for the price you want to pay, rather than let emotion rule your decisions. If you are looking to buy a cheap horse, many may be in a bad situation, and may need a better home than the one they are currently in in order to be healthy, happy and reach their potential. If you have good horsemanship and experience, you may be able to purchase such a horse for not a lot of money, and both you and the horse will benefit from the purchase.

                              If you go to a low end auction, or any source of cheap horses offered for sale, you must be able to look at a horse and identify one as a "meat horse". This is a horse who is not suitable for anything else, dangerous, unsound, crippled. It's difficult to do this, a horseman's heart goes out to such a horse, in pity. But this is probably not the horse you should buy, in your desire to make things better for this horse. Instead, look for a horse who is down on his luck and may currently have a low value, but who has potential for what you want him FOR, (whatever that might be) with the right care and training. In the long run, this will be the more successful horse for you. In this case, you will look back on this purchase and think what a "good deal" the purchase of this horse was.

                              Good luck in the search for your new horse.
                              www.cordovafarm.weebly.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The crazy restrictions are the reason that I won't adopt. I don't want to put time and effort into a horse that isn't actually mine. I will gladly "rescue" on my own and I have donated both money and time to rescues but when it comes to my personal horses- nope. I want to be the one to make the decisions on them.
                                "You'll never see yourself in the mirror with your eyes closed"

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Guilherme View Post

                                  IMO the entire "rescue" model is deeply flawed.

                                  Horses are property. They are "chattels," personal property. We don't "rescue" property we buy it or lease it. With real property we have lots of rules and some are quite restrictive. With personal property there are seldom rules on subsequent use or transfer.

                                  We buy property, we adopt children. We can sell property, we can't "un-adopt" children.

                                  Sure you can.

                                  The easy way to deal with this is don't deal with any organization that follows the sort of rules you find silly. The market is broad and there are all kinds of reasonable sellers. Promote sanity and reality by supporting them. Don't engage in the "dead hand" practices of post-sale control when you find you must sell a horse. And NEVER give these people any money unless you carefully "vet" the way they do business!

                                  Some time back I was THE Large Animal Committee and VP for our county Humane Society. During that time we had some pretty good rules for both large and small animals. When some of our number wanted to exercise more "control" I was able to convince our leadership that such was a bad idea as if we assume the power of control then we also assume the duty to exercise that power. When they found out that meant hiring lawyers to draft strict, enforceable contracts and then paying lawyers $250/hr. to enforce those contracts more sober judgement prevailed. Sadly, in most "rescues" such sober thought is utterly lacking.

                                  There's a 'thing' wherein the person who broke the contract pays the legal fees, most rescues I know of any repute who use good contracts also use that clause. Further a few have an attorney on their board or otherwise offering discounted or free representation.

                                  This NOT an endorsement of animal cruelty. Every state has laws on subject and they can vary widely. The level of enforcement can vary widely within a state. That is true of every element of criminal law. It's how things work.

                                  Be a responsible husbandry-man with your horses and strive to deal with others of like mind. It makes life a lot more pleasant.

                                  Good luck in your move here!

                                  G.

                                  P.S. Where are you moving from?

                                  Bottom line, there are lots of roads to Rome.


                                  NancyM please note that many rescues aren't buying and selling slaughter horses, but intaking animals who've been abused, neglected or their owners are seeking care for animals they can no longer care for or afford.
                                  Someone needs to do that work and often the SPCAs or Human Societies aren't equipped, capable or funded in order to do that kind of important work.

                                  As wards of these organizations, protecting them [and the emotional and financial investment made in them] is what contracts are for.
                                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                                  http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

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                                  • #18
                                    My mare was adopted. I get full ownership after 5 years. I'm not at all worried that they will take her away, as I honor the simple contract, and they have plenty of mouths to feed at any given time. Once a year for 5 years I have to fill out a simple form that any 5th grader could do, with basic vaccination and hoof care information. A vet must see the horse and sign the form, which I have her do when she comes in the spring for annual Coggins and health check. I send in a photo with the paperwork and that's it, done for another year. I do post updates on their forum when I feel like it. They adopt within a certain area but I know people have moved quite far away and taken their horses with them.

                                    After five years the horse is yours to sell, lease, etc. Many people return the horse to them if they can no longer care for it, but others have been sold, and some found for sale on Craigslist, not in the best shape, and the rescue attempts to buy them back. I would not adopt from a place that never transferred ownership, but 5 years is definitely doable for me.

                                    Don't let bad rescues give them all a bad reputation. But don't feel like it's your only option, especially if it doesn't suit your needs.

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                                    Last edited by cloudy18; Dec. 3, 2018, 12:37 PM.

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                                    • #19
                                      I think you might be misinterpreting the "within 4 hours" rule. I think that just means at the time of adoption, to facilitate them checking out your facility and references. You would be able to move and take the horse with you after the adoption has gone through. I also don't think a half lease would fall under the "...not sold, loaned, leased" rule. I think the intent there is that the horse would remain under your care and control, and not someone else's. That said, there are places with restrictive rules, and you'll have to decide what you can live with.

                                      I adopted two young ponies from Days End Farm Horse Rescue (several years apart). They have a distance requirement for adopters because they do a site visit. My horses are at home and things here aren't perfect, but they were most interested in the quality of my fencing and shelter, which is adequate. They require more than one visit with the horse before you apply to adopt it. They will turn over ownership of adopted horses after 2 years, which I think is pretty reasonable. At the 2 year mark, you have to fill out another form requesting ownership, then they sign off on it. During the two year period, it states that they will do annual checks on the animal, but in my experience, I got no follow-up on the first pony, and one extra visit for the second one. I don't think I'd adopt from somewhere that never turns over ownership. I'm not a horse flipper, and rarely sell one, but I'd like that to be my option, especially if I've increased the horse's value a lot. I have increased the value of both ponies a lot. One will stay with me forever, but the other one might be for sale when the kid outgrows her.

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                                      • #20
                                        I fostered a pony from a local branch of a national rescue. I eventually adopted. Their contract had some clauses that I couldn't agree to (one was that I was not allowed to put horse down without prior approval. No way am I going to track down someone at the rescue if the horse is in pain & needs to be euthanized). When I talked it over with the local rep she said "it was the national contract and we can't change it but honestly, we trust you and are not going to do anything to enforce these restrictions." I took them at their word and it all worked out fine.

                                        But I agree that you'll find lots and lots of horses in need of a soft landing. If you haven't already, look at the Giveaways forum here on COTH.

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