• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Standing or Running Martingale?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Standing or Running Martingale?

    Possibly a YMMV, depends on the horse kind of question, but looking at hunting tack and photos the running martingale seems to be the default type--is there a preference/reason to favor one over the other, or is it strictly a matter of what the horse in question needs? I'm assuming the reason hunting tack seems to be a combination breastplate/martingale is just a safety precaution, but if you add a martingale attachment does it matter which one?
    Author Page
    Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
    Steampunk Sweethearts

  • #2
    I have no basis for this other than my gut instinct, but I've never felt comfortable jumping a horse in a standing martingale over anything but little hunter jumps in a ring. I'd never use it out XC or hunting. I want the extra leeway and control that a running martingale gives to me the rider if I need to slip the reins to give the horse more of his head. Again, nothing more than my own instinct. Perhaps someone else can weigh in with a more logical explanation.
    ~Living the life I imagined~

    Comment


    • #3
      I only know what I read - no practical experience hunting as yet - but I thought the reverse: that standing martingales were traditionally used, not running martingales.

      Not arguing with you, OP, just posting on your thread in hopes of learning something from your responses.
      I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh, standing versus running for hunting is a lively topic of discussion! Personally I prefer no martingale, if I must use one I prefer standing, and have never had a problem jumping (up to 4 feet) or swimming a horse therein. And indeed when I started hunting standing was the standard.

        Both standing and running have pros and cons and safety issues. As already noted, YMMV and I think it really boils down to the rider's personal preference, which is no doubt based on the rider's comfort with the level of control.

        The cardinal rule of foxhunting, 'tradition' be damned, is, you use on your horse that which you need to use in order to maintain control at all times. Nothing more, nothing less.

        Whatever tack you use should be scrupulously clean and well maintained for horse and rider safety and wellbeing.
        Last edited by Beverley; Dec. 9, 2009, 11:28 AM. Reason: Add a thought

        Comment


        • #5
          Like the second poster, I instinctively would want the horse to have as much room to stretch/twist/wrangle his way over a fence from a bad spot, or to tiwst and land in an unexpected spot/change direction/change our mind over a jump - I wouldn't want a standing martingale restricting him. My use for a standing has always been a head flipper - and if a horse is flipping his head up to evade the bit he doesn't really belong on the field. (probably has some bitting or mouth problems which need to be solved anyway, but I digress...) I haven't hunted in years, and I was using a running martingale anyway on my mare at the time I did hunt, probabaly because she came from the track, I can't remember the reason why we used that, but she was showing hunter pace, hunting and (remember those) outside course type hunter events which went through fields, woods and over streams and ditches - I look forward to someone making a declarative comment on this and the choices we make for martingales and what we should be considering.

          edited: Also, am I making this up? Was there some kind of concern about a horse hanging himself up with his legs entangled in a standing martingale or am I really whacko and that wouldn't happen. I wouldn't say it could never happen, and I am not sure a running martingale would be any less horrifying to tangle your legs up with, but would that be any less possible than tangling up in the reins, anyway, and maybe I'm going overboard with that one...
          Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            We always jumped our last horse in a standing martingale (OTTBs often like to go with their noses in the air) but the only way I could see a horse getting tangled in a standing martingale is if it was improperly fitted or he was double-jointed. I'm thinking of how we adjusted Benny's, but I can't imagine how he'd be able to get a leg up that high without it already having something REALLY wrong anatomically.....if it were the wrong size and/or adjusted too long if they went down completely I guess they could get a leg caught.

            I guess I ask mostly because I have no idea what a running martingale actually does! The only time I ever used one was on the Arabs I rode as a little kid, and I never knew why they were used, they just said put it on, so I did. The standing one, again, we always used for jumping to keep him from flipping his head (and having been slammed in the face by an Arab mare who was a head-tosser I appreciate this use.) That horse was NOT a field hunter, though, and it would have taken more than a martingale to get him out there--he'd have had had to be lunged to death and take a very heavy bit to keep him from charging in front of the field. (He never really got the memo about not racing any more.)
            Author Page
            Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
            Steampunk Sweethearts

            Comment


            • #7
              I use running martingales but our master always uses standing ;-) I was always told that standings shouldn't be used jumping, and if they are fitted too short they do seem to restrict the head and neck, but we rarely jump out hunting so for horses who stick their noses in the air, standing martingales are useful.

              FWIW, if a horse runs with its head up, it may well be less happy with rein pressure than noseband pressure, which would make a standing martingale a good option.
              www.rockleyfarm.blogspot.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re function of a running martingale--I use one on my mare sometimes because she sometimes evades the bit by getting above it. She doesn't fling her head or pose a danger to my nose, but she will brace her neck and stick her nose up and out. Plus, she will go up sometimes, so the running lets me control how much "give" she gets.
                Custom and semi-custom washable wool felt saddle pads!
                http://www.etsy.com/shop/PellMellFeltPads

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Grasshopper View Post
                  Re function of a running martingale--I use one on my mare sometimes because she sometimes evades the bit by getting above it. She doesn't fling her head or pose a danger to my nose, but she will brace her neck and stick her nose up and out. Plus, she will go up sometimes, so the running lets me control how much "give" she gets.
                  Same reasoning here. I have a few really sensitive types that might pop up here and there and I need to let go of the pressure and I find that a correctly fitted standing just isn't as forgiving in those types of situations. I also prefer a running for it's ability to allow horses full use of their head and neck in all situations. There is a reason you don't see a lot of standing martigales in eventing and high level jumpers.
                  http://www.benchmarksporthorses.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I know hunters have traditionally used standing martingales and most of them jump big obstacles, but I am also baffled as to why not use a running martingale instead, for safety purposes. A standing martingale is not legal in eventing if I remember correctly, and I've never seen an eventer in one. I know my horse needs a running martingale for jumping while eventing and I also put it on him the only time we went hunting and in a competitive trail ride. It gave me the extra control so he couldn't evade the bit by sticking nose up in the air. He can get excited when galloping with a group but it seems that his regular french link plus running martingale are enough to keep him at the pace I want.
                    ___________________________________________
                    "Another member of the Barefoot Eventers Clique"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Standing martingales are traditionally worn fox-hunting. The theory behind it is (supposedly) that a tired horse can lean into one and get support. now I have never seen that but that's what the old Masters have told me over the years.
                      Shop online at
                      www.KoperEquine.com
                      http://sweetolivefarm.com/services.php

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vbunny View Post
                        Standing martingales are traditionally worn fox-hunting. The theory behind it is (supposedly) that a tired horse can lean into one and get support. now I have never seen that but that's what the old Masters have told me over the years.

                        If a horse was so knackered that it couldn't carry its head without a strap holding the head on to the chest (isn't that what the neck is for?), then surely the rider should dismount and let the horse rest its too-heavy head on its rider's broad shoulders.

                        What happens to the feet when they get tired? No straps there to tie them on to the body. Maybe that's what legs are for.

                        Hat. Coat. Door.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          VBunny- I have yet to hear that one from a Master (but they all have different theories, and I've know a fair number of Masters who were decidedly um, average horsemen).

                          As for the eventing rule- I dunno why they imposed it, offhand. But I'm looking at a picture of a horse jumping a 3'6" stone wall in a standing martingale, properly adjusted, and there is absolutely no question of freedom of movement for twisting, turning, pecking on landing, whatever. Don't think I have an electronic copy of this one but maybe for fun I'll see what I have at home later. When I hunted my tb in a standing- it was just the thing to keep the head not too high when he got into Secretariat mode at the walk or trot. But it didn't hinder him in any way when it counted, whether negotiating trappy terrain at high speed or jumping. I do think I recall correctly that he raced in a running martingale though.

                          I think for me, part of the preference is just plain what I'm used to. The few times I've ridden a horse w/ a running martingale, I just didn't like the feel.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So... horse jumping big fence in Lucerne in a running martingale...

                            http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/d...RobRidland.jpg

                            Horse jumping three foot fence in a standing martingale...

                            http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...mageID=1828302

                            Typical hunting turnout, hunting breastplate w/standing martingale attachment...

                            http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...mageID=1828264

                            And a 'naked horse, no martingale...

                            http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...mageID=1797536

                            Just random examples...and I can't say I could look at them and say one is better than the other! But I think it shows that a standing martingale properly adjusted doesn't restrict a horse's bascule or impair balance in any way.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Beverley View Post
                              So... horse jumping big fence in Lucerne in a running martingale...

                              http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/d...RobRidland.jpg

                              Horse jumping three foot fence in a standing martingale...

                              http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...mageID=1828302

                              Typical hunting turnout, hunting breastplate w/standing martingale attachment...

                              http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...mageID=1828264

                              And a 'naked horse, no martingale...

                              http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...mageID=1797536

                              Just random examples...and I can't say I could look at them and say one is better than the other! But I think it shows that a standing martingale properly adjusted doesn't restrict a horse's bascule or impair balance in any way.
                              I never ever get on a horse without a standing martingale.

                              I am not the rider I once was. I am now 81, but I have a photo of me jumping a horse about 64 years ago over a 4' triple bar 12' spread in a standing martingale.

                              Obviously it did not bother him.

                              The way you adjust one is you with your left hand hold his head up in the normal position it should be in. You use your right hand to chuck him under the throat right at the throat latch with the martingale strap over your hand. The martingale should just touch his throat at the junction of his jaws (really between his jaw bones). No shorter and no longer.

                              With that adjustment he will not hit you in the nose if he decides to play a little and he can not stretch his head out ahead as when landing enough to be restricted.

                              Also if he stumbles and stretches his head down and forward he will not be restricted.

                              As his head is lowered, the martingale is effectively lengthened because it becomes a straight line between his girth and nose band. When he raises his head, as when shying, throwing his head or otherwise playing, the martingale is shorter because it has to wrap around his chest.

                              The old rule, a straight line is the shortest distance.

                              A running martingale to me is like riding with mittens.

                              There is one serious thought to the difference. If you have to jump off and in a hurry lead your horse, like to help with a hound or to catch a horse or help someone mount that has fallen, the running martingale will not allow you to quickly throw the reins over the horses head. You must unbuckle.

                              The ideal standing martingale will have a snap. Most of those that fasten to a breat plate do so with a snap.

                              This is invaluable if you ever have to cross water or a bog that you believe to be a trap. Unsnap and the horse's head is totally free.

                              I have never seen it, but I have heard of horses getting afoot in their martingale and drowning. Whether this is true or an old wives tale, I know not. But crossing that kind of stuff is where you might want to unsnap it.

                              However, no matter what anyone tells you, a standing martingale properly adjusted will do what it is intended to do and will not interfere with a horse's jump.

                              And if you are riding a horse that shies violently, head up, it will save your teeth and nose.

                              CSSJr

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by cssutton View Post
                                I never ever get on a horse without a standing martingale.
                                This just made me chuckle a little because a girl once told my friend this when she was trying my friend's horse as a lease prospect. Her reasoning was safety. She got on and the mare promptly reared up. So much for being more safe with a standing martingale.

                                I do not know if it was adjusted properly - I got there just after the incident and questioned the standing martingale and how everything went, after the lady left.

                                I tend to think a running is better and nothing at all is the best, but I have very little experience with using any martingales of any sort.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  ...If I'm physically and mentally capable of riding at 81, I will probably use whatever tack I damn well please. Because I'll just be happy I'm still riding.
                                  Author Page
                                  Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                                  Steampunk Sweethearts

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I am still riding.

                                    My good horse died but I am in the process of buying another.

                                    I just don't jump triple bars now days.

                                    I will jump in the field if I am on the right horse and the hounds are running.

                                    CSSJR

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Just out of curiosity, I pulled out a book called "A Field of Horses, the world of Marshall P. Hawkins." The book was published in 1988, but the photos in it go back quite a few years earlier. It features foxhunting, racing (over brush), and show jumping photos, all of them action shots taken in the field.

                                      It seems to be pretty evenly divided, on the Foxhunting pages, between running, standing and no martingales. Dick Bywaters is shown on a stunning gray in a running martingale; Carolyn Kennedy Schlossberg riding with the Orange County Hunt with a correctly fitted standing martingale. Her mother clears a stone wall with the Piedmont Hunt without martingale. Earlier photos with the Piedmont (ca 1950) show mostly standing martingales. In a 1960 photo the indomitable Harriet Harper clears a stone coop sidesaddle without a martingale.

                                      In the steeplechase section there are no martingales.

                                      On the showjumping pages there are very, very few martingales - I counted two standing, and 5 running.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        When cssutton speaks, people listen.
                                        Indeed, a properly adjusted standing martingale does not inhibit a horse's way of going. If the horse behaves, in fact, it is hardly put into use at all. The danger lies in the improperly adjusted standing martingale. This has long been used by folks who are over-mounted, undertrained or otherwise afraid of their horse to tie the horse's head down so that the poor thing can hardly see where he going - which makes him very careful and "safe." Some schools of thought see the standing martingale as a schooling aid, to be discarded when the lesson is learned. These last couple of points are why the standing martingale is looked down upon by some.
                                        The running martingale is designed to insure a relatively consistent line of approach from the reins to the bit. That is, if the rider's hands tend to go up a bit over a fence, the running martingale will keep the horse from getting too violently slammed in the mouth from above - he may still get a jolt, but from an angle that is less punishing. Likewise, if the rider's tend not to stay together, an Irish martingale was often employed. The running martingale will also keep the reins from flopping about if the rider has trouble keeping adequate contact.
                                        The running martingale was at one time seen cheifly on horses "for hire" or on school horses - those who knew their business, but whose riders might lack a little tact. It is also used by those of us (ahem) who tend, after a few hours, to ride on the buckle, have a nip from the flask and enjoy the view to insure that the horse still thinks we are paying attention.
                                        Wadsworth or one of the other venerable old-timers states that the running martingale is dangerous in the field as branches and whatnot can grab the "arms" of the martingale and misdirect the horse - this has not been my experience.
                                        cssutton above makes excellent points, by the way, regarding unhooking running martingales when swimming and/or dismounting.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X