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Increasing "board" rate for close friend

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  • #61
    Doesn't that depend on where you are?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by vxf111 View Post

      Do you need a hug? It kind of feels like you need a hug.

      Actually, if you read carefully-- I have no overhead for the barn (mortgage fully paid), electricity (solar panels, came when I bought the property, cost me nothing and I have more free energy than I could use), and "consumables" (hay, grain, water, grass-- that's all he eats. Assuming this low cost scenario other extras would be paid for by the owner and not included in board). Yes. I was off by $3.25 cents O-M-G. But if I had calculated with the $15 bag of orchard grass pellets and a rational balancer bought in bulk from horse tech instead of the Sentinel, I'd be under the $150.

      Moreover, as has been clarified more times than I care to count on this thread... the assumption if that as a favor to the boarder/friend, OP (and I) are not passing along to the boarder costs that the BO would have incurred anyway for her own horses. Only plassing along added costs specific to the boarded horses. That has been explained again and again. And. Again.

      So... Q-E-D right back 'atcha.
      You always need a rational balancer in a discussion.

      Comment


      • #63
        Just wanted to put it out there that cost of boarding definitely depends on where you're located. I live in the Midwest, and have boarded both near a major city and way out in the boonies, with a difference of $175/month for full board vs $500 for full board. The biggest difference there is definitely if you're making your own hay or buying it, and you're buying it, which justifies you raising your "board" for your friend, considering that you're essentially giving her a place to keep her horses with no real return. It's not unreasonable to have a discussion with your friend about the cost of living for their horses, and the bare minimum. Even if you don't want to do a labor charge for all the work you do to care for them (and anyone who's done animal care can attest that it IS work), the baseline care costs should be met.

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        • #64
          OP, you should be arranging PROPER insurance coverage for this set up, finding out how much more that's going to cost you, and THEN discuss changing the price. Your insurance might go up a couple hundred a month. Seriously.
          Jigga:
          Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

          Comment


          • #65
            Getting a bit back on track...

            I have done what the OP has done--and I have some different advice. I undercharged a dear friend for boarding her horse at my private barn. She was one of either 3 or 4 horses and it was just the two of us and I do all my own labor. I charged her what it cost in bedding, feed, hay and incidentals--$250 when the going rate in my area would be closer to $1000-$1200. But the realities are my costs were a lot more than just the direct expenses plus I never included my time. The idea that "I was going to mow the pasture, spray broad leaf weed killer, spread the manure, sweep the aisle, wash the water troughs, over-seed in the fall, pay for water and electric, fix the fences, pay for help when I went out of town, drag the ring, pick up the shavings ANYWAY so it doesn't COUNT" is really just a way to fool yourself. It counts. Every single bit of it counts. The longer you do it without appropriate reimbursement or appreciation (because, you know, it doesn't "count") the more likely it will foster resentment.

            My friend is a lovely person and she would have been very unhappy to have discovered how I felt, and yes, I should have told her and it is on me that I did not. But it was the little petty things that bugged me and I did not want to be petty. Things like even though I wasn't charging her my labor, when on occasion she might pick her own stall in the middle of the day she would never voluntarily continue with the whole job because those weren't her horses and it never occurred to her she should--never mind I cleaned her horse's stall every evening and picked it midday when she wasn't there.

            To the OP if you are still figuring things out: do a spread sheet and figure out what your direct expense is, then figure out your non-direct expense--all of it, then figure out your time. Be generous because there is still an inconvenience and stress factor that is tough to monetize. You should have an idea of each one of those things. THEN figure out what the going rate in your area is for the service you provide. If you want to give your friend a deal don't do it based on your cost, do it as a percentage off the going rate. Long term it will make for a healthier relationship with your friend. I would have been so much better off telling her she could board for 10, 20 or 30% off the fair rate than the way I did because then the deal gets clearly defined for the friend in a way they can understand and appreciate and they are still feeling gateful.

            Today, I'm considering bringing in another friend--if I do she is going to get charged the whole going rate. And you know what? She will be ecstatic with that deal because she has discovered that there are things you and your horse get at a small private barn that you can't find much less pay for on the open market. I was giving away to my first friend something close to $1000 a month in value and it really created this huge unbalanced in the the relationship. Do NOT sell yourself short and don't allow your friends to either. It's not healthy.
            Last edited by subk; Sep. 7, 2018, 09:09 PM. Reason: clarifcation

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by subk View Post

              Things like even though I wasn't charging her my labor, when on occasion she might pick her own stall in the middle of the day she would never voluntarily continue with the whole job because those weren't her horses and it never occurred to her she should--never mind I cleaned her horse's stall every evening and picked it midday when she wasn't there.

              Do NOT sell yourself short and don't allow your friends to either. It's not healthy.
              Exactly. It really is not about the money but the principles. This 100X.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by subk View Post
                Getting a bit back on track...

                I have done what the OP has done--and I have some different advice. I undercharged a dear friend for boarding her horse at my private barn. She was one of either 3 or 4 horses and it was just the two of us and I do all my own labor. I charged her what it cost in bedding, feed, hay and incidentals--$250 when the going rate in my area would be closer to $1000-$1200. But the realities are my costs were a lot more than just the direct expenses plus I never included my time. The idea that "I was going to mow the pasture, spray broad leaf weed killer, spread the manure, sweep the aisle, wash the water troughs, over-seed in the fall, pay for water and electric, fix the fences, pay for help when I went out of town, drag the ring, pick up the shavings ANYWAY so it doesn't COUNT" is really just a way to fool yourself. It counts. Every single bit of it counts. The longer you do it without appropriate reimbursement or appreciation (because, you know, it doesn't "count") the more likely it will foster resentment.


                .
                When I boarded for a friend, I did not count the things I was already going to do for my horses, such as mowing pastures, etc. It would (and is) done anyway.

                Comment


                • #68
                  I just want to point out that boarding in most instances, especially super low cost boarding, does NOT include a trusted person personally watching out for your horses and agreeing to take care of any emergencies or problems that should come up. That service alone is an extremely valuable service. Most boarding barns, even ones that charge middle or middle-higher rates still insist that the owner maintain some level of involvement and responsibility.

                  There are very few places that can be trusted with horses long term for an absentee owner, and an owner should expect to pay significantly more for a place that can be trusted with this responsibility. That responsibility may be a light one when the weather is nice and everything is going smoothly, but can be a much bigger deal in the face of bad weather, health issues or injuries, or the barn owner simply wanting to go on vacation.

                  I know that many people like to make the point that they don't want to charge for fixed costs like the facility or the electric, etc. or even the incremental increase in labor. But you know what? Those things are huge things. A person who is paying a mortgage (and taxes, insurance, electric, mowing, maintenance) on an expensive horse facility is making sacrifices to do so--that is money that could go towards retirement, towards other investments, or towards a fantastic vacation every year. It's totally reasonable to expect a friend to chip in if they are getting the benefit of that horse facility.

                  subk is right, it creates an imbalance. Boarding someone's horse for just the cost of feed, hay, bedding and labor is a huge financial gift to someone. And it's a weird gift, because it likely won't be appreciated at it's true value.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #69
                    BeeHoney really great point. I did not think about it in that way until you articulated it so perfectly. How would you present that to the "boarder." Keep in mind, my friend is not in any way against a board rate increase. I just can't help but feel the need to "justify" my increase over and above the consumables as I do not intend to profit from this arrangement. However, I am realizing by not charging for my time and personalize care, as she is absentee, I am losing anyway.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
                      I just want to point out that boarding in most instances, especially super low cost boarding, does NOT include a trusted person personally watching out for your horses and agreeing to take care of any emergencies or problems that should come up. That service alone is an extremely valuable service. Most boarding barns, even ones that charge middle or middle-higher rates still insist that the owner maintain some level of involvement and responsibility.

                      There are very few places that can be trusted with horses long term for an absentee owner, and an owner should expect to pay significantly more for a place that can be trusted with this responsibility. That responsibility may be a light one when the weather is nice and everything is going smoothly, but can be a much bigger deal in the face of bad weather, health issues or injuries, or the barn owner simply wanting to go on vacation. . .
                      I agree wholeheartedly with this. I helped a very dear friend out (at no cost), when she was going through an extended, very difficult time in her life, by pasture-boarding her horses, which involved more than simply turning them out to run feral. I still checked on them a couple of times per day, looking for any signs of injury or illness - nicks or cuts, burrs in the mane/tail, etc. - filled extra water troughs, arranged for farrier care (and paid for it, waiting for reimbursal), and so forth. With what was going on in her life, she was rarely able to stop by, and I'm sure it was a relief to her to be able to depend upon me.

                      There was a major flooding event during this period, which meant we had to scramble to move her horses, as debris had taken out some fencing, since there weren't enough stalls for everyone to be inside. Sure, we'd have had to repair the fencing eventually anyway, but it wouldn't have required immediate emergency repairs in difficult conditions if not for her horses.

                      We're still dear friends and I don't regret helping her out -- she would do the same for me -- but there certainly was additional stress from the responsibility. I also eventually came to believe, as weeks turned into months, that I was enabling her to avoid dealing with what was her new reality.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
                        I know that many people like to make the point that they don't want to charge for fixed costs like the facility or the electric, etc. or even the incremental increase in labor. But you know what? Those things are huge things. .
                        a simple box fan

                        According to the Central Iowa Power Cooperative the typical box fan is rated at 200 watts. So if a kilowatt costs 12 cents per hour, the fan would cost 20% of that or 2.4 cents per hour. Extend that out to a month and it works out to $17.28 per month if it runs round the clock

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          We live in a small town and there are really only two boarding facilites, one with an indoor and us with an outdoor, round pen, stadium field and small cross country course. We charge $300 Cdn for a month of pasture board. This covers insurance, hay in the winter, some power to heat stock waterers and the inconvience of having people on your place.

                          We have 3 absentee owners and 5 regular boarders. We built them their own tack room and they have access to use paddocks if need be. The one owner who rides daily has been hinting that we make a lot. Another friend was boarding one summer with us at a reduced rate ($250) and was pissed when we told him that it was going to be $300 from September on. He left and the friendship faltered for awhile. He is now back and happy even at the increased price.

                          You can't please everyone. I find 2 of our absentee owners annoy me in that they don't realize how much work we do because they aren't there. The 3rd is so nice it doesn't bother me and she is away for work so I understand.

                          I would not board for any less as it is a lot of work and takes twice as long to do chores as you are checking on the extra horses.

                          Good luck and I hope your friend is a good friend and realizes what a deal she has.

                          Nancy

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I'm in a boarding situation where:
                            My Barn owner is a dear friend. She also runs a boarding operation, so there is some profit on her end.
                            I exchange 4 days of barn work labor to not pay anything above and beyond what my horse costs to keep.
                            I spend approximately $400 a month on just his needs (grain, hay, shavings) plus his farrier and vet care, supplements, etc. So that alone tells me you're undercharging JUST for supplies/food for the horses, unless you have some crazy good deal on feed and hay.

                            She pays her barn help $10 an hour. I did the math, and spend approximately 2 hours a day doing barn work for her, four times a week. That equals approximately $320 a month if she were paying me for my labor. She charges $700 a month for board. If I were getting paid cash, I would make out with an additional $20. I enjoy offering her my help instead. She watches my dog when I go on vacation, and I farm sit all the animals when she is away. We have a good arrangement because it's a fair one.
                            “Working horses is a little like being married. Sometimes you need to adjust and change your plan.”

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by clanter View Post

                              a simple box fan

                              Extend that out to a month and it works out to $17.28 per month if it runs round the clock
                              $17.28 x 5 months = $86.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                While I know California in general is a high cost area...Don't justify your increase with this math. I'm still puzzling over their hay costs and I live in the North Bay (just barely ;-)

                                Copied from Craigslist ad:


                                We have 2 stalls coming open on January 1st, 2019. We offer full service boarding at 1250.00/month. Any additional fees related to the care of your horse including specialty feed, supplements, tack, fees for Ferrier and veterinarian services, are each boarder's responsibility. We do offer additional services for additional cost. Please let us know if you would like to see a price list.
                                Excellent location in Fair Oaks. You can tack up, ride out and hit the trail by the river in less than 10 minutes. Urban conveniences + close proximity to your horse + easy access to trails into parks and the country = HORSE LOVERS DREAM!

                                Please review the costs of horse keeping and be aware that our prices reflect what it takes to sustain our boarding facility.

                                Labor: at least 45 minutes to an hour 2 x/day is spent cleaning each stall, replacing bedding, feeding/graining each horse, wetting down the arena to control dust, cleaning and checking waterers and livestock tanks and daily chores for maintenance and safety of the stable.
                                Stable hand wage is $11.00 - $15.00/hour.
                                2 horses = 2 hours x 2 (4 hours/day minimum) = $44.00/day x 7 days/week = $308.00
                                $308.00 x 4 weeks/month = $1,232.00/month (this is without taxes and using minimum wage)

                                Hay: Prices ( we use the organic forage unless otherwise indicated):
                                Alfalfa/Orchard Grass Mix: $14.50/bale
                                Premium Alfalfa: $13.50/bale
                                Alfalfa and Alfalfa/Rye Grass Mix: $11.50/bale
                                Organic Forage (vetch and oats, good TDN and protein): $10/bale
                                Sudan Grass: $9/bale
                                3-Grain: $8.50/bale
                                1.5-3% of body weight. An average 1000 lb horse will eat 15-20 pounds of hay/day. 10 lbs fed in the morning and again in the evening. A bale of hay is usually approximately 60 lbs. Each horse will go through a bale of hay every 3 days.
                                30 days in a month means 10 bales of hay for each horse each month = 20 bales hay/month
                                20 bales x $10.00 = $200.00/month (price will vary on the season and weight and metabolic needs of each
                                horse). This does not include delivery fee for the hay or the labor to unload it and stack it.

                                Water: Cost is .50 per CCF (100 cubic feet) 1 cubic foot = 7.48 gallons. Each 1000 lb horse drinks approximately 10 gallons/day (1 gallon for each 100 lbs) (100 cubic feet = 748 gallons/water)
                                1 horse = 10 gallons/day x 30 days = 300 gallons/month x 2 horses = 600 gallons/month
                                Then add in water used in the pasture and the arena = at least 1,496 gallons/month = $1.00
                                Plus the fees the water district adds on for their service = 131.24/month = 132.24/month

                                Barn shavings: $34.00/stall/month x 2 horses = 64.00/month

                                Electric: Cost 12.39¢/kWh average kw used per month = 897 kw x 12.39¢ = 115.00 plus
                                service fees averages about 200.00/month

                                Cost of composting and hauling manure for disposal = 100.00/month

                                Total cost each month for the care of 2 horses = 1928.24/month not including any incidentals, maintenance, upkeep or improvements made to the facility. As you can see we will be barely breaking even by charging 1250.00/month so please don't ask for a discounted rate.

                                We want to thank you in advance for your consideration. We welcome any questions about our services and look forward to talking to you about boarding your horse at Fair Oaks best inner city boarding facility.
                                craigslist provides local classifieds and forums for jobs, housing, for sale, services, local community, and events

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Some of their costs make me want to faint! But it's all geographic!
                                  ~Veronica
                                  "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                  http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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