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  • Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by chai View Post
    I have had boarders and I work in TR, although I am not a drug counselor. I think you have an interesting idea, but I think it is more than one person could handle alone. Each of the businesses you are considering could support a full time employee, not just one person to do both jobs.
    Thank you. That is the goal. This person will likely start out wearing several hats, until we have more than 2-4 horses, and more than 1-2 other people in the house. Then there will definitely be more help and also the person will be able to sort of choose (to a certain extent) the role they want to play as the program progresses.

    Munchingonhay, I totally agree that this person will not have much of a life. At least not at first. This is my main concern. This is why there will be a somewhat flexible schedule, and generous vacation. They will have their own space on a separate floor of the house, which will hopefully help. But I have told my BF the same thing, that the house may begin to feel like a prison to them. We will try very hard to communicate expectations in the beginning, and keep lines of communication open so that everyone can remain happy with the situation. Finding good stable (pardon the pun ) help is a challenge to begin with, so I rather think this may be like looking for a unicorn in my bathtub.

    Comment


    • #22
      Is this the same farm that you posted about a few days ago, as being under contract to your BF?

      Have you actually seen any of the paperwork your BF has been talking about?
      ...somewhere between the talent and the potato....

      Comment


      • #23
        Phew! I'm sorry, but putting healthy normal people around a bunch of druggies with money doesn't sound like a good thing. No matter how wonderful the barn might be, druggies have druggie fairly lowlife/criminal friends (it's kind've who they buy their drugs from)...I hear people complain about the lowlife boyfriends of their female barn help...think of the fun of druggies in the mix.

        I'm sorry, but I don't know anyone who'd board around your target audience. They sure wouldn't want their kids around these types of people. I have no sympathy for druggies, less than none. Don't want to be around them in any shape or form.

        Just make sure to let everyone know what they're around when you advertise for boarders.
        "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #24
          Originally posted by Anselcat View Post
          Is this the same farm that you posted about a few days ago, as being under contract to your BF?

          Have you actually seen any of the paperwork your BF has been talking about?
          Yes same farm. And as far as the paperwork goes, yes, I have seen it as well as helped to fill it out and do research for some of the various things that are needed for this. He already owns 2 other businesses so he is not clueless when it comes to starting his own business. This has been a lot of work and comes from his personal experiences with his own brother.

          Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful responses. There is a lot to think about and yes, we are being very open with everyone who is interested in boarding there. So far most people have been very understanding since almost everyone I know has been touched by substance abuse in some form.

          Comment


          • #25
            Could you not handle the equestrian facility and the residential program separate, even separate entrances, since you say they are far apart?

            The residents you want to interact with the horses can then go over, but it won't be all part of the same operation.

            This way there won't or should not be direct operational overlap and all these questions.

            Comment


            • #26
              I will add that just on the house mother front, I think your expectations of having just one person to do the job are a little unrealistic. It's essentially a 24-hour job if the person is living in the house - what are they going to do if something goes wrong at 2am, say 'sorry, not on the clock right now'?

              I worked as a personal care provider for someone who was severely disabled who absolutely NEEDED 24/7 care and in order to make that happen realistically we needed 4-6 people just to fill one 'slot' in the rotation - two people would be 'on duty' for a week, during which they'd each take 12 hours of each day (with the understanding that they were 'on call' if something unusual happened and extra hands were needed.) Then they'd both get a week off and two other people would come in to do the same thing. In addition, we tried to have a 'day' person come in during the day a few times a week to lend an extra set of hands so that the 'on call' person during the day didn't have to be called in from sleeping or relaxing just to run errands or whatever.

              That was just about the bare minimum that would 'work', too, without anyone burning out or just getting too tired to function. Ideally we would have had more people, due to the depth of the individual's needs. (And yes, just ONE individual, in a private home in the community.)

              Obviously caring for someone who is severely disabled is probably a bit more hands-on all the time than being house mother for presumably otherwise healthy people going through rehab, but once you throw the horses in there the responsibility and number of duties goes right up again. (I know if I was looking at an ad for that kind of job, based on what I know from past experience, one of the first things I'd ask would be 'how much vacation do I get and how does that work out?' - because with a job like that you absolutely NEED time away from things for your own mental health, and it can be extremely tricky to arrange for covering care to allow for that vacation, meaning that even if you in theory have vacation time to take, you can't actually take it because there's no one to look after the horses/make sure the house doesn't burn down while you're gone.)

              I would also look at the health and safety regulations for your area to see what the rules actually are for the number of hours someone can work in a row. (The set up I mentioned actually was not in compliance with the health and safety regs, but we got away with it because he was an individual employer and as such there was some clause or another where he was allowed to ask employees to waive the normal hourly regulations or something like that. It's been a while, so I forget the exact ins and outs of the legal situation.)

              Plus, you need to consider where any nursing care is coming from - many agencies also have fairly strict rules about how, when, and where their nurses can provide care, and what amenities need to be available for them if they're expected to stay on the property.

              In short, frankly, if I was considering this kind of set up, I'd just hire two people from the start - one for the house, one for the horses. The person handling the horse issues may not need to live on site, if it's adequate that the person who is on site (the house mom) can call if something seems to be wrong - the stable being on fire, for example, or a loose horse.

              Comment


              • #27
                I think I might suggest going in the opposite direction.
                I'd look to find a barn worker/manager who was also
                willing to do some house management and try to
                minimize the house aspect. For example, you could get
                a personal chef type person in to prepare meals and
                put them in the freezer so that all that had to be done
                was select entrees and heat them. You can certainly
                get a service that will supply linens and towels fresh
                daily or weekly and easily find someone to come and
                do cleaning if that is too much. Basically, I am suggesting
                limiting the household effort to management (assuring
                that the people and resources are in place and doing what
                needs to be done) and allow that person to put more of
                their actual work time into barn management and work.

                As others have suggested, I would not ask this worker to
                interact with patients at all beyond civility. It seems to
                me it would be a lot easier to hire pieces of housekeeping
                activities than to hire management and horse care. I also
                would not ask this person to drive patients anywhere.
                Robin from Dancing Horse Hill
                Elmwood, Wisconsin

                Comment


                • #28
                  A realistic suggestion

                  Well, my life experience makes me less skeptical of the plan and recovering addicts than most others I have seen post here so far.

                  I suggest that you hire a person who is "in recovery," preferably in a 12-step program. Whether or not AA or NA is part of your treatment plan, those programs to be the thing that help people stay on track when they leave rehab and go back into the "real world."

                  And someone with the clean-time/sobriety you want will be good at this particular job but they will also realize that this it is two-person job. The "no life" part of the job especially is a recipe for burn-out. Not enough pay may keep someone from staying for a long time, but that's pretty typical of this kind of position. Some people get into counseling or jobs like yours requiring less formal training as part of their really serious, thorough recovery. Clients usually like and respect these folks because they have been in their shoes and now "walk the walk."

                  Just remember that all kinds of people become addicts and addicts in recovery-- even bankers, even welders, even surgeons, even horsemen. There's no reason to think that you can't find someone with the skill set you want. In your spot, I'd put the word out with local psychotherapists who do equine-assisted therapy. They might connect to the right network of people whether that's someone on the treatment end with horse knowledge or a long-time client who is interested in your kind of job.

                  Will your place do initial detox or is this a second-stage center? Either way, the other posters are absolutely right about being scrupulous with horse meds. Should adult boarders be worried? Not if they are informed, IMO.

                  Besides... y'all may *already have* addicts and alcoholics in your barns!

                  ETA-- on second thought, this really IS a two-person job and you might need a separate cottage for your 24/7 staff. Living with addicts is like a giant "12th-step call"-- the visit to the person who is just beginning recovery and may or may not be willing to try or be honest. 12-step programs recommend that this is never done alone as it places the clean/sober person at serious risk for getting sucked back in. You also need two people so that one can call 911 and supervise the very sick, very wealthy horse-owning chick who just drank bleach.
                  The armchair saddler
                  Politically Pro-Cat

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    If I didn't have 2 children I would actually consider this. Sounds "doable" as long as you are willing to hire more ppl when you get larger and if the pay is reasonable to the job.
                    Draumr Hesta Farm
                    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                    Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Sorry if I missed something, I skimmed a few posts. Having a secondary boarding business on a drug/alcohol rehab facility sounds crazy to me. Why the boarding biz? A high-end rehab seems like something that has the potential to print money. Why stick something as dicey and unprofitable as a boarding barn onto one side? Just because there are barns there?

                      And it seems unreasonable to hope to hire limited staff while believing that there will be zero uncontrolled contact between the residents and the barn. You need X amount of staff to monitor X amount of residents. I have a niece in a group home for disabled adults; these are people who are far less motivated to take off than an addict might be, and they've got several staff members living at the house full-time to keep track of them.

                      I really don't get the vibe that the OP's boyfriend has a fantastic business plan in place here.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        As a professional healthcare worker who currently works in a hospital with psych/rehab patients, I also see this as being a difficult proposition to make work. It seems you are coming at this from a position of wanting a horse person who will also work with patients. I suggest you look for the opposite, a healthcare worker who also has experience with horses. I'm sure there are lots of nurses out there who ride/have horses. I bet one of them would love a job that let them care for horses part time and then do patient care the remaining time. I would not have a lay person who has no experience with addicts doing anything with them one on one or even for any extended periods of time. If you and/or your BF has any experience with addicts, you know their powers of manipulation are usually second to none. Especially with money at their disposal.

                        Caitlin
                        Caitlin
                        *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                        http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by RedMare01 View Post
                          As a professional healthcare worker who currently works in a hospital with psych/rehab patients, I also see this as being a difficult proposition to make work. It seems you are coming at this from a position of wanting a horse person who will also work with patients. I suggest you look for the opposite, a healthcare worker who also has experience with horses.
                          I would honestly even restrict "experience" with horses to "interest" in horses - basically you don't want someone who is going to run screaming away from horses and the countryside. Someone interested enough that they'd be willing to learn enough to do a 'night check' type thing where they made sure no one was suddenly bleeding from any new gaping wounds and they all had water and so on would be a bonus. (I would expect, however, that if there was an actual problem, there would be someone else available for them to call to come resolve it - you can't expect the house mother to be up all night with a horse issue and then be functional the next day to do house duties.)

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            I haven't read all the posts, I apologize if I'm repeating anything said, but I just wanted to share my experiences.... I'm currently living in a company owned house, I have 4 teenage foster sons (younger than your target area but somewhat the same idea) with a wide range of difficulties.

                            I am responsible for ALL aspects of their care, both mentally and physically, I take them to doctor appointments/ school appointments (again, a bit different)/ counseling appointments/ I teach life skills, I process with them through issues and difficulties etc... not to mention doing all the extra curricular entertainment stuff.

                            I'll be honest, there is NO time in my day/night, to take care of these 4 kids (they can all be left home alone, they are, for the most part, self sufficient teenagers) and find time to get to the barn and ride never mind having to take care of the actual barn chores/ride/ensure horses are healthy etc....

                            And a life outside of work? Nope, I don't have one, I hardly see my friends/family and like I said I haven't ridden a horse in over a month.... I get 4 days off a month but even then I am still "on-call".

                            Good luck, I hope things work out, but I'd definitely look at keeping the rehab and the horse facilities very separate. If you are serious about integrating them, I hope the person who will be doing both will be very very very well paid as money is about the best motivator there is for working 24/7 and having no life Again Good Luck

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              So if a horse colics while someone needs to go to town or there is a crises in the Rehab...which takes priority???

                              Do not try to fill all the holes with one plug, life doesn't work all neat n tidy.

                              Hire proper barn help.

                              Hire a house manager who is horse savey.

                              Better yet hire a COUPLE..................

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                The funny thing is that I know someone who would be perfect for this job, though she probably wouldn't actually take it Has a Masters in Psych, experience working at drug/alcohol rehab centers, and also does barn work and cares for horses. The thing is, she has decided that she prefers a more bohemian lifestyle and flits between working several part time jobs at a time. I think if she had to work a 50 hour week all in one place her head would explode.

                                But if there's one person out there with the qualifications, perhaps there are others.
                                Flickr

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  mvp,

                                  thanks, it seems like you get it. We definitely realize that this is not the job for everyone. Also, something I haven't mentioned, there WILL be a person on duty in the evenings and overnight that will be covering minor details if necessary. So even though the person we are looking for will be living on site, their time off will realistically be REAL time off. Also, my BF will be living on site for the first 6 months minimum to assist and reorganize as necessary.

                                  The people he has already put in place (director, doctors, nurses) are experienced and skilled in rehab, which should greatly limit the amount of contact this employee would have with residents.

                                  For those that think this hasn't been well thought out, I assure you that the rehab part of this business is COMPLETELY accounted for. I may not know the minute details, but my BF is a very savvy and successful businessman. The boarding part is not to be a real source of income. If it breaks even, it's good. It's more to give someone an opportunity to create a business (if one exists) there, and if not, I have a place to keep my horses and hopefully a few friends who want to keep their horses with me and ride together.

                                  Anyway, lots of things to consider. Caring for 4 horses is not a full time job, and I think we were hoping that we could compensate w/ other responsibilities. Living in what basically equates to a mansion with free meals and free board plus roughly $500 a week in pay didn't seem like such a hardship. The right person probably exists for this, so hopefully we will be able to find someone.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by judybigredpony View Post
                                    So if a horse colics while someone needs to go to town or there is a crises in the Rehab...which takes priority???

                                    Do not try to fill all the holes with one plug, life doesn't work all neat n tidy.

                                    Hire proper barn help.

                                    Hire a house manager who is horse savey.

                                    Better yet hire a COUPLE..................
                                    While this is a somewhat valid point, what happens if my horse colics at 3am and no one is around? No boarding stable offers 24/7 care, at least not at a reasonable cost. I'm sorry, I just don't buy this argument. Obviously emergencies take precedence, and as I have already stated, there will be other people on site or on call who can step in if such a situation will occur.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Shoot, I could do this job, I have advanced degrees in psych, have worked extensively in drug rehab inpatient and outpatient and I currently run a successful lesson program. However, you'd have to pay me a million dollars to get me to take on that much responsibility. It is way too much for one person to do on a physical level. If I did take this job I'd burn out within a month. Way too much ethical, emotional and psychological responsibility for one person to handle.

                                      Nor would I board at a place that had drug offenders. Noooo way am I exposing my horses to what I have seen go on even at high end facilities (and I worked at one of the highest end in the country for two years).

                                      Sorry to be a downer. I'd focus on the drug rehab (a needed service) and have a few horses for your patients to do some hippotherapy with but that's it. Just the cost of insurance for your situation is going to make your eyes bleed.
                                      glimmerling


                                      Member Appaloosa lovers clique

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        I know someone who would be perfect for this position as well, and there is no way that person would take the job. There is too much being asked.

                                        While caring for four horses may not be a full time job, starting a horse business is.

                                        If both the boarding facility and rehab situation are intended to be "very high end", you are looking at far more than a full time job.

                                        If the intent is to be so high end and ability to compensate generously is not in question, what is the point of having only one person? I cannot see how it saves any headaches, only creates them. Finding the perfect individual- a person who not only has the necessary skill set and mentality but is willing to take and KEEP the position and perform to high standards- will be a long, difficult and probably fruitless search. Finding two individuals who are perfect for EACH position would be considerably less difficult, result in better performance and fewer time conflicts, and shouldn't cost much more pay wise. Depending on the area of the country you are in, you may find a willing, qualified and eager horse person who would be happy to care for four in exchange for free board and a small weekly check, or living accommodations.

                                        You would make this much less complicated by opening it up to two positions. It doesn't have to be a "bunch of part timers". It's not just the physical expectations, which are tremendous; it's the stress and mental toll. Spreading the load amongst two employees will go a long way to ensure high-end performance.
                                        bar.ka think u al.l. susp.ect
                                        free bar.ka and tidy rabbit

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Rubyfree View Post
                                          If the intent is to be so high end and ability to compensate generously is not in question, what is the point of having only one person? I cannot see how it saves any headaches, only creates them. Finding the perfect individual- a person who not only has the necessary skill set and mentality but is willing to take and KEEP the position and perform to high standards- will be a long, difficult and probably fruitless search. Finding two individuals who are perfect for EACH position would be considerably less difficult, result in better performance and fewer time conflicts, and shouldn't cost much more pay wise. Depending on the area of the country you are in, you may find a willing, qualified and eager horse person who would be happy to care for four in exchange for free board and a small weekly check, or living accommodations.

                                          You would make this much less complicated by opening it up to two positions. It doesn't have to be a "bunch of part timers". It's not just the physical expectations, which are tremendous; it's the stress and mental toll. Spreading the load amongst two employees will go a long way to ensure high-end performance.
                                          This. So much this.

                                          And honestly, I would not count on the time 'off-duty' being the same as actual legitimate time OFF (as in, where you leave your work at work and can go do whatever) if the person is still living on site where most of the action is taking place. My reason is that most of the people I can think of who would be responsible enough for the kind of position you have in mind are going to have a very hard time mentally detaching from that sense of responsibility while it's right there in front of them - even if someone else is there doing 'their job'.

                                          There is a reason why, even though most of the care providers I mentioned were officially 'live in' (had rooms provided free, space in the kitchen, etc.) they rarely stayed in the house on their week off. They just mentally needed to get away. Given the potential psychological stress of dealing with people going through rehab, I suspect that anyone in a live-in capacity at a rehab facility will feel the same way.

                                          I'm not trying to be a downer - just pointing out that for something to be successful long term, you NEED to take the mental and physical health of your employees into consideration - particularly someone who you'd really want to be in place long term for stability, like someone working as a 'house mother.' I think trying to put too many jobs under one label is a great way to not only burn someone out, but then make life difficult for yourself when you need to find a replacement.

                                          This really has nothing to do with the fact that it's a rehab program in particular- I'm not anti-rehab or think that all drug addicts are horrible people or anything like that. This is just based on my own personal practical experience as a care provider and care manager for ten years. It's stressful. There's no way around that. By the sounds of it, so is being a barn manager for a high-end facility. Someone might be able to deal with that combined stress short term, but long term? Not realistic or, imo, ethical to ask that of someone.

                                          Simplify.

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