• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

In our continuing effort to provide an avenue for individuals to voice their opinions and experiences, we have recently reviewed and updated our forum policies. Generally, we have allowed users to share their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, trainers, etc. within the industry, and that is not changing.

When it came to overt criminal allegations, however, those discussions have in the past needed to stem from a report by a reputable news source or action by law enforcement or the legal system.

We are now expanding our policies to allow posters to share their own first-hand experiences involving overt criminal allegations, such as animal abuse or neglect, theft, etc., but only if they publicly provide their full first and last name along with the post. We still will not allow anonymous postings alleging criminal activity.

So, a user may now make a specific claim against a named individual or company, but it must be a FIRST-HAND account, and they have to IDENTIFY THEMSELVES. Users have always been legally responsible for their posts, and nothing has changed there, but we want to loosen the reins a bit and further allow the free flow of discussion and information relevant to the horse community.

We are not providing a free-for-all of anonymous rumor-mongering. As enduring advocates for the welfare of the horse, we want to provide a forum for those willing to sign their name and shine a light on issues of concern to them in the industry.

The full revised rules are posted at the top of each forum for reference.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums’ policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

ORPHAN FOALS: Information sought.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    The United States Drought Monitor shows that the Navajo Nation is still within exceptionally severe drought, and drought has been ongoing for years.

    https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

    Drought combined with a huge population of feral horses (35,000 to 50,000) on open range is a problem that the people there have been grappling with for a long time. There literally isn't enough food and water for all the horses that are there, and bringing emergency food in would keep the population higher than the land can support. It would have been kinder to put the foals down rather than to ship them.

    https://navajotimes.com/reznews/hunt...owing-problem/

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by luvmyhackney View Post
      This hurts my heart. What can we do on our end? Try to contact reservation and offer alternatives? Educate them on gelding and hormones to keep mares from reproducing. I don’t have the means to care for foals, but would be happy to contribute a dribble or get involved.

      At this point, we are trying to find others who have seen this in their area, groups of young foals brought in, sold off.

      These will not be going through auction ring, they would end up paying people to take them as some can attest, foals this young do not bring money plus the outcry from people attending the auction, as well as knowing any horse they might buy from there will have been exposed to strangles would be off putting.

      Ask your horse friends to keep eyes and ears open.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by MGLpony View Post
        OP stated that the dams were shipped to slaughter. My guess is that the foals are not worth much at slaughter and so the sellers count on bleeding hearts to "save" them. More profit this way.

        I've heard that some of the reservations have an overwhelming number of feral horses and dogs. Apparently no effort is made to control reproduction rates. In fact, a few years ago, an Oregon tribe was building a horse slaughterhouse on their reservation in order to circumvent the US laws and regs regarding horse slaughter.
        These foals are too young to ship. Have to be 6 months old. These are way younger than that.

        I have also been told that trailers sealed on the reservation may travel through NM without being opened or inspected, which would also circumvent US laws. I do not know this for sure but have learned that if money is involved in anything...things will be done that are shady.

        Whatever became of the OR slaughterhouse issue, did it get built?

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #24
          Originally posted by shayaalliard View Post
          I saw the ad for them one facebook when they were on the way. I know a couple people posted that they had taken a couple foals each.

          The whole thing was awful, but the ad was very honest- it said they were sick, starving orphans who may be contagious and may die.
          Do you remember the date for the post you saw on FB? Or where you saw it? That might help find more who bought these foals.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #25
            Originally posted by Against*All*Odds View Post
            OP do you know if there were 12-18mon olds? How long has this been going on for? I bought 2 yearlings in 2009 from a meat packing place here (Ontario) and was told they came from MO. There were 100s of them. My farm managed to save 13.
            In the 4 loads mentioned in OP...all of them were under 4 months. Most on the younger end of that too.

            I would also say this has been going on a long, long time. Money is a common incentive for this.

            Anything you can remember about this, let me know.

            Comment


            • #26
              I live in Southern NM. I have a feral horse that came off the reservation here close by. Do not fall under BLM jurisdiction. If you can catch the horse its yours for $25. I believe Jack was captured about the age of 12. Used as bear bait before he was rescued by a kind older man who broke him. He had one more owner before he came to me. I believe the Navajo reservation is northern part of the state. I could take in a foal, had no idea this was happening. I don't do Facebook, any other way to get info on these poor babies?

              Comment


              • #27
                After thinking about it, wanted to add that I know of a Mustang rescue here in our state that may be able to help, or at least give some suggestions. I also know of a group who are supporters/protectors of the feral herds here on the reservation, which is the herd Jack came out of. They may be able to help. Still need to know how to find more information on this. Why are they trucking these foals so far away? I wonder how many local people are even aware of this.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Belle Beach View Post

                  Do you remember the date for the post you saw on FB? Or where you saw it? That might help find more who bought these foals.
                  I have not been able to find it, but it was in a fb group -possibly hags with nags. It was probably 2-3 days before they arrived.
                  ~Former Pet Store Manager (10yrs)
                  ~Vintage Toy Dealer (rememberswhen.us)
                  ~Vet Tech Student
                  Mom to : 2 Horses,3 Dogs, 1 Cat

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Belle Beach View Post


                    At this point, we are trying to find others who have seen this in their area, groups of young foals brought in, sold off.

                    These will not be going through auction ring, they would end up paying people to take them as some can attest, foals this young do not bring money plus the outcry from people attending the auction, as well as knowing any horse they might buy from there will have been exposed to strangles would be off putting.

                    Ask your horse friends to keep eyes and ears open.
                    As a previous poster mentioned - we see this in the PNW too. This is an every summer ordeal. Every year the KP gets a load of horses off the Yakama Reservation. Mom's go to slaughter, foals are typically scooped up for a couple hundred dollars a piece by a network of people who then work to find them homes. They are usually a few weeks to a couple of months old. I have an old acquaintance who typically takes in several herself and assists with many more. It's heartbreaking and so damn frustrating to see a new group, year after year.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      This is awful. Not to mention the spread of disease to them and to other horses in the rest of the country. And many orphans never turn into equine good citizens. Lots of tremendous behavior issues with some of them.

                      If they insist on slaughter for the mares better to euthanize the foals. They have a tough row to hoe.

                      Really don't have the answers for their problems of overpopulation.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Originally posted by SLedbetter View Post
                        After thinking about it, wanted to add that I know of a Mustang rescue here in our state that may be able to help, or at least give some suggestions. I also know of a group who are supporters/protectors of the feral herds here on the reservation, which is the herd Jack came out of. They may be able to help. Still need to know how to find more information on this. Why are they trucking these foals so far away? I wonder how many local people are even aware of this.

                        More information such as? There isn't anything 'formal' to find out more information from. If you know of any group or people that I can talk to about them, I would be happy to do so.

                        And as to why they are trailering them so far away? Money is all I can come up with. As well as if they flooded the areas close to where this is taking place, with hundreds of orphan foals, someone somewhere would have been raising sand.

                        At least I hope someone would have been horror stricken and been doing something...who knows.

                        I doubt that vast majority of the people in the area know this is happening. I do know that there are people that do, but they don't raise a ruckus because if they do, they won't be able to help any foals as the KBs won't call them to come get some.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          This is so appalling on so many levels it’s hard to wrap my brain around. The financial aspect of this just doesn’t make sense. There’s an awful lot of moving foals around for not much profit as far as I can figure out. As a previous poster said, it would be kinder to euthanize these foals rather than subject them to the living hell of transport. Belle Beach, good for you for making this situation better known.
                          Frost Bite Falls

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            This is so heartbreaking. There has to be a better solution!

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #34
                              I have been posting this several other places as well and am finding out more little snippets of information and am still hoping to find out more.

                              Please tell your horse friends about this, and ask any friends that have other livestock if they saw young foals at any auctions.

                              So far I have now learned:

                              There were 200 foals brought into Nevada MO auction, very young, and these did have paperwork with them, and that was signed off on by a vet in Belen. Woman that told me this said she did try to find out where all of these foals were coming from but the vet cited client confidentiality and would say nothing. She was also told that there would be more loads of 80 on each semi coming in to various auction houses in MO too.

                              They were pinto, dun, palomino more in the ones she bought....of the 8 she bought, she only lost one.


                              Found out that there were 4 foals brought to a tack auction, all about 2 weeks of age, sickly and the Amish man said he had gotten them at another auction and didn't want to bottle feed them since his mare would not take them. The friend of the woman who shared this said her friend took the two very sick ones who are gaited, as she did have a mare to put them on...and the other two went with some people who had Belgians.

                              Someone said there had been a lot of foals at TX, OK, LA auctions this year, some went through with dams but some had had dams pulled.

                              So keep this in mind, and please let me know if anyone comes across anything that might help.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Belle Beach View Post
                                I have been posting this several other places as well and am finding out more little snippets of information and am still hoping to find out more.

                                Please tell your horse friends about this, and ask any friends that have other livestock if they saw young foals at any auctions.

                                ...of the 8 she bought, she only lost one.


                                Found out that there were 4 foals brought to a tack auction, all about 2 weeks of age, sickly and the Amish man said he had gotten them at another auction and didn't want to bottle feed them since his mare would not take them. The friend of the woman who shared this said her friend took the two very sick ones who are gaited, as she did have a mare to put them on...and the other two went with some people who had Belgians
                                This is horrific. I am speechless...

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Belle Beach View Post
                                  ORPHAN FOALS: INFORMATION REQUEST
                                  We are aware that there are other foals also being done this way across the US, any information about those would also be appreciated.
                                  Who is "We" ?

                                  ... _. ._ .._. .._

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by Equibrit View Post

                                    Who is "We" ?

                                    Those of us in touch about these foals. Some bought foals that have died, one has a foal that she saved with nanny goat. Others have had foals in the past that seem to fit with what we saw here.

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X