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Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

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Horse rescue scammed...

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
    Many rescues have an open door policy on returning the horse (but no refund of price or "adoption fee"). But if the buyer sells the horse or breeds the horse, what rescue is going to retain a lawyer for $2000 minimum to take this through civil court and seek damages?

    Most horses that end up at rescues have little current market value, and some have little use value as well. Someone selling or giving away or euthanizing a horse they got from a rescue probably doesn't rank very high as a scam, since there's probably no profit at all.

    It's more likely, life just happens.
    This. And this is not a "scam" - as you say.

    For the most part, this type of wording in a contract keeps the tire kickers and meat buyers away. In theory, legal action could be taken.

    In most situations, though, the rescue organization does not (and can not) keep track of every animal it rescues and places....nor do they want to. If they really wanted to maintain final control of the animal, their organizational mission should be a sanctuary and not a rescue/placing organization. They exist, but obviously they are expensive to maintain.

    If this "rescue organization" is a real organization - they should understand the limitations of their contracts and have a plan in place through which to pursue legal action - if necessary.

    - How would they maintain contact with all owners, throughout their lives?
    - When, why, and how - would they reclaim a horse.
    - Where would they house a reclaimed horse.
    - How would they pay for the legal proceedings, transport, and board for reclaimed horses.

    Etc. If the rescue hasn't put this type of plan together, the horse(s) may be better off with their new homes, than the rescue itself. As we all know, keeping horses ain't cheap.

    Comment


    • #22
      A lot depends on the wording of the contract and their ability to enforce it.

      That said, even when situations like this go to court, it may not be terribly enforceable, and if there is a judgement against the adopter it may simply be a monetary judgement and the horse may not necessarily be returned.

      "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

      My CANTER blog.

      Comment


      • #23
        horselvr77 should just change their name to Scammed as it sure appears to be their only line of thought

        Comment


        • #24
          Can we report this user for spamming the boards with these stories? Moderator 1
          Veni vidi vici. With a paint pony, nonetheless.

          Comment


          • #25
            Everyone just hold their horses here, rescues or otherwise. I’m all out of guac and boxed wine. BRB.
            Frost Bite Falls

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Frostbitten View Post
              Everyone just hold their horses here, rescues or otherwise. I’m all out of guac and boxed wine. BRB.
              you can order it online for 2 hour home delivery at Walmart, at least you can here

              https://grocery.walmart.com/search/?query=wine%20boxed

              Comment


              • #27
                Oh Yippee!!!! this thread brightens this dreary day a little bit...I am feeling like a nice red blend and some brocolli chicken alfredo...OP phhhuulllleeeeezzz a little more effort to keep this entertaining Arelle noooo don't spoil everyone else's little bit of fun. I was scammed, by a major pharmaceutical company...took their medication last night...still coughed in the wee hours of the morning and am still sick now!!! please watch for updates with a link to my Go F Me page...

                Comment


                • #28
                  We're waiting for the class-action lawsuit ad against toilet paper companies for dingleberries.

                  OP - There's some good advice here. It's up to your rescue friends to decide how to proceed. Do share the WalMart link with them.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by clanter View Post

                    you can order it online for 2 hour home delivery at Walmart, at least you can here

                    https://grocery.walmart.com/search/?query=wine%20boxed
                    How would you know that?
                    Do we need to stage an intervention?
                    3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081 284811174502841027019385.....

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I wish COTH poster cowgirljenn could chime in but she's busy running Bluebonnet Horse Rescue. I do know that many rescues allow adopters to lease out the animal. The contract's policy may be worded as a gray area so that the rescue agency can judge the suitability of the lease/loan situation on a case-by-case basis.

                      The OP/friend is obviously quite passionate about their horses. Could this perhaps be the then 26 yr old TB gelding she had years back? Maybe she just wants to visit him or learn what happened to him.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Back on topic, I actually know of several *rescue* places that are happy to adopt you a horse out with future view of it being returned to useful equestrian society and sold into a useful home, infact some exist just to do that.

                        Rescues are there as a safety net for a horse thats found itself in a bad situation, and they react to the situation (not the horse per se)
                        Most that I know would be thrilled that one they pulled off the meat truck was rehabbed and sold on as a school pony, or to someone doing 2'6 hunters. Rescues exist for the stories like that, that is their difference made right there.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          Originally posted by Bogie View Post
                          Yes, in this situation the rescue would need to hire a lawyer. Much will depend on the contract that the adopter signed.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                            If you sell that which does not belong to you then that's theft. That warrants a call to the sheriff, not a post on web discussion group. If the sheriff does not find theft then the remedy is civil suit against the thief for the value of the horse.

                            Some problems really are relatively easy to handle!

                            G.
                            Thanks for the reply. The horse has not been located yet.

                            And I appreciate all the replies that do not run down such a serious thread. And to those who think this is a joke, who think people do not get scammed in the horse world, you may find out one day when it comes around to you (because of the mean comments directed at those victims).

                            I will follow the story of this rescue and hope the horse is found. These people put their HEART and SOUL into this.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              It's my understanding that most of these return to rescue clauses are unenforceable in many states after a certain amount of time has passed, like two years? IE you cannot sell something and then expect to keep control over it indefinitely. I don't think that is legally feasible.

                              As mentioned above, the only way to do that is to keep the animal.
                              Let me apologize in advance.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by horselvr77 View Post

                                Thanks for the reply. The horse has not been located yet.

                                And I appreciate all the replies that do not run down such a serious thread. And to those who think this is a joke, who think people do not get scammed in the horse world, you may find out one day when it comes around to you (because of the mean comments directed at those victims).

                                I will follow the story of this rescue and hope the horse is found. These people put their HEART and SOUL into this.
                                I don't think this is a joke, but I don't think it's a scam either. This is a common result of animal "adoptions" because in general, the contracts aren't really enforceable....you either own the animal, or you don't. Most animals (all animals?) are considered property - so the property has to belong to someone - and just because they have an adoption "contract" doesn't mean it is a legally binding agreement.

                                How long ago was the horse placed? If it was 3 months or so it might be more likely to be able to enforce the contract, versus 3 years.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Based on this and previous threads, I don’t think the OP has a firm
                                  grasp of what “scammed” means.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I agree. I think the OP has a long way to go before she has a good understanding of what "scammed" means. My personal opinion is a rescue which tries to get horses back after they are placed in a good home is a scammer. Putting that kind of clause in the adoption paperwork is a scam. Its a way to get the horse back and keep control over it and make more money on it again, as some one already pointed out. I think its jaw droppingly ballsy for the "rescue" to get someone else to pay for the expenses of a horse but think they can retain ownership of it.
                                    My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Ambitious Kate View Post
                                      My personal opinion is a rescue which tries to get horses back after they are placed in a good home is a scammer. Putting that kind of clause in the adoption paperwork is a scam. Its a way to get the horse back and keep control over it and make more money on it again, as some one already pointed out. I think its jaw droppingly ballsy for the "rescue" to get someone else to pay for the expenses of a horse but think they can retain ownership of it.
                                      I think it is up to the adopter to read the terms of the contract with the rescue. If you(g) don't like that the rescue retains ownership and that the horse must come back to them if you no longer want it then do not adopt from that rescue. Many rescues have the adoption paperwork on their website to view before going to see the horse.

                                      In a lot of ways the terms of some rescue adoption contracts it isn't really an adoption as much as a permanent lease. The intial price is basically a one time upfront lease fee instead of a yearly lease fee. It then becomes a care lease/free lease.

                                      If the adopter does not want to have to return the horse when they no longer want the horse then don't adopt from a rescue that has those requirements. There are other rescues that either don't retain ownership or don't retain ownership for more than 1 or 2 years. Go adopt from those rescues or go and buy a horse outright from somebody. If you (g) don't like the terms of the contract and won't be willing to abide by them then don't adopt through that organization.

                                      Is it ballsy of me to free lease my horse to somebody and retain ownership of that horse? How about if I require a one time upfront lease fee and no lease fee after that? I still own the horse. The person leasing the horse can't sell my horse or give my horse away. It is still my horse. Why is that different for an individual owner versus a rescue organization?

                                      With an adoption from a good rescue frequently comes the peace of mind that they will take the horse back at any time. You don't get that additional protection from a sale. That additional protection comes at a price and that price is that you as the adopter don't really own the animal the rescue does.


                                      Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by SonnysMom View Post
                                        Is it ballsy of me to free lease my horse to somebody and retain ownership of that horse? How about if I require a one time upfront lease fee and no lease fee after that? I still own the horse. The person leasing the horse can't sell my horse or give my horse away. It is still my horse. Why is that different for an individual owner versus a rescue organization?
                                        Well, in theory, yes. But as I mentioned early in this thread - it requires a method to monitor and track the animals and have a policy and procedure in place for taking it back - under what circumstances, how to do it, where to house it, etc. I think that many rescues don't actually have the resources to do those things, and use the terms as an empty threat.

                                        For example - what if the adoptive home/lessee falls on hard times, or no longer wants to keep horses - will they take the horse back? How hard is it for the lessee to quit the terms of the "lease"?

                                        But you are definitely right that if you don't read the contract before you take the animal...you have no one to blame if you don't like the terms.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I got two horses (Paint mare and mixed breed pony gelding) from a rescue in Colorado in 2003. The contract had the clause that the rescue would monitor the horses and take them back if there was neglect. The mare I got from them had actually been taken back from someone who thought she could live on a small, non irrigated pasture in Colorado without supplementary hay. She was very thin when we got her, but we got weight on her and she did well from then on, in spite of being a hard keeper.

                                          When the rescue delivered the two horses, they looked around my place and said they were very comfortable with us. I guess they must really have been good with us, because after delivery, I never heard from them again.

                                          The slightly troublesome part of the contract was that they would not provide brand inspection until some months had passed (maybe six? I don't remember for sure). I totally forgot about it, many years passed, and when I found I needed a brand inspection last year for the pony in order to move him across country, I could not track them down. All I had to do was write a letter to the brand inspector detailing the circumstances, and he did my brand inspection with no problem. Given that 14 years had passed by then with no contact, I didn't worry too much that I wasn't able to track these people down.

                                          The mare is long since deceased (had to be put down at a very advanced age, well into her 30s) but the pony is still with me, happy to be retired in a warm climate.

                                          Rebecca

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