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how much naughtiness to you tolerate?

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  • #41
    I don't tolerate naughty behavior. Period.


    Now, let me clarify. If I'm training the horse, I listen to what its telling me from the very beginning. If the horse is reacting suddenly with naughty antics, I check for pain and discomfort.

    I usually take my training slow enough, and in such a jabber that they don't have any opportunities to behave poorly.

    For 23 hours in a day, the horse is left to be a horse, for that one hour its going to behave for me.
    Originally posted by dizzywriter
    My saddle fits perfectly well. It might be a little tight around the waist, but I take care of that with those spandex things.

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    • #42
      I voted "once in a while".
      I used to enjoy the difficult rides and pretty much expected something every ride.... but I'm older now - I'm over that. I want and expect good behavior!
      Of course, it does depend on the horse and I expect more horseplay from youngsters, but I definitely don't tolerate it as well.
      Y'all ain't right!

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      • #43
        Originally Posted by shawneeAcres View Post
        I don't tolerate any behavoir other than what I ask for. I train horses and they need to be 100% solid when someone else rides them. If they learn early that work is work and they can play the rest of the day they will do so.
        Well, this is nice in theory, but I find that young horses and some not so young horses will spook. There is no such thing as 100% bombproof, at least not that I've ever had an opportunity to ride, 98% sure, but not 100%. Also, what is "naughtiness" versus legit spook or expression of confusion or discomfort?

        I don't consider it "naughtiness" when my youngster runs 3 or 4 steps when the 3 big dogs run into the arena or when he takes a couple steps sideways when a deer bounds out onto the trail right in front of him.

        I probably considered it naughtiness, but understandable (though to be corrected) when he bucked when I hit him with the dressage whip asking for a canter 55 minutes into a lesson, when he had not previously worked for more than 45 minutes at a time.

        I would not tolerate him bucking every time I asked for canter, or every time he landed off a fence or running when asked to move forward. My tolerance definitely decreases as they become more trained. On the other hand, I like them to think for themselves for safety on xc and if that occasionally means they do something I didn't ask for, it is a reasonable trade-off for me.
        OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!

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        • #44
          I checked the 100% angel - but what I expect and get are 2 different questions. When my horse works fer her 5 hrs/week I do NOT feel like it's a lot to ask for her to give me 100%. Sometimes she gives it, most times I have to push to get it - but learning to improve her performance is what makes me a better rider.
          Now in Kentucky

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          • #45
            My dressage trainer once told me: "the horse is allowed to have an opinion too". That's how I feel. The odd buck or something expressing spunkiness, unhappiness, whatever, is totally okay, though not always welcome
            Vancouver Equine
            www.vaneq.com

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            • #46
              Originally posted by scubed View Post
              Well, this is nice in theory, but I find that young horses and some not so young horses will spook. There is no such thing as 100% bombproof, at least not that I've ever had an opportunity to ride, 98% sure, but not 100%. Also, what is "naughtiness" versus legit spook or expression of confusion or discomfort?

              I don't consider it "naughtiness" when my youngster runs 3 or 4 steps when the 3 big dogs run into the arena or when he takes a couple steps sideways when a deer bounds out onto the trail right in front of him.

              I probably considered it naughtiness, but understandable (though to be corrected) when he bucked when I hit him with the dressage whip asking for a canter 55 minutes into a lesson, when he had not previously worked for more than 45 minutes at a time.

              I would not tolerate him bucking every time I asked for canter, or every time he landed off a fence or running when asked to move forward. My tolerance definitely decreases as they become more trained. On the other hand, I like them to think for themselves for safety on xc and if that occasionally means they do something I didn't ask for, it is a reasonable trade-off for me.
              I think you are really twisting what I said here, I said I don't tolerate it, meaning, yes a youngster will spook, or may have some silly moments and I don't go OVERBOARD with the correction, but I DO correct it. That is IGNORING These things will lead to them becoming more and more habitual. I DO allow my horses to think for themselves WHEN it is appropritae and rarely is a green horse capable of doing so. However I let them "think thru" the process if you understand what I mean. I confront them with soemthing new, say walking thru a water puddle, encourage them to do so and allow them to take the time to process and think THRU what I want, coming to a "decision" to do it. Yes they will have silly moments and toss their head after a fence, big deal, that to me is not naughtiness. However, throwing in a buck, even in fun is corrected quickly, as it can become a habit that I do not want to ignore or encourage.
              www.shawneeacres.net

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              • #47
                Originally posted by scubed View Post
                Well, this is nice in theory, but I find that young horses and some not so young horses will spook. There is no such thing as 100% bombproof, at least not that I've ever had an opportunity to ride, 98% sure, but not 100%. Also, what is "naughtiness" versus legit spook or expression of confusion or discomfort?

                I don't consider it "naughtiness" when my youngster runs 3 or 4 steps when the 3 big dogs run into the arena or when he takes a couple steps sideways when a deer bounds out onto the trail right in front of him.
                IMO that's where "appropriate discipline" comes into play. For a small, legitimate spook or a feel-good buck, appropriate discipline might be simply putting the horse more strongly on the aids for a couple of strides.

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                • #48
                  I think a lot of the differences come from differing interpretations of "tolerate".

                  Few of us want our horses to buck. Yet many of us are not terribly surprised at a feeling good buck from a youngster or an irritated bounce from a correction. Is it acceptable? Not to me. Is it a cause for concern and retraining? Depends very much on the horse and situation. I think many folks who are saying they tolerate some "naughty" behaviors mean that they are not surprised and correct mildly when they think the situation warrants it. Reinforce the good behavior but dont over-focus on correcting.

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                  • #49
                    The question is flawed. Experiencing misbehavior and tolerating misbehavior are two separate things. Tolerating means ignoring or neglecting to address a misbehavior. Just because a rider is experiencing naughty behavior doesn't mean they are tolerating it.

                    Just as some people are very Type-A, emotional, and quick to react, so are some horses. A difficult horse can and will figure out that misbehavior is non-productive when consistently made to think harder and work harder after acting out. Even the best training, however, cannot overcome the God-given personality of the horse. It may shape it into something very manageable for an experienced rider, but not every horse can be molded into an ammy-friendly angel.

                    There are horses I expect to honest angels and horses I expect to be willful, argumenative heathens because that's simply who they are. I expect both types to give 100% of what's asked of them. The second type simply requires more tact to get it out of them.
                    "I did know once, only I've sort of forgotten." - Winnie the Pooh

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                    • Original Poster

                      #50
                      [QUOTE=Aggie4Bar;4999936]The question is flawed. Experiencing misbehavior and tolerating misbehavior are two separate things. Tolerating means ignoring or neglecting to address a misbehavior. Just because a rider is experiencing naughty behavior doesn't mean they are tolerating it.[QUOTE]

                      I did mention in a later post that the question is flawed. When I say, "tolerate", I am thinking of choosing to/or not to work with a horse who exhibits such behaviors. So if I had said, "Who experiences..." that would not convey what I was really asking either. My thought process was, "What is your tolerance level, in terms of working with horses?" I know of some people who won't even comtemplate getting on something less than "bombproof". Then again, there are some who really like the challenge of exuberant horses, and chuckle at bucks, scoots, rears, etc. Whether they are punished or not, is something that I would *think* is a given....
                      I have seen several people on this board talk about the "silly" things their horses do.

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by 2boys View Post
                        My thought process was, "What is your tolerance level, in terms of working with horses?" I know of some people who won't even comtemplate getting on something less than "bombproof". Then again, there are some who really like the challenge of exuberant horses, and chuckle at bucks, scoots, rears, etc.
                        This thread is certainly interesting reading. I think for me it depends on the personality of the horse quite significantly. I don't necessarily mind a horse that might spook occasionally or pull a bad-day-grumpy-act once in a while PROVIDED it was something I could work with.

                        An example of what I mean is one of the lesson horses I used to ride was seriously totally and utterly petrified of deer. Convinced they were horse-eating monsters, which made riding in the arena fun during hunting season when deer tended to come out of the woods nearby and be hanging out in eyesight of one end. If you weren't on your game and paying attention, you were likely to get a very fast trip from the deer end to the 'safe' end as soon as he spotted them. But if you were actually paying attention and gave him something to do to keep HIS attention on you, while he might notice them, he would follow your lead.

                        Similarly, another lesson horse was used mainly for beginners, and so developed bad habits like turning into the center of the arena when HE thought it was time to stop. So every so often he'd be used for intermediate lessons, and again - if you let him, he'd try out his trick. But if you said 'nice try, but no' firmly, he wouldn't escalate his objection.

                        So for me, I guess it's that I don't mind them having fears or opinions, but I want them to be honest and respectful about it. I don't want to deal with a horse that's more intent on flipping out at something than paying attention to me, or one who is so determined to get his way that he'll take things to the point where they're dangerous. (Rearing, serious bucking to try to get you off, that sort of thing.)

                        I mean, they're living creatures, so it's not fair to expect them to be perfect all the time. But I think it is fair to want them to be willing to work with you.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          While I don't ENJOY the challenges my mare offers to me, nor do I specifically encourage her methods of communication that include bucking, counter bending, ugly faces, etc, I have learned to pick my battles.

                          If she's basically doing what I ask, for example, extending her trot WHILE making an ugly face.. then I just ignore it. She's doing what I ask, but she's also letting me know what she thinks of it. That's fine, I understand she's a mare with plenty of opinions to express.

                          However, if it gets out of hand (ie, more than one half-hearted buck, snaking the head excessively, etc), then I will let her know that's not acceptable behavior. But if I nitpicked at her for every. single. thing. she ever does that I don't like, then our rides would be nothing but one big fight. Like I said, I've learned to pick my battles.

                          Whoever said "Horses are allowed to have opinions too", totally agreed.
                          Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

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