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Question about Vet School & Graduate School...does it matter where you go?

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
    I would see how you do on your tests.

    At least for law school the LSAT seemed to count MORE than the GPA in some circumstances (um...mine--sorry super hard workers). Schools are looking to have high average GPAs and test scores to publish so maybe you will luck out/rock it and get the top perctile score?

    Second, what happens if you take some undergrad classes over? Do they avg. the final grades or use the newest? Credit hours in undergrad might be cheaper.

    Why do you assume you will do so much better in grad school grade-wise? I'm not trying to pry, but I found the grad school competition (and grade curve) to be harder than college...3.0 to 3.5 is a really big difference.

    I would apply to more than one vet school and talk to more than one entrance person. I would also shoot the gal an email before signing up for more school...

    Good luck.

    Yep, those are more questions Im struggling to answer. Would it be more worth while for me to just re-take some of my undergrad classes? Or attempt the graduate work? I dont know.

    I really think if I can make it to the interview part, I can talk my way through why my undergrad GPA is not up to par. It has nothing to do with my ability (I probably really could have maintained a 3.5 or higher) but rather my lack of direction. A part of me always wanted to go to vet school, but it never seemed possible. I squandered in my req science classes because I really didnt see the point of doing some of the course work. To be quite honest, I was bitter that I couldnt take a year off to campaign my upper-level horse longer. I chose my undergrad program because it allowed me to keep her and still ride 5 days a week as well as maintain a part-time waitressing job to afford the horse. I did what I could to have descent grades, but was not driven enough to put any more effort in. I quite frankly did not want to be there the first 2.5 years and I am really ready to get out of there now. It is not a good fit for me and my GPA reflects my general lack of enjoyment in the place. My junior year was when I realized that being a vet is really all I will ever be happy doing. I hate sitting behind a desk, and I would much rather deal with people if horses and animals are around If I have to pay back enormous student loans, I would rather do it working with horses.

    I got a fantastic internship with an equine vet this summer which really sealed the deal. All I want to do is be a vet, it just took me 4 years to realize it.

    Now Im kind of screwed as far as getting my GPA up to par. I have all the classes (except one) but just nothing "flashy" in terms of grades. That organic chemistry gets you every time...

    My undergrad program is really limited to 4 years (only one or two students will stay past 4 years as it is a private school and very expensive) hence the reasoning that it might be better to move onto a graduate program in order to enhance my resume.

    If I chose to take any classes over, I would probably end up taking them over on a per-credit basis at WCU (local) or UDel. This brings me right back to the original question...is it worth it to re-take 3 or 4 classes or just get into the grad program--which would allow me to re-take the classes, plus potentially look better?

    Also talking to the majority of the vets in the practice, most of them re-took the GREs more than once and several of them applied to vet school 3 or 4 times. The majority of them have masters degrees...which they only did because they didnt get into vet school on the first try.

    Thanks again everyone for the continued help!!

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by confusedTB View Post
      Yep, those are more questions Im struggling to answer. Would it be more worth while for me to just re-take some of my undergrad classes? Or attempt the graduate work? I dont know.

      I really think if I can make it to the interview part, I can talk my way through why my undergrad GPA is not up to par. It has nothing to do with my ability (I probably really could have maintained a 3.5 or higher) but rather my lack of direction. A part of me always wanted to go to vet school, but it never seemed possible. I squandered in my req science classes because I really didnt see the point of doing some of the course work. To be quite honest, I was bitter that I couldnt take a year off to campaign my upper-level horse longer. I chose my undergrad program because it allowed me to keep her and still ride 5 days a week as well as maintain a part-time waitressing job to afford the horse. I did what I could to have descent grades, but was not driven enough to put any more effort in. I quite frankly did not want to be there the first 2.5 years and I am really ready to get out of there now. It is not a good fit for me and my GPA reflects my general lack of enjoyment in the place. My junior year was when I realized that being a vet is really all I will ever be happy doing. I hate sitting behind a desk, and I would much rather deal with people if horses and animals are around If I have to pay back enormous student loans, I would rather do it working with horses.

      I got a fantastic internship with an equine vet this summer which really sealed the deal. All I want to do is be a vet, it just took me 4 years to realize it.

      Now Im kind of screwed as far as getting my GPA up to par. I have all the classes (except one) but just nothing "flashy" in terms of grades. That organic chemistry gets you every time...

      My undergrad program is really limited to 4 years (only one or two students will stay past 4 years as it is a private school and very expensive) hence the reasoning that it might be better to move onto a graduate program in order to enhance my resume.

      If I chose to take any classes over, I would probably end up taking them over on a per-credit basis at WCU (local) or UDel. This brings me right back to the original question...is it worth it to re-take 3 or 4 classes or just get into the grad program--which would allow me to re-take the classes, plus potentially look better?

      Also talking to the majority of the vets in the practice, most of them re-took the GREs more than once and several of them applied to vet school 3 or 4 times. The majority of them have masters degrees...which they only did because they didnt get into vet school on the first try.

      Thanks again everyone for the continued help!!

      Again, you have to look at the specific schools you want to apply to, but in general, they will look at your GPA in required courses. If you do not have high grades in those, you need to retake them. Doing graduate work won't erase them!

      I'll tell you my story.... I was like you, not sure what I wanted and not committed to the school I attended... My overall GPA sucked! I was working 3 jobs , training horses and not really trying very hard in class.... When I decided to actually try to get into vet school, I transferred to a state school in the state I wanted to go to vet school and piled on the required classes. I concentrated on doing well and in 3 semesters finished all the prereqs and had a 4.0 at that school. During one talk with the admissions committee at my home state school, he looked at my transcripts and started laughing. He said "What happened?" I explained and he laughed again... I got into that school as well as the one I wanted (not my home state) and one other....

      With a 3.0 you are going to be in trouble, so you need to raise it somehow.... A masters with a 4.0 will help, but you'll still be haunted by low grades in required classes unless you repeat them. If your GRE scores are stellar, that will help as well.

      Take advantage of the admissions counselors, that IS their job. They will help you!

      Good Luck!
      Turn off the computer and go ride!

      Comment


      • #23
        Several of my fellow graduate students (in Animal Science) were getting Masters while they worked at getting into vet school. I think it worked for all of them .... they were rejected when they applied as undergrads. They got a MS and got in. In my case, I was at Texas A&M and all of the people I knew who were getting their MS to get into grad. school got into A&M's vet school.

        But I do agree with those who say pick your vet school (and a backup or two) and go talk to their admissions counselor. A few years ago, I got the insane idea that a BS, MS and PhD wasn't enough and that I also wanted DVM. I was set up to go talk to the admissions people to see what I needed... and then came to my senses.
        Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

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        Comment


        • #24
          In case you haven't already checked it out, I highly recommend the veterinary forums at the Student Doctor Forums. It's incredibly helpful and there are long threads of stats from admitted students so that you can really see what allows people to get into vet school.

          In general, I have heard that it is not the best idea to do graduate work just for the sake of doing graduate work in order to get into vet school. If you don't actually like doing research, you're probably going to hate doing your masters. I would look into doing a post-bac, either a formal program or on your own, as an alternative if you aren't 100% sure you want to research.

          Vet schools really value hours spent working in the field and they can definitely offset a more mediocre GPA. Some schools count your last 45 credit hour GPA just as much as they count your overall GPA, as they are looking for an upward trend (it's been a few years since I was applied to vet school, but I think that Penn is one of these schools). If you really want to be a large animal vet, getting some really good, unique veterinary experiences could help you out a lot. The FDA and USDA have internships that focus more on the regulatory aspects of production animals. It seems like there are fewer people in the northeast who have bovine experience than in other parts of the country so that could really end up setting you apart. If you really meant that you want to be an equine vet, not a large animal vet, you could still maybe do some cow stuff and push that angle

          I personally found that vet schools didn't care about GREs a ton, especially compared to how law schools and med schools view their respective standardized tests. But doing well will never hurt!

          As for which vet school you go to, as long as it's AVMA accredited it seems like most people won't care or even KNOW where you went to school (going the Ross/St George's route is more complicated). The distribution of vets from different schools is really geographically biased anyways. Different schools have different strengths and weaknesses. If you go into an internship and say you're from a certain school, the clinicians will probably know that you'll be good at a certain skill set and not so good at another. But everyone will have these strengths and weaknesses! I've really come to believe that minimizing debt is so much more important than the name on your diploma, especially if you're going into clinical medicine. Of course, I'm still in vet school and not in the job market yet, so I might be wrong but I have done quite a bit of research on the topic.

          Comment


          • #25
            Going to grad school doesn't necessarily "cost" money. Many science programs like biology or animal science pay your tuition, and even give you a small stipend to live off of. It's generally not enough to support owning/showing a horse, but it's enough to support a person.

            If you do go the grad school route, why not pick a program that you find useful and interesting? You might discover that you enjoy a certain field and pursue a career in that field instead of going to vet school. I'd advise against applying to masters programs simply to use them a stepping stone for vet school. This reasoning is generally a big turn-off to potential advisors.

            Another route would be to enroll in a university as a post-baccalaureate student while working at a vet clinic or a research lab. You can take classes to boost your science GPA while getting experience that looks good for vet school applications. I've worked with three students that have done this, and all were admitted to vet school after the first year. Two of them chose to go to vet school (Penn and Auburn) and one like working in the lab so much that they decided to go to grad school instead. Good luck!
            *Absolut Equestrian*

            "The plural of anecdote is not fact...except in the horse industry"

            Comment


            • #26
              I have not read all of the postings but I would also speak WITH the potential vet school you are seeking to possibly attend. Then you hear it from the "horse's mouth" so to speak.

              I live near Cornell, recently "ranked" as having the #1 vet school in the nation. Each vet school has it's plusses and minuses, and Cornell Vet school has a minues. At Cornell they not only chose from their own at a higher percentage rate but they also have agreement with other states universities to have "seats" for vet school admissions guaranteed coming from said state.

              On the home front, Cornell is still very dairy oriented, trust me on this one. Also, learning is not always hands on but more Theory. A few year ago I asked the new vet, a Cornell Vet School graduate, from the practice we use (as she was gelding one of our colts), how much practice Cornell vet students get in gelding horses. She paused and said "actually it's a lot of theory". In many other things I have asked her, her response has been pretty much the same.

              Last March I had a veteran Cornell Field vet at our place with 3 students. It was right when we got Opie. They were here for another boarder's horse. I asked the vet if she had a moment and wanted the students (who's eyes lit up), if they wanted to see Opie, our rescued colt who has scolosis. She said "no". The students just deflated.

              My point is the slick marketing campaign may not be what the reality is of any vet school. Take the time to visit the places and get the feel of it.

              Oh, BTW, the younger vet I mentioned above, had applied to Cornell and not accepted the first time BUT they offered her a job (her major was history with loads of animals science classes-go figure). The next year after working there she applied again and go in to Cornell's vet school.

              Comment


              • #27
                Another vote for finding out what undergraduate course may be holding you back. The daughter of a friend of mine is a graduate of one of those universities with a top vet school. She worked there in the vet school as a vet tech for nearly 10 years. When she applied, she did NOT get in because her GPA was 0.01 too low. One grade in one course. Years of vet tech experience coupled with years of horse experience counted for nothing.

                ETA - Organic chemistry is the reason I got out of pre-vet. I spent 20+ years of my life at the above mentioned school, between undergraduate, working as a research tech, and taking classes to move into IT and working in Extension. Great school but sometimes ....
                'Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.'
                - Pablo Picasso

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by scheherazadetbmare View Post

                  (yes a great vet can come from that school in the carribean but why chance it when I can have a vet who went to a great school and is board certified?)
                  Just for clarification here- I know an amazing vet who is getting boarded this year from a caribbean school. Many vets from overseas schools get get boarded.

                  I'm glad someone mentioned the application of theory, not hands on skills, at the #1 vet school in the country. The rankings are often heavily influenced by research, which does not always correlate with teaching students to be comfortable and experienced in the field. Caribbean vet schools are known to let in students with less than stellar GPA's and may not be book smart, but these students often have a plethora of life and clinical experience and, therefore, aren't afraid to work their tails off.

                  And OP, if you are already $200K in debt from undergrad, you may want to seriously reconsider vet school and esp. doing an additional degree for vet school. Most students I know are $200K in debt from vet school and can barely make it saddled with that debt. Double that would be downright dangerous, unless you plan on coming right out, deferring everything, and getting boarded in surgery or something. If you don't land a residency in your first year, it could be catastrophic trying to make the payments on that with an average vet's salary.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I used to work at the vet school at Ohio State and there were several women in our lab that were doing research Master's degrees in preparation for vet school. They all got in. Several other folks that worked there were trying to get into vet school as well. They all got in. Have you thought of trying to get a job as a technician at the vet school for a year or two? You'll get excellent references and real exposure to the field.

                    If you do decide to do an MS, I highly suggest you get a funded one. Check out job boards like: http://www.wfsc.tamu.edu/jobboard/index.htm and http://www.conbio.org/jobs/ (sorry, I only know wildlife sites, not sure if horse ones exist but check out the AAEP website).

                    Also look into programs that fund your vet school tuition: http://www.morrisanimalfoundation.or...-scholars.html Granted, these are highly competitive but if you do excellent research and are interested in research, they might be a way to go. Burroughs-Wellcome has a program, too, I think.

                    As far as paying back your student loans - there are several options that are income-contingent, and you may even qualify for early loan forgiveness: http://ibrinfo.org/

                    Good luck!

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      Thank you everyone!! All this information is very, very helpful, although its making my decision even more difficult. There is a lot to think about!!

                      Re: someone asked about my logic in entering a grad program without re-taking some of my req. science classes. (which would continue to be on my record me regardless of my masters degree) All the grad programs I am looking at so far (all are some variation of biology or animal sciences) would require/allow me to re-take the classes I need to boost my grade in--within the graduate program. So essentially I would be taking classes towards my masters as well as re-taking two or three of my undergrad classes. Hence the reason I thought going into a grad program would be a smart move (killing two birds with one stone?)

                      Blahhh its very confusing.

                      I think my plan so far is to finish up my senior year with the best grades I can manage. I will take that missing science course over the summer (and maybe one or two others that need to bump up to As) and try applying to my vet school of choice. Im also going to re-take the GREs. I did OK enough to get me into some grad schools, but not "stellar enough for vet school"--so thats on the list.

                      I did email the wonderfully helpful lady back and she recommended I schedule an appt with the admissions office to 'review' my application. From there I will decide if grad school is the route I should go, or if I should just re-take individual classes at my local university or if I should just submit my application and see what happens...

                      I really, really appreciate all the stories, suggestions, and advice. COTH is more helpful than my undergrad advisor! lol

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I'm a little confused as to why you would do vet school AND grad school. Usually a person just gets their undergrad degree from the college of their choice and then goes to vet school. Generally, you have a better chance of getting into a vet school in the same state where you did your undergrad work.

                        If for some reason, you do decide you want a separate graduate degree, grad school works much differently than undergrad programs. It didn't cost me anything because the project grant I worked under paid my tuition and my small teaching stipend. It's more like applying for a job really, you go where there are projects and funding.

                        And whoever said vet schools down south are not as good....well, that's just plain not true. Both NC State University and VA Tech have excellent, competitive vet programs and highly sought after surgical programs. UKy also has excellent equine veterinary facilities. So explore all your options, keep an open mind and remember that a school is often, in large part, what you make of it.
                        Life doesn't have perfect footing.

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                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I graduated with an undergrad degree from Penn State (Univ Park all 4 yrs) in '02. I started out as an Animal Science major, but switched after 3 semesters--NOT because I didn't like the program or did not now want to become a vet. I switched because I knew there was no way that I could get the required 3.5-3.8 GPA required to get into UPenn or VMRCM (VA Tech).

                          I was in the pre-vet club, and during my 2nd semester we took a trip to both UPenn and VMRCM, and talked to their admission directors and toured the facilities. Both schools were adamant about having a minimum 3.5 GPA if a student was coming from a large school (like Penn State) or a 3.7-3.8 if coming from a small private school. That was in addition to hundreds of hours of veterinary work, excellent recommendations, and a good GRE score. They said only occasionally will someone be so stellar that they will admit them if they have a GPA of 3.3-3.5, and hardly ever if the GPA is lower than 3.3.

                          You said you have talked to the admissions director of the vet school you are interested in...well, you need to do so again now that you know what your final GPA is looking like, and talk to her about what impact a graduate degree will, or will not, do for you, before you consider taking on more student loan debt. $200k is a pretty hefty amount. I graduated law school in May with 60% of that amount, and I'm already sweating about it. I can't imagine adding another $100k+ to your total, what with the return being so low for so many years right out of vet school, unless you can get a job for someone like the USDA who is desperate for large animal/cattle vets and will work to repay some of your vet school loans.
                          Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Just skimmed the other responses, but IME (I was on an admissions committe at a vet school for several years), you need to continue to talk to the admissions contact at the vet school you are most likely to get into - which would generally be where you are in-state. Then do what they tell you...

                            A MS is not a bad idea - if you're going to take additional courses (which you are to get your GPA up) you should at least be working towards a degree. You may not finish it, if you get in to vet school before the end of the MS program, but that's fine. You should do a master's wherever you have the best chance of getting A's. (Seriously.)

                            This is something that really frustrates me - the students who go to a challenging place for undergrad (and therefore might be better prepared for vet school) get penalized for not having better grades and might not get in. I wish there was a way to "adjust" the GPA of the applicant based on where they went, but that opens up a whole NEW can of worms. For example, the Ivy Leagues, with their stellar reputations, may have tons of grade inflation, while the honors program at a State University might not....hard to compare apples to oranges when you're on an admissions committee.

                            Good luck!

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              3.7-3.8 GPA to treat ANIMALS?????

                              I went to grad school in engineering...you know.....those people who design nuclear power plants.....all we needed was a 3.0GPA.

                              No wonder there is a shortage of large animal vets!!!
                              Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                              Alfred A. Montapert

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I'd suggest going for a Master's in Public Health. Some of the coursework will relate to vet school. It will also allow for a host of career options once you have your DVM as well.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Can you apply to grad school at the same school as the vet school you want to get into? That might be worthwhile, especially if you can get into a related program! This might provide connections that can help.

                                  Also, I don't know of this is an option back east, but some of the universities here in CA have horse boarding on campus for students (UC Davis for example). I have no idea what the cost is.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Also, colleges and universities like to have out of state students because it makes them look good. I went to grad school out of state on purpose, because I thought I would have a better chance of getting my tuition paid. I was right. My tuition was covered and I had a research assistant position both years. The in-state schools I applied to did not offer me any financial assistance.

                                    And while my GPA was awesome, my GRE scores sucked!

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by farmgirl88 View Post
                                      i just graduated with my bachelors in animal science and turned down vet school and grad school.
                                      I don't understand why you would go through all the hard work (taking the GRE, GRE bio, or, in some cases, the MCAT; applying and interviewing; getting your references and personal letter together; etc., etc.) and the expense of applying to graduate programs, only to get accepted and then turn them down! Whatever your reasoning, you should still be very proud of yourself: Vet schools are highly competitive, as I am sure you know, and for you to have been accepted, even though you ultimately turned their offer down, this is quite an accomplishment. Congratulations!

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Once again, Thanks so much for the help!! I really, really appreciate it!!!!


                                        Originally posted by newhorsemommy View Post
                                        Can you apply to grad school at the same school as the vet school you want to get into? That might be worthwhile, especially if you can get into a related program! This might provide connections that can help.
                                        .
                                        Unfortunately at this point in time (it may change as my research intensifies) my #1 is UPenn Vet School which has an equally difficult graduate program (in terms of entrance req's). I believe their bio grad program is nationally ranked and requires *shocker* a 3.5 GPA for application consideration.

                                        Regarding $$, I am not actually $200k in debt (yet lol). My wonderfully supportive parents paid for my undergrad degree. However, I have not officially sat them down and explained the grad route/vet route. I think they would try their hardest to help me out, but in reality, I think both would land mostly on my shoulders. Although do-able (the small grad program Im looking at is super cheap and does offer a stipend for teaching and research), still a stretch.

                                        The grad program Im looking at does also offer a part-time route for the first two years. This would allow me to keep my waitressing job and work off as much tuition as possible so I dont bring any debt into vet school, but again that comes back to putting my full effort into the classes. Working 30 hours a week and supporting a graduate program is going to stretch me thin.

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                                        • #40
                                          Confused-talk to the people at the Army Veterinary Corps since you get a signing bonus, and they pay for grad school. You might get considered for your top pick if you have total financing through the Army program. You also need to talk about the service period required, but it would be a great way to pay for school, get a stipend to live on, and get professional experience before you go out on your own. They do have large animals at Fort Myer, in Arlington VA, and other locations too. It is a way to consider if you do the research and find out if it's a good fit for you. The Air Force and Navy probably have Vets also, but if you are interested in large equines the Army probably has more.

                                          http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/vet/index.jsp here's the link to the recruiters.
                                          You can't fix stupid-Ron White

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