• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

For the BLM Conspiracy Theorists

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • For the BLM Conspiracy Theorists

    And, possibly, anyone needing entertainment as a break from the heat.

    Some like to say BLM rounds up horses in secret...and yet, gee, here they are, as usual, putting out an environmental assessment to get public input before rounding up a particular group of horses...

    http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/info/new..._a_30-day.html

    You can actually read the document and submit comments on the proposed action by August 26. Or, you can sit around and conjure up your own spin on how to ignore this information and continue to insist that BLM operates 'in secret' as regards feral horses.

    Haven't read it myself, so no comment as yet...busy on another document on the same web site for the time being, for my day job!

  • #2
    I think we should hear what Mel Gibson has to say about the matter.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

    Comment


    • #3
      I think we should hear what Mel Gibson has to say about the matter.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Beverley View Post
        And, possibly, anyone needing entertainment as a break from the heat.

        Some like to say BLM rounds up horses in secret...and yet, gee, here they are, as usual, putting out an environmental assessment to get public input before rounding up a particular group of horses...

        http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/info/new..._a_30-day.html

        You can actually read the document and submit comments on the proposed action by August 26. Or, you can sit around and conjure up your own spin on how to ignore this information and continue to insist that BLM operates 'in secret' as regards feral horses.

        Haven't read it myself, so no comment as yet...busy on another document on the same web site for the time being, for my day job!
        well the BLM has quite the history in Utah. Utah is where the running of wild horses by the blm contracter using aircraft started. Oh about 20 years ago in Utah, and I'm sure its still up on major new orgs like New york times. Utah was running wild horses off cliffs using aircraft and the public outrage was so intense they were forced to stop.

        We as americans pay the blm with our taxes to care for the publics land and the federally protected wild horses. By law of congress in 1971. We as americans have a first am. right to observe and view our federal employees.

        The BLM has comment periods for every round-up, go ahead and read it it is short. If you are familar with the area, comment on why the wild horses should be removed so the strip mines can go in on your Utah public lands.

        Here is a current assesment by an expert who in sworn court deposition, says BLM does a much less than stellar job. And does block wild horses in waterless areas so they can have cattle grazing on public lands instead.

        http://thecloudfoundation.files.word...p-doc-24-6.pdf

        Comment


        • #5
          and its no conspiracy that running horses (using aircraft) in 90 degree weather for over 2 hours causes heat stroke, road founder and mares to misscarry their foals. foals to be left behind dead.

          I mean would you run your pregnant mares and foals with aircraft over rockie grounds in the heat for an hour? for 2 hours? What would happen to your horses? do you think this would ruin their feet (road founder) and cause your pregnant mares to abort? Do you think the foals would try their hardest to stay with their mare and then fall down in the desert heat. Maybe thats why 40 mares with milk were rounded-up last week and had no foals with them.

          ""Professor Michael Lindinger, an animal and exercise physiologist at the University of Guelph, explains: "It only takes 17 minutes of moderate intensity exercise in hot, humid weather to raise a horse's temperature to dangerous levels. That's three to 10 times faster than in humans. Horses feel the heat much worse than we do."

          And the effects can be serious. If a horse's body temperature shoots up from the normal 37 to 38 C to 41 C, temperatures within working muscles may be as high as 43 C, a temperature at which proteins in muscle begin to denature (cook). Horses suffering excessive heat stress may experience hypotension, colic and renal failure.""""

          Comment


          • #6
            Ditto!

            Originally posted by Sunlei View Post
            and its no conspiracy that running horses (using aircraft) in 90 degree weather for over 2 hours causes heat stroke, road founder and mares to misscarry their foals. foals to be left behind dead.

            I mean would you run your pregnant mares and foals with aircraft over rockie grounds in the heat for an hour? for 2 hours? What would happen to your horses? do you think this would ruin their feet (road founder) and cause your pregnant mares to abort? Do you think the foals would try their hardest to stay with their mare and then fall down in the desert heat. Maybe thats why 40 mares with milk were rounded-up last week and had no foals with them.

            ""Professor Michael Lindinger, an animal and exercise physiologist at the University of Guelph, explains: "It only takes 17 minutes of moderate intensity exercise in hot, humid weather to raise a horse's temperature to dangerous levels. That's three to 10 times faster than in humans. Horses feel the heat much worse than we do."

            And the effects can be serious. If a horse's body temperature shoots up from the normal 37 to 38 C to 41 C, temperatures within working muscles may be as high as 43 C, a temperature at which proteins in muscle begin to denature (cook). Horses suffering excessive heat stress may experience hypotension, colic and renal failure.""""
            What she said!

            I mean, do any of us, irrespective of our religious or political beliefs, usually think our government does a GOOD job at the tasks we entrust it with... Hmmm... let me think... the IRS and the US TAX code, roadwork, public utilities, dare I go on???

            Do we really want the US government in charge of any of our barns and horses???

            NOT ME!
            Gleann Oighrig LLC
            Showing, Sales, Breeding, and Boarding
            Manakin-Sabot, Virginia

            Comment


            • #7
              Not having ever lived out west, or having studied anything regarding this issue (save for birth control measures for wild mares), I don't have much to say either way.

              If the horses have been run off cliffs/by helicopters in heat (or in any weather for that matter) or otherwise forced to be in any inhumane situation, that is absolutely uncalled for and would not be considered a "conspiracy theory". It's just wrong/evil.

              On the other hand, what has been reported here could easily be a "story", unless there is evidence to support it. Is there evidence? If so, where?

              I will say, when I was a pre-teen, I recall reading a book called "Wild Horse Killers" in which the author (can't recall name) described wild horses being rounded up/killed by helicopters. It was very disturbing. Again, I have no idea if it was based on truth or not.

              I am aware that there is quite a fight out west between the cattle owners and the wild horse supporters for grazing rights - at least according to magazine articles I've read over the years. I imagine both sides put a spin on their "stories" to gain public sympathy.
              Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people.
              W. C. Fields

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Sunlei, bless your heart, thank you for illustrating my point so perfectly!

                Lex, I'll go work on the quote from Mel.

                Comment


                • #9
                  ---"I am aware that there is quite a fight out west between the cattle owners and the wild horse supporters for grazing rights - at least according to magazine articles I've read over the years. I imagine both sides put a spin on their "stories" to gain public sympathy."---

                  Perspective, that is what people that don't know the real situation don't have.

                  In 1971, there was a law passed about how to manage herds of feral horses, because they were overrunning federal and state land and damaging it and nearby private lands.
                  Horses are not native to these rather fragile ranges, were not being grazed, but established themselves as an invasive species and were damaging the land for all, including the true native species.

                  Since the public wanted to keep those horses as a symbol of pioneer times, someone came up with the bright idea to make the USA government de facto breeders and managers of feral horses and designated ranges for them to live, conditions to manage them and put the BLM in charge.

                  Now, the question is, do you really think that if that law would have given feral horses 100% of all the pasture land in the USA, those groups that exist and make millions a year from the "save wild horse" controversy would be happy?
                  No, the BLM would still have to manage those horses and somehow keep the numbers in check, no matter how much land you give them.
                  After all, those horses are supposed to be a small number, as a symbol, not as the invasive species they are.
                  Do we want feral horses to roam all the lands as they uncontrollably expand their numbers?

                  I think the problem of how to manage those feral horses as symbols is mostly a great way for some groups to live and thrive and become rich from the controversies they can stir up and so hopefully the gullible public will send them donations to "save the wild horses".
                  For some groups, that money is a big part of their income and they are not about to let this golden goose be managed any other way than with controversy.

                  The horses? They are the losers here, as is the BLM, that no matter what it does, it can't do right and is used, along with the handy scapegoat of "ranchers wanting to graze cattle".

                  Remember when you hear those ranchers in the West using federal land to graze some cattle, that they are extremely strictly controlled, their permits are for a few WEEKS a year of grazing, they some years are closed to any use, if the grass is too sparse in a drought.

                  The horses, on the other hand, are there year around and if there is a drought, they starve, after they damage the little grass that managed to grow and so starve also the truly native species in those ranges.

                  The BLM is, as any good manager, in charge of managing the land first, because without a thriving basic resource those grasses are, there won't be animals of any kind supported there, not even horses.

                  The stories about the greedy ranchers are just one more way to get the attention of the public, bad PR, because anyone can check more and see that such are misleading if not outright false and that ought to reflect on the story teller.

                  The truth is there, learn for yourself, don't believe any one side, although in reality there is just one side, that of the ones making money with their "save the wild horses" groups people donate to.
                  Everyone else, the BLM and the few ranchers involved are trying to live with whatever they are told to do, they are not out there asking for donations and putting stories out.

                  One story is that the ranchers and BLM are out to eliminate the feral horses.
                  The facts, in 1971, when the law was passed to protect them as symbols, in designated areas, there were approximately 17,000 wild horses on public lands.
                  Now there are 25,000-30,000, not exactly numbers to confirm anyone wanting to kill them out, but numbers to indicate there is a problem with overstocking those ranges and why the BLM is trying to handle that problem.

                  If this problem was from a rancher raising horses under those conditions, animal control would have long ago been called about the starving horses and his operation shut down.
                  Here, the BLM can't manage the problem those too many horses are without being raked over the coals by those same groups that would be telling all those stories about how that horrible rancher was starving horses, when it is because of their actions, the lawsuits against anything the BLM wants to do, that horses today are not being able to be managed right.

                  Get this book if you want to be more informed.
                  This book doesn't take sides, it tells it like it is, the good, bad and indifferent, just the facts:

                  http://oregonslivinglegends.com/

                  For those that don't seem to know, this is who the BLM is:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management

                  "The BLM has a wide range of responsibilities, including collecting geographic information, maintaining records of land ownership and mineral rights, conserving wilderness areas while allocating other areas for grazing and agriculture, and protecting cultural heritage sites on public land. The BLM operates the National Landscape Conservation System, which protects some U.S. National Monuments, some National Wild and Scenic Rivers, and some designated wildernesses among other types of areas including wilderness study areas.

                  BLM is a major employer of wildland firefighters, range conservationists, foresters, botanists, land specialists, geologists, archaeologists, biologists, outdoor recreation planners, and surveyors."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I really wouldn't have an issue with the BLM managing the land and the horses if they could actually manage them correctly. However every time they do a roundup they get THOUSANDS less horses than they want to gather. They say there are 37,000 horses on the lands but they have 0 PROOF there are that many horses on the land. There are NO detailed survey reports of ANY KIND of EXACTLY how many horses are on the land. The BLM needs more employees or at least employees that can count. They have 0 record of what happens to the mustangs once they are "adopted out" and can't even produce a full list of freeze brands in use right now. Nor do they have a place you can look up the brand of your horse to figure out what it is much less what year its born. My favorite though is when you get "papers" saying the bay standing in front of me is supposed to be a palomino with a blaze and two socks.

                    "The activists and the government disagree on nearly every statistic about wild horses, including their numbers, how much acreage they are allotted to roam and how much forage is consumed by horses as compared to cattle or wildlife on federal land. Wild horse data are a maze of statistics and spin, where estimates trump exact figures."
                    http://www.thecloudfoundation.org/in...-to-extinction
                    Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
                    Originally Posted by alicen:
                    What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Great info, Bluey.There are definitely more sides to this story then what is presented by the loudest voice, but in the end, the horses are on the losing end of the stick.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mitma View Post
                        What she said!

                        I mean, do any of us, irrespective of our religious or political beliefs, usually think our government does a GOOD job at the tasks we entrust it with... Hmmm... let me think... the IRS and the US TAX code, roadwork, public utilities, dare I go on???

                        Do we really want the US government in charge of any of our barns and horses???

                        NOT ME!
                        Then get rid of the Wild Horse and Burro Program, the taxpayers will now save millions of dollars that went to the care of these horses. Without the WH&B program, all horses in long term holding will likely go straight to Canada and Mexico for slaughter. The ones left on the range will be left on their own and without PROTECTION from the BLM, they will be rounded up by folks looking to make a buck sending them to slaughter, just like before the wild horse laws went in to effect. If they get onto private farm and hay fields they will likely be shot. Sounds like a great deal for the horses if the goverment isn't in charge of them anymore. Oh, unless you are going to take them all.......

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BabyGoose View Post
                          Then get rid of the Wild Horse and Burro Program, the taxpayers will now save millions of dollars that went to the care of these horses. Without the WH&B program, all horses in long term holding will likely go straight to Canada and Mexico for slaughter. The ones left on the range will be left on their own and without PROTECTION from the BLM, they will be rounded up by folks looking to make a buck sending them to slaughter, just like before the wild horse laws went in to effect. If they get onto private farm and hay fields they will likely be shot. Sounds like a great deal for the horses if the goverment isn't in charge of them anymore. Oh, unless you are going to take them all.......
                          Yep. For all the people who think big government is bad and want their tax cuts and also complain about the size of the deficit, this would be one place to start. And think of how many programs like this the government sponsors - all special interests - all expensive.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for all the info Bluey, it saved me from having to say pretty much the exact same thing.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by leilatigress View Post
                              They say there are 37,000 horses on the lands but they have 0 PROOF there are that many horses on the land. There are NO detailed survey reports of ANY KIND of EXACTLY how many horses are on the land.
                              Funny thing. The link I provided in the first post includes...detailed survey reports of numbers of horses. Guess you didn't bother to look, eh?

                              Do you only read that which supports your personal preconceptions?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Madeline Pickens volunteered to take on all the mustangs with some help from the government. Instead of working out something with her, the BLM prefers to round up using helicopters and warehouse these horses in "holding pens" for who knows how long and for adoptions that are not followed up. The BLM should NOT be managing these animals. They are too tied in with the ranchers and hunters. The horses have no voice. The helicopter round ups are like terrorists to the mustangs and always kill and maim -- how horrendous and primitive! Let's not forget how the BLM has also been a proponent of helicopter kills of wolves in their native territories, around their dens including cubs and nursing mothers. Oh yes -- and they also are over the lands and areas where the oil "spills" (LEAKS!) have happened -- again -- in bed with the enemy. The mustangs deserve to live in peace as do other animals that are wild or feral. "Controls" and "managing" should not include such disgusting methods, particularly when the ecology and environment is also compromised. I've written letters about the mustangs since grammar school and nothing has changed -- they are still treated horribly by the BLM who supplies the public with misleading information with their spin on it. Ken Salazar sold his soul a long time ago to the special interest groups with $$ and clout -- something the animals don't have. The BLM knows nothing about the animals it manages and doesn't care. JMHO!
                                PennyG

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by TKR View Post
                                  Madeline Pickens volunteered to take on all the mustangs with some help from the government.
                                  Her proposal would cost the tax payer far more per horse than they are paying now.
                                  She was doing no one any favors.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                                    Her proposal would cost the tax payer far more per horse than they are paying now.
                                    She was doing no one any favors.
                                    She would have become much richer than she is now. Not sure if she was thinking about saving horses or seeing dollar signs!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Ditto on the thanks Bluey. I can only add that the adoptions ARE followed up. Yesterday I was at the barn moping after a bad call when the BLM inspector showed up to do the BO's one year post adoption visit. He asked me how the horse was doing, how the BO treated the horse, if the horse had proper veterinary care etc. I was able to confirm the BO is a good horse owner (no reason to tell him the BO is an idiot, or an asshat-he does take VERY GOOD care of his horse and that's what the BLM needed to know)
                                      Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
                                      Sam: A job? Does it pay?
                                      Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
                                      Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by TKR View Post
                                        The mustangs deserve to live in peace as do other animals that are wild or feral.
                                        What about when the presence of the horses endangers the other wild critters who live out there, or destroys native vegetation?

                                        The BLM has one of the most thankless jobs in government, I think.

                                        It doesn't help that many of the activists seem to make up their own facts - on another thread on this subject on another board, there are some quotes by a wild horse activist that debunk many of the more recent claims made by the cloud foundation and other groups (fencing off of water, that cattle are grazing in some places now and that's why they're moving horses, etc, etc, etc.)

                                        I've been checking out some rumors that have been circulating. My concerns are that if we are to wage an effective campaign for the horses, we darn sure need to know what we're talking about.

                                        So I've "double sourced" the following rumor control issues before posting this message.

                                        Rumor #1: Horses are dying while cattle are still out on the public lands.
                                        Answer: No cattle are on the public lands in the Star Ridge and High Creek pastures (the public lands associated with this gather.) I wanted to confirm that the grazing season is over, which is correct, but I also found out that both pastures were on "rest" this season so they weren't grazed at all by cattle over the past winter and spring.

                                        It was suggested to me that the confusion over cattle could be caused by the fact that the road to Owyhee passes through private ranches, most notably the IL Ranch. There are fenced off areas on these private ranches that hold cattle.

                                        Rumor #2: Ranchers fenced off horses from water.
                                        I hadn't thought of the answer to this one but it soon became pretty obvious. Since no cattle were turned out in the pastures, the stockmen didn't operate the wells. So it wasn't a fence out issue but rather a wells not being started up issue. My personal thought is that someone should have put two and two together on that one and made arrangements to acquire supplementary water.
                                        Using Star Ridge as an example, most water is accumulated in water catchments and is supplemented by a private well when cattle are out. The catchments have dried up since there has been almost no rainfall and of course with no cattle being run, nobody was providing supplementary water. The result was that the pasture went dry.

                                        Other notes.

                                        BLM reports having delivered 30,000 gallons of water so far. Some of the horses are drinking it. Some are not. I was told by a couple of folks that the access to the river is steep and tricky and the weaker horses are believed to not be able to make it down to the river, which explains why some of them aren't getting water.

                                        I'm attaching a photo of one of the springs on private land. You can see that the spring is not fenced, but the problem is that the spring is running so poorly this year that it's barely a tiny puddle and it takes the horses an inordinately long time to get a drink.

                                        I think the most significant lesson here is that these resources issues have to be monitored, especially when seasonal land uses (that bring in man-supplied water) are not occurring and when there is a marked decrease in normal rainfall. My experience has been that horses and other wildlife will use man supplied water sources when not in an already severely weakened state and when their mental faculties are operating correctly. Sometimes they can reach a point of weakness and being so "spacey" that they won't approach anything that is unfamiliar.

                                        Willis
                                        (frmo willis lamm - website here: http://www.kbrhorse.net/ but it's big and lots and lots of links - the war room seems to have lots of updates, and they seem relatively objective as far as this issue goes.)

                                        Not that the above is about the entire situation, but it seems to me that there are anti-BLM people out there who are assuming things and passing out rumor as fact - which honestly doesn't do anybody any good.
                                        "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                                        My CANTER blog.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X