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Clear photo of a sewn bridle?

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  • Clear photo of a sewn bridle?

    Can anyone point me to a photo of a flat, sewn bridle?

    I've been trying to explain to someone the difference between raised & flat tack (and why a raised caveson & noseband would not exactly be likely on a bridle from 1192 ;-) - but the photo of the flat bridle that I found shows one with buckles.

    Surely someone here has a "real" hunting bridle? Perhaps for an appointments class?

    Thanks.
    Approved helmet: Every time; every ride.
    "When a sport gets to be predictable it ceases to be fun." - RAR's wise brother

  • #2
    Is this more what you are looking for?
    Attached Files
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • #3
      Or these? Copied from another thread...


      http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...iews/bev14.jpg


      http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...views/bev6.jpg


      These weren't true sewn in bridles if memory serves, they had the studs, but from 'this distance' the look is the same.
      Last edited by Beverley; Nov. 14, 2007, 06:09 PM. Reason: fix link

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      • #4
        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=012

        I think there are others offered on eBay at the moment, to give an idea

        Comment


        • #5
          That bridle on ebay is a nice bridle but is not a sewn in one. We've got one at the farm. I'll have to see if I can take some close up photos.
          -Painted Wings

          Set youself apart from the crowd, ride a paint horse, you're sure to be spotted

          Comment


          • #6
            You can take a hook-stud bridle and have your saddler remove the hook-stud and 2 loops on the back of each fastening, then sew the bit in - I've seen that work nicely if the stitching is neat.

            Not a photo, but this passage from http://www.oldandsold.com/articles05/horse-4.shtml is interesting:

            "In the construction of bridles we find three basic patterns. A few have reins which buckle in, as do the bits. These are ugly, bulky and, worse still, a hopeless chore to keep clean and neat. They are usually found only in cheaper grades or reclaimed military equipment. The majority of bridles on the market are finished with the so called "hook-in stud" for both reins and bits. These have all the advantages of buckles and are far neater in appearance. Dirt and grease will fill in around the attachments, but they can be cleaned with effort. For the utmost in satisfaction I advise that the reins and bits be stitched in permanently. Pick a good bridle and a bit to suit your needs and have your saddler finish them properly. In theory one may wish to keep switching bits in and out of any given bridle, but practically it just doesn't work out that way. It is a good idea to have one old hook-in bridle for such experiments, but for the most part one should do less messing with various bittings and concentrate upon the skill to use any simple pattern which meets requirements. A sewn-in bit has many advantages. It is the mark of the competent workman and is the only type acceptable in the hunting field or show ring. My reason for favoring it, however, is that it is so much easier to keep clean."

            "There is one more type of bridle which will be of great use and should be in every owner's stable. It is the simple watering bridle. This useful device consists of a pair of reins and a pair of snaps fastened to an old bit. In the case of a pelham bit two pairs of reins and a curb chain are required. The reins may be stout, well oiled leather or heavy canvas webbing. BV fastening the two snaps to the halter we have a bridle that will serve in emergencies and it will do for hacking on those rainy and muddy days which are so hard on our better bridles and upon the temper of the unfortunate soul who must do his own leather." <- hah!
            ----------------------------------------
            PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
            http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
            ----------------------------------------

            Comment


            • #7
              Are sewn in bridles an American invention?

              I have never noticed them in the UK or Australia. Which might mean I am not very observant, they used to exist but died out, or that they were only ever American.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tangledweb View Post
                Are sewn in bridles an American invention?

                I have never noticed them in the UK or Australia. Which might mean I am not very observant, they used to exist but died out, or that they were only ever American.
                Nope. They were the only way bridles most everyone, but especially for the "hunting set", were made until the later 2/3 of the 20th century when the hooks and buckles came in. Remember, each riding horse had "their" bridle, so there was no need to switch out bits for different horses.
                Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles

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                • #9
                  The history cannot be that simple. 19th century tack is not something I claim to be an expert on but cavalry of that period certainly had buckles. Ornate bridles are often depicted in detail in contemporary art.

                  US civil war era equipment patterns are very well known, and all original or reproduction items I have seen have buckles.

                  Clearly they have gone in and out of fashion over time. Have you actually seen an English bridle with sewn bits in a 19th century catalogue or museum exhibit?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tangledweb View Post
                    Clearly they have gone in and out of fashion over time. Have you actually seen an English bridle with sewn bits in a 19th century catalogue or museum exhibit?
                    Yes.
                    Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've seen them.


                      But I think we may be talking apples and oranges. Really ornate tack would not have been practical for the cavalry - and cavalry tack would, by its very nature, have had to have been easily disassembled, cleaned, replaced, etc. Everything for military use would have to have been designed that way.

                      The sewn bridle would have been more of an everyday thing. Every horse had its own bridle for use while being ridden. There just wasn't the need for bit changes - though a bit could be changed if necessary.

                      I'm certainly no expert either. Just throwing out some possibilities.
                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                      -Rudyard Kipling

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tangledweb View Post
                        Clearly they have gone in and out of fashion over time. Have you actually seen an English bridle with sewn bits in a 19th century catalogue or museum exhibit?
                        I can't say I've seen one in a museum (have to check my 'Man and the Horse' catalog) but I recently gave my last sewn in bridle away to the barn owner- it was given to me in the late 70s but wasn't more than 10 years old at the time. It had a narrow eggbutt snaffle in it that I hadn't been able to use on any of my horses for years, and the BO had a use for that bit.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tangledweb View Post
                          Clearly they have gone in and out of fashion over time. Have you actually seen an English bridle with sewn bits in a 19th century catalogue or museum exhibit?
                          Maybe that is not clear. By "English bridle" I mean a bridle made England, not any bridle that is not Western in style.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SidesaddleRider View Post
                            Nope. They were the only way bridles most everyone, but especially for the "hunting set", were made until the later 2/3 of the 20th century when the hooks and buckles came in. Remember, each riding horse had "their" bridle, so there was no need to switch out bits for different horses.
                            Per the quote above from 1954: "A few have reins which buckle in, as do the bits. ... They are usually found only in cheaper grades or reclaimed military equipment. The majority of bridles on the market are finished with the so called "hook-in stud" for both reins and bits."

                            We had a couple of sewn in bridles in use for showing when I was a kid: 1981 (I was 9 and learning to ride) onwards. They were quite uncommon.
                            ----------------------------------------
                            PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
                            http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
                            ----------------------------------------

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Well, what do you think they would have been doing in 1192?

                              Probably not little tiny buckles...
                              Approved helmet: Every time; every ride.
                              "When a sport gets to be predictable it ceases to be fun." - RAR's wise brother

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by J Swan View Post
                                Is this more what you are looking for?
                                That bridle still has buckles on the cheekpieces... would a die-hard sewn bridle not even have had those?

                                What about the throatlatch? Would that be laced or tied in some way? Or would those bridles not have a throatlatch?

                                I guess I'm confused about just what was "sewn" about a sewn bridle. Was it only the attachment to the bit?
                                Approved helmet: Every time; every ride.
                                "When a sport gets to be predictable it ceases to be fun." - RAR's wise brother

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Risk-Averse Rider View Post
                                  I guess I'm confused about just what was "sewn" about a sewn bridle. Was it only the attachment to the bit?
                                  Yes, pretty much, a sewn in bit is what the turnout inspectors would be looking for these days. With double reins on a full bridle, the curb rein in my experience is also sewn together rather than using a buckle. But it makes sense to me that pre-buckle, the snaffle rein would also have been sewn.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Risk-Averse Rider View Post
                                    I guess I'm confused about just what was "sewn" about a sewn bridle. Was it only the attachment to the bit?
                                    On a sewn-in bridle, all parts that attach to the bit are sewn-in, as they have the most stress put on them, ergo, it would be the cheek pieces and reins. Obviously a double bridle would have 8 "parts" sewn-in: 2 sets of cheek pieces and 4 reins. There are still buckles for adjustable parts, such as throatlatch and noseband.
                                    Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Risk-Averse Rider View Post
                                      Well, what do you think they would have been doing in 1192?

                                      Probably not little tiny buckles...
                                      Why not?

                                      Buckles are certainly not a 20th century invention. Roman clothing and armour used them well before 1192. 12th century Viking graves contain them. There is no reason they could not have been used on horse tack in that period.

                                      But I am not sure what the value is in guessing, or what relevance 12th century tack has to 18th and 19th century hunting tack fashions. I was kind of hoping that somebody had a 19th century Swaine Adeney catalogue to refer to.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Risk-Averse Rider View Post
                                        Well, what do you think they would have been doing in 1192?

                                        Probably not little tiny buckles...
                                        Hmm, Google is failing me. 126 years too early and not nearly enough detail

                                        Comment

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