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Do Hunts re-locate foxes?

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  • Do Hunts re-locate foxes?

    So, as the question asked, do hunts trap and re-locate foxes to their hunt territories? I know virtually nothing about fox hunts and how they operate, so forgive me if this is a totally stupid question.

    The situation is a pair of foxes that are living in a suburban neighborhood and denning on the property of someone I know. Unfortunately, the foxes seem to have lost their natural fear of people because they are being seen more and more often. The property owner and neighbors are not pleased and want them gone. This is not my neighborhood and I do not share in their viewpoint, I also have no say in how they finally dispose of the foxes. I did mention to the homeowner that I would ask if a fox hunt was interested in the foxes before he has a pest control company deal with the foxes.

    The foxes are located in the Scranton area of Pennsylvania.
    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
    Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
    Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

  • #2
    It may be against the law.
    In New York, for example, it is illegal to relocate raccoons. Which I don't really understand, since you CAN have them exterminated. Moving them to a less human populated area would seem the better choice, but its the law.
    So the first question is "it is legal to relocate foxes" in your state.

    Comment


    • #3
      Chall... that confused me also, about the whole "cannot relocate but you can shoot" thing with raccoons. But then someone told me that it is actually more cruel to dump a raccoon in another raccoons territory (because they will fight) than just shooting it. Plus, there is the whole what if raccoon is diseased and it spreads the illness thing and it is not like they are in short supply.

      I don't know about foxes, though.

      Comment


      • #4
        http://www.animal-trapping.com/c-108...l-control.aspx
        ... _. ._ .._. .._

        Comment


        • #5
          Some hunts do. It depends on your area and the hunt. Once a fox has been relocated to a particular hunt territory (or fixture) that property may not be hunted for a set period of time per the MFHA.
          You should call the particular hunt in your area and discuss it with them.
          "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Jaegermonster View Post
            Some hunts do. It depends on your area and the hunt. Once a fox has been relocated to a particular hunt territory (or fixture) that property may not be hunted for a set period of time per the MFHA.
            You should call the particular hunt in your area and discuss it with them.
            I'm glad to hear that some hunts will do this. The foxes are located in the Scranton, PA area and I am in southern NJ. I am honestly not familiar with any hunts. Does anyone know if there is a hunt in that general area of PA? If so, any way to help me get in contact with them? Thank you.
            Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
            Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
            Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

            Comment


            • #7
              Why not skip the hunt master and contact PA wildlife rehabiliters who will absolutely know the best place to relocate foxes as well as the local laws.
              Good luck. The first one listed has a phone number about 3/4 of the way down with this quote:
              "Don’t call a commercial animal and pest control company first
              Do call us first with any wildlife problem at 610.240.0883
              Contact a Licensed Wildlife Rehabilitator before relocating any wild animal. We can provide proven procedures using light and sound to convince a wildlife family to relocate themselves. Keep in mind that besides for being expensive, commercial animal and pest control companies destroy all the animals captured. It is Pennsylvania State law. "
              http://www.diamondrockwildlife.org/
              http://www.wildliferescue-pa.com/
              http://www.aark.org/aark/Home.html
              http://redcreekwildlifecenter.com/
              http://pawr.com/public/?page_id=7
              http://www.schuylkillcenter.org/

              Comment


              • #8
                Hunt Masters, IME, are very well versed in local hunting and wildlife laws, esp. those pertaining to foxes, it's just the nature of the beast. And by contacting the local hunt you can be assured that the fox will not be hunted in that territory until he has had such time to establish himself and learn his way around.
                In any event, you now have options, and can find hunts in your area by going to www.mfha.org or googling Masters of Foxhounds Association. There is a tab on the mfha page to a list of hunts by state.
                "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ADM7040 View Post
                  I'm glad to hear that some hunts will do this. The foxes are located in the Scranton, PA area and I am in southern NJ. I am honestly not familiar with any hunts. Does anyone know if there is a hunt in that general area of PA? If so, any way to help me get in contact with them? Thank you.

                  When crossing state lines, you get the federal people involved.

                  It is absolutely positively with no exceptions not allowed.

                  However if they are to remain in Pa, PA law will rule.

                  CSSJR

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    PA must have the worst public information set up in the entire country.

                    It really sucks.

                    However, I did find this and it looks like the best bet for the OP.

                    http://www.diamondrockwildlife.org/


                    CSSJR

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The legalities might be the easiest part of the relocation! I've been wanting to trap and relocate our fox families for a few years, but they are elusive little buggers.

                      Good luck with the process and fill us in on how you make out.
                      Alison Howard
                      Homestead Farms, Maryland www.freshorganicvegetables.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        the foxes seem to have lost their natural fear of people because they are being seen more and more often. The property owner and neighbors are not pleased and want them gone.
                        probably better to educate the people than to kill the foxes (fast by shooting, slowly and very cruelly by "relocating"). Foxes generally have no fear of people, provide excellent rodent control, and pose no threat to the people. If you take this family out another fox will just move in.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by cssutton View Post
                          When crossing state lines, you get the federal people involved.

                          It is absolutely positively with no exceptions not allowed.

                          However if they are to remain in Pa, PA law will rule.

                          CSSJR
                          The foxes are located in a friend's neighborhood in PA and I am trying to find a local hunt who may be interested in re-locating this pair. I mentioned that I was in Southern NJ to say that I am not knowledgeable about the local hunts of that area. There is absolutely no reason why I want to transport the foxes to NJ and I did not intend to make people think I was trying to transport them to my area. I am assuming that whoever is going to take the time to set the traps is going to need to be local in order to ensure that the foxes are not in the trap for any extended period of time in the heat of summer.
                          Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
                          Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
                          Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by wendy View Post
                            probably better to educate the people than to kill the foxes (fast by shooting, slowly and very cruelly by "relocating"). Foxes generally have no fear of people, provide excellent rodent control, and pose no threat to the people. If you take this family out another fox will just move in.
                            As I stated in my original post, I do not live in this neighborhood, I actually live 3 hours away and in another state. I do not agree with re-locating the foxes, I would leave them where they are if it was my property. The property owner and neighbors are suburbanites and they are not going to change their minds about eradicating the foxes from their neighborhood. Unfortunately, if another fox family manages to find their way to this neighborhood, they will probably have the same fate.

                            As far as killing the foxes "very cruelly by relocating", I do not agree with you. Several people have provided info on the hunt masters and wildlife groups who have success with doing just this. The foxes will not simply be "dumped" in another area without care for how they will survive.

                            I will contact these groups and see if one of them is interested in relocating these foxes. Thank you to everyone who provided information, I will let you know if we find someone to relocate them and what the future is for the foxes. Unfortunately, if I don't come to post a follow up, that will mean that the property owner chose to go the pest control route instead.
                            Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
                            Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
                            Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There is a right way to relocate wild animals, and a wrong way.

                              If you deal with a hunt club or wildlife org/rehabber, they'll do it the right way and the animal(s) will be ok.

                              If you run across someone who just traps and dumps animals willy nilly, then yeah, you know that's just gonna be horrible.

                              The trouble with trapping and relocating this time of year is that you mentioned they have a den - which means babies.

                              Depending on when the kits were born they may or may not be able to survive on their own if the parents are trapped.

                              A pest control company isn't going to take any of that into consideration - so by trapping the parents an entire family may be killed.

                              The neighbor may be seeing foxes more frequently only because the foxes are more active now, as they are attempting to obtain food to feed their young. The sightings may diminish after the cubs leave home and strike out to find their own territory.

                              I understand if these folks want the foxes gone if the foxes are preying on their pets or livestock. But if they are just seeing them, it's very sad that they aren't just enjoying these wonderful animals.

                              If you cannot locate someone to help them, you might also contact the game dept and see if they can provide a referral. Sometimes a good person to talk to is the local game warden. He is likely to know the local hunt clubs, ethical people to deal with, that sort of thing.

                              I hope everything works out and they are able to either co-exist with the fox family, or that they are relocated or dispatched humanely.

                              Good luck.
                              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                              -Rudyard Kipling

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Great post full of good information JSwan. I had not thought that the increased sightings may be a result of looking for food for the kits. I will tell the homeowner about this possibility. He is not a cruel man, just a typical suburbanite who does not really feel all that comfortable with "real" nature. He and his neighbors fear rabies and the foxes biting children and pets. The idea of babies may soften his heart and buy some time to allow them to finish raising the kits and see if they see less of them afterwards.

                                I should be so lucky as to have a pair of foxes denning on my farm! Instead I have a rat infestation that moved in after the ungodly amount of snow that was dumped on Southern NJ this winter. They ignore my poison and invite more friends to come and enjoy the good living. I have heard that skunks will kill rats as well, I would (almost!) welcome some skunks even at this point! That would become like the parable and I would need something to get rid of the skunks, then something to get rid of what got the skunks out and so on until I was up to the tiger being chased away by the elephant! Anyone have some efficient rat terriers that they want to bring over to my place for some hunting????

                                I am making calls this afternoon and contacting the game warden in that area will be my first priority.

                                Thanks again to Jswan and everyone else who provided suggestions!
                                Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
                                Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
                                Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by headsupheelsdown View Post
                                  Chall... that confused me also, about the whole "cannot relocate but you can shoot" thing with raccoons. But then someone told me that it is actually more cruel to dump a raccoon in another raccoons territory (because they will fight) than just shooting it. Plus, there is the whole what if raccoon is diseased and it spreads the illness thing and it is not like they are in short supply.

                                  I don't know about foxes, though.
                                  The (il)legality of relocation may have to do with rabies. Apparently rabies was rare to nonexistent in the Northeast until, due to a declining raccoon population, some hunters imported some raccoons from further south. And now rabies incidence is increasing. (I think I maybe read about this about "vaccinating for rabies" thread? Either that, or in reading about raccoon removal somewhere.)

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    racoons are a much bigger "rabies" AND nuisance threat than foxes.

                                    We've happily co-existed with foxes here for a long period of time, and I can tell you that years you DON'T see a lot of fox activity are the years the rabbits and squirrels are going to be destroying your yard, garden, and house, and the mice and rats will invade your buildings. We LOVE foxes.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by wendy View Post
                                      racoons are a much bigger "rabies" AND nuisance threat than foxes.

                                      We've happily co-existed with foxes here for a long period of time, and I can tell you that years you DON'T see a lot of fox activity are the years the rabbits and squirrels are going to be destroying your yard, garden, and house, and the mice and rats will invade your buildings. We LOVE foxes.
                                      My comment about raccoons wasn't to say which is the bigger nuisance (raccoons vs foxes), but to address the previous poster's point about being allowed to shoot raccoons but not relocate them.

                                      As for the incidence of rabies among foxes vs raccoons, I've no idea. But I wonder whether authorities would necessarily take that into consideration and have an "okay to relocate foxes and squirrels but not raccoons and rabbits" policy. I'd think they'd be more likely to just make a blanket policy about relocating wildlife.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        I do have an update on the situation. I told the homeowner about JSwan's comment on the possibility of the increased sightings being due to the parents needing to hunt more to provide for babies. He is going to give them some more time and see if the sightings will decrease when the kits leave the den to strike out on their own (hopefully not to another yard in the same neighborhood!) then maybe they can go back to peaceful co-existence.

                                        I have provided him the numbers for the local Game Warden (who is away on vacation right now) and for the wildlife rehabbers in the area. I will try to follow up with him next month and see what happens.
                                        Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
                                        Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
                                        Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

                                        Comment

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