• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

In our continuing effort to provide an avenue for individuals to voice their opinions and experiences, we have recently reviewed and updated our forum policies. Generally, we have allowed users to share their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, trainers, etc. within the industry, and that is not changing.

When it came to overt criminal allegations, however, those discussions have in the past needed to stem from a report by a reputable news source or action by law enforcement or the legal system.

We are now expanding our policies to allow posters to share their own first-hand experiences involving overt criminal allegations, such as animal abuse or neglect, theft, etc., but only if they publicly provide their full first and last name along with the post. We still will not allow anonymous postings alleging criminal activity.

So, a user may now make a specific claim against a named individual or company, but it must be a FIRST-HAND account, and they have to IDENTIFY THEMSELVES. Users have always been legally responsible for their posts, and nothing has changed there, but we want to loosen the reins a bit and further allow the free flow of discussion and information relevant to the horse community.

We are not providing a free-for-all of anonymous rumor-mongering. As enduring advocates for the welfare of the horse, we want to provide a forum for those willing to sign their name and shine a light on issues of concern to them in the industry.

The full revised rules are posted at the top of each forum for reference.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums’ policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

I Own a Kicker-What Else Can I Do?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I Own a Kicker-What Else Can I Do?

    Hello. I'm new here... literally just signed up. So... hi there ^^;
    I come bearing a problem. Of course. lol
    I have a colt who is almost four years old now. He has developed a kicking problem that has persisted for several months. I've been trying my best to instill some respect in him in combat of that, but it doesn't seem to be helping much. I generally roundpen him when he starts getting bad, and work on trying to make him listen to me at all times every time I ask. I also have him yield his hindquarters, back up by me simply walking toward him with the right body language, I even have him follow me and lead with no halter. All of that he can do without a halter or rope or anything, 100% tackless, just like in the herd, although he is always very hesitant to pick up to a canter and I have to get after him. He will start being good again, with a fair bit of respect. As a matter of fact, 90% of the time he does what I ask or at least tries even when he hasn't been roundpenned recently. It's just random occasions where he says "no" and sometimes kicks. Of course, then 10% or less of the time he doesn't do as asked is very dangerous and someone is going to eventually get hurt. Tonight, it was almost him. He tried to kick when I told him to move his hindquarters away so I could get by while he was eating his dinner, and he said "no not today" and tried to kick me. I got out of way as best I could, still trying not to take pressure off by yielding more than just enough to not die. Well, he missed, and kicked his foot through one of the open places on the gate. You know, like the places between the bars. It got stuck for several seconds before he pulled it out, thankfully keeping a calm demeanor about it. That is one of many good things about him, he is very calm and levelheaded and can think his way out of most situations with ease. Hopefully he isn't sore tomorrow. He was putting plenty of weight on it and didn't appear lame thankfully. I'd like to hope that he taught himself a lesson, but knowing him I somehow doubt it. Assuming he didn't teach himself a lesson... is there any way I can eliminate the times he says "no"? Again, it's kind of random when he does say no. I guess sometimes he just isn't feeling it. I believe the answer is that he is still not 100% respectful, but I don't know what else to do than I have been doing, which is making him move his feet and work when he kicks (except when he is tied so I can't, and even then I generally make him yield his hindquarters). He does seem to be worse when he is tied. That is, he kicks more often. I have also noticed that he is much more respectful if the human is holding a "weapon" such as a whip, rope, or even some random object. If you go with nothing, he seems to know that you are defenseless. I have tried working with him in the roundpen without anything in my hands and picking up the whip when necessary, and also hiding a whip behind my back and when he acts out, pull it out and give him a smack for it to send him off with some reprimand (I equate this to one horse kicking or biting a lesser horse for not listening to him when he says move). That seemed to work the last time I tried a bit, so maybe I should keep trying that... what do you people think?
    I'll be darned if I ever own another dominant horse, haha.I seem to be incompetent at it and it is stressful. Of course I love him and wouldn't get rid of him except for his own good, but... gah.

  • #2
    First, is he trying to double barrel you or just cow kicks forwards? Sounds like double barrel?

    Second, if the horse has a ten per cent chance turning around and double barelling you, why are you ever in his presence without having control of his head? I would not roundpen or do liberty work with such a horse and I would not try to push past him in his stall while he is eating. I would not handle him without a longe whip.

    Third I don't know if you are able to read warning signs or if he really does kick with no warning.

    I don't know if this is a dangerous horse but the combination of you and him is dangerous. Getting kicked does serious damage and can kill you.

    I would suggest getting a very competent trouble shooting kind of trainer on board as it's clear you don't have the skillset to fix this. A good trainer can either fix or definitively tell you the horse is dangerous and shouldn't be handled.

    I personally would not work with a horse that deliberately kicked towards people, period.

    Comment


    • #3
      You say colt..is he not gelded yet? That would be my first call...to the vet! I second a trainer that can help sort him out as it sounds as if you are not experienced enough to train him.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        He double barrels.

        I also did not say that he kicked with no warning. I do believe I just mentioned an entire phenomenon where he tried to kick and I moved out of his way. It's not like I managed to lightning bolt out of the way of his legs after his feet left the ground. I saw it coming from his body language. He gave plenty of warning, hence why I moved out of the area I knew he would kick at.

        I also do not believe bad horses exist, and therefore do not believe horses who can not be worked with exist. The view that such a thing does exist is often also held by a person who views a horse more like a machine than an emotional and spiritual being. Therefore, not working with him is not an option to me and I do not believe in putting animals down because of stupid human errors, so if you are suggesting that do not waste your energy typing it.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          He is gelded as well. I have never heard of "colt" meaning not gelded but rather under about 4 years old. A non-gelded horse is a stallion, not a colt...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mistatrustfundkid View Post
            He double barrels.

            I also did not say that he kicked with no warning. I do believe I just mentioned an entire phenomenon where he tried to kick and I moved out of his way. It's not like I managed to lightning bolt out of the way of his legs after his feet left the ground. I saw it coming from his body language. He gave plenty of warning, hence why I moved out of the area I knew he would kick at.

            I also do not believe bad horses exist, and therefore do not believe horses who can not be worked with exist. The view that such a thing does exist is often also held by a person who views a horse more like a machine than an emotional and spiritual being. Therefore, not working with him is not an option to me and I do not believe in putting animals down because of stupid human errors, so if you are suggesting that do not waste your energy typing it.
            I don't know if this horse is dangerous for everyone or in a general sense.

            I do believe he is dangerous to you and you should get experienced help.

            The question of whether a horse is inherently dangerous or made so by incompetent handling is moot. Right now you have a horse that could kill you. Maybe someone can change his behavior.

            You don't need to euth a dangerous horse, just give him early retirement on pasture or range.

            I don't think you should work with this horse at liberty until you get a more experienced trainer on board.

            Comment


            • #7
              OP who suggested euthanasia? Don't see anyone recommending that. But everytime he tries to kick you and you move away from him, you are teaching him he can kick at you. There are very specific things that can be done to nip this in the bud, as safely as possible for the handler and the horse. A trainer would be a great place to start

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mistatrustfundkid View Post
                He double barrels.

                I also did not say that he kicked with no warning. I do believe I just mentioned an entire phenomenon where he tried to kick and I moved out of his way. It's not like I managed to lightning bolt out of the way of his legs after his feet left the ground. I saw it coming from his body language. He gave plenty of warning, hence why I moved out of the area I knew he would kick at.

                I also do not believe bad horses exist, and therefore do not believe horses who can not be worked with exist. The view that such a thing does exist is often also held by a person who views a horse more like a machine than an emotional and spiritual being. Therefore, not working with him is not an option to me and I do not believe in putting animals down because of stupid human errors, so if you are suggesting that do not waste your energy typing it.
                If he gave "plenty" of warning, why didn't you intervene/redirect/discipline before he was able to kick? From your post it was unclear whether he kicked and missed you or you were able to move out of the way. Either way, you need to work with a professional with experience dealing with young horses and behavioral problems. This kind of behavior is one that can get you killed.

                No one said your horse was unworkable or should be put down, just that you don't sound like the appropriate person to be dealing with this issue. You shouldn't be trying to move past a horse who is known to double barrel while it is eating.

                Your horse is a gelding, though colloquially used to describe any young male horse, it means an in tact young male horse.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Yes, I realize that moving away from him is not helping the behavior, but me getting killed won't help him either. Normally I wouldn't just move out of his way but at this moment I didn't have anything to reprimand him with, and every time I just hit him with my hand he just kicks again. I also was in a rather bad position to be doing so. For clarity, my normal route to take when he kicks is to move his feet away from me often alongside a single good swift spank. Had his leg not gotten caught in the gate, I would have (immediately after he kicked) started moving his feet, but by the time he got his foot unstuck it was too late for a correction. I will give an example of a more normal situation. I ask him to move over while he is eating (one of his main problems is when he is tied and eating, not listening to me, but a respectful horse will move away from his food when you ask anyway and I'm not even asking him to do that most of the time) and he sometimes says no and threatens to kick or does so. When he does, he normally gets a swift hard swat with whatever I have even if I don't have anything but my hands, and then I make him get over the way I was asking so he has to do it anyway. When he is at liberty or in a halter (he seldom kicks in these situations but it has happened) and does it I will get after him and make him run for it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mistatrustfundkid View Post
                    Yes, I realize that moving away from him is not helping the behavior, but me getting killed won't help him either. Normally I wouldn't just move out of his way but at this moment I didn't have anything to reprimand him with, and every time I just hit him with my hand he just kicks again. I also was in a rather bad position to be doing so. For clarity, my normal route to take when he kicks is to move his feet away from me often alongside a single good swift spank. Had his leg not gotten caught in the gate, I would have (immediately after he kicked) started moving his feet, but by the time he got his foot unstuck it was too late for a correction. I will give an example of a more normal situation. I ask him to move over while he is eating (one of his main problems is when he is tied and eating, not listening to me, but a respectful horse will move away from his food when you ask anyway and I'm not even asking him to do that most of the time) and he sometimes says no and threatens to kick or does so. When he does, he normally gets a swift hard swat with whatever I have even if I don't have anything but my hands, and then I make him get over the way I was asking so he has to do it anyway.
                    Get a trainer on board ASAP.

                    Until then don't go into his stall. Don't go near him without a whip. Don't work him when you don't have control of his head.

                    OP you know this is a bad situation or you wouldn't be asking us for help. You have tried to fix this problem and haven't been able to. It's good that you are asking.

                    But we don't have any simple or obvious solution because this behavior is a dynamic created between the two of you.

                    You need a trainer on hand IRL to change that dynamic. We can't do it by chat group.

                    Your are creating a dangerous horse moment by moment here.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      First off, this is not a situation where he was in a stall. We don't even have stalls that are currently useable. He was just tied against a wall of the barn, which we use like a run-in.

                      Second, I have yet to find any reputable trainers in my area. I live in the smack dab middle of Redneckville. You know, yee yee and jacked up trucks that tailgate everyone. I would much rather use a trainer than an online forum. Believe me. I wouldn't come here to ask for help if I had any other decent option. Edit: Though come to think of it, I do know of a lady who has trained horses before that answers questions by email (though she gets a lot of emails so she may not respond). That's worth a shot I guess... she also does training sessions over Skype or something for a price, but I'm not sure how that would work.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you could give a general location someone on this board might be able to make suggestions even in the middle of no-where.
                        You need a trainer ASAP.
                        "Anyone who tries to make brownies without butter should be arrested." Ina Garten

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          General location... Haralson County, Georgia. Edit:
                          it needs to be a trainer who will work with ME and the horse since if they don't then once they are gone it won't matter. Also they need to be able to come to my barn instead of the other way around. I don't have a trailer. And I would highly prefer a liberty or natural horsemanship trainer or someone that is a bit of a combination of the two. Also on a budget and also only looking for someone temporary. I don't want to keep a trainer scheduled or something, just to be able to schedule them when necessary would be pretty great though.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Welcome! First impressions are everything. You have had some valuable advice given, I hope you take it.

                            Paragraphs are your friend and makes for a much easier read, please use them.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Well it sure is a good thing if I ever meet any of these people in real life they have no idea who I am then It's not hard to just not come back to any social media platform lol. That said I literally just tried to listen to some of that advice so you can relax my dude

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                A couple of things here that I see:

                                You say you round pen him when "he starts getting bad." Reactionary training (fixing problems) is often a day late and a dollar short. He already has the behavior.

                                Round penning also means different things to different people. Some people chase a horse in circles (ineffective), others use a round pen to work the horse's mind. There should be a LOT of direction changes (inward to you, not into the fence) and a lot of speed changes at YOUR direction. Do not work with this horse in your personal space until he is respectful on the fence.

                                Second, you say he is thoughtful and deliberate. He's kicking because he doesn't think you are the boss and he thinks he can get away with it. If you are ducking and moving out of his way, in his mind, he has already won. It doesn't really matter what happens after that. (I picture leading him away to the round pen AFTER the incident, when its too late). He'll have no way to tie the kicking to the workload. Because he is so deliberate, he should never be given the opportunity. Everything you do with him, from feeding to grooming to working should all be with this in mind. You should NEVER put yourself in a situation when you are not 100% ready to keep yourself safe and react to any outbursts from him immediately. Never be in a hurry to just feed and get out of there. ALWAYS be ready to invest a little extra time.

                                Respond in kind. If he is kicking with his hind end, get him really good at disengaging. If he reaches out to try to tag you, feel free to make him think you are ready to END HIM because that is what he was just doing to you. I would swat him on the offending hip with a whip once (HARD) and move those feet RIGHT NOW. Do not feel bad or guilty. Do not get angry. Be deliberate. Make the consequence really undesirable.

                                If he were mine, he would be kept separate and in the round pen. I would feed him in there. Move him off of his feed periodically. Only let him come into his feed if he is polite. When you step into that pen, he should be facing you, ears on you, asking "what would you like from me?" He should be moving off that feed as you approach (with his eyes/ears on you) Right now, you are getting pony finger, and its dangerous.

                                He is salvageable for sure, most of them are, its going to take time, consistency, and patience.

                                If you are not ready or able to put in the work, send him to a trainer or find him another home.

                                If you keep accepting dangerous behavior, you will have yourself a dangerous horse. if you let it go too long, he will be harder to fix and then yes, you may find yourself with a lawsuit after he hurts a friend, in the hospital (or a pine box) if he hurts you, or making a hard decision about his future (or lack thereof).

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Also, try checking out Carson James (trainer) he has some really relevant videos on his members page that you m ay find insightful. good luck!!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Well, no horse trainer here. Obviously be as safe as possible and be super aware of the range of a horse’s back legs. I agree that it is a good idea to have another set of eyes on the situation- it can be helpful to look at not just how the horse is behaving, but also possibly things that you are doing (or not doing) that might need some tweaking.

                                    But if you are on your own, my thoughts would be to go back a step or two with your horse, to in hand work rather than round pen work. Retrain the basics of working in hand before testing him in a situation (such as feeding) that might precipitate a kick. Make sure that he is really good at moving over- front end, hind end, forward and backwards- maybe with a flag initially to help move him over safely, but then also just with a light touch from your hand. Make sure he is good at halting and standing until told to move forward. Do this with a halter so that you can pull his head and body around quickly if it looks like he is going to kick. Once you feel comfortable with that, then train him to accept a grain bin politely- again with a halter and lead rope, ask him to back up and stand quietly before he is allowed to walk up to the grain bin. Work up from there- to asking him to move his body around and stand when asked while he is around the food, then eating, but with a halter and lead rope on until he is calm and trustworthy.

                                    Lastly, have you heard of Andrew McLean and Equitation Science? Check out some of the stuff on YouTube- there are some interesting ideas there that you might find helpful.

                                    Good luck with your horse. I went through some issues with my mare around feeding when I first got her. We worked through it. It took a while. I was just thinking about that the other day as I was feeding our horses in the pasture- she is now the best of the bunch at feeding time (next project, the two year old...such a troublemaker.....).




                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I have a horse who liked to nip when he was younger. Actually, I’m sure he’d still like to nip now but the years and training have kept it under control. He is the friendliest, most personable gelding you could ever meet. I say nip instead of bite because he never did the vicious, mouth open, lunge at you thing. No, he was sneaky and would nuzzle, nuzzle, bite. Still not acceptable.

                                      He got my husband several times but never me. Because I was always prepared for him. I tried “nice” methods to make him stop, nothing worked. I think the turning point for him (with me at least) is when I was cleaning a front hoof, he swung his head over and I nailed him with my elbow, hard.

                                      OP, if you must work with this horse by yourself, always be prepared. Carry a whip, set things up so you don’t have to be close to his hindquarters etc. Stop tieing him so you have to slide by him. Teach him when loose to always face you, yes it will take a lunge whip.

                                      I owned a kicker for 19 years. Did she kick all that time, no. But she was a horse that didn’t accept change well and I always kept in mind that she might think with her feet when stressed.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I'm not sure how to say this nicely, but you sound like a bit of a pushover when it comes to this horse. I'd do anything for my ponies, but the nanosecond one so much as lifts a leg at me, all hell is going to break loose. Aftermath round penning is too delayed to be effective. I'd never handle this horse loose again. The second he starts to kick, I'd snatch his head one way to disengage the hindquarters, and then id let him have it with a stiff whip.

                                        Also, be open to a "redneck" trainer. Talking slow and having a jacked up truck doesn't keep someone from being good with horses. But be aware that 99% of trainers are going to give this horse a badly needed come-to-jesus moment, which may make you uncomfortable.

                                        Best of luck, and be open to COTH advice. This group has always been knowledgeable and helpful when I've needed something.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X