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Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

In our continuing effort to provide an avenue for individuals to voice their opinions and experiences, we have recently reviewed and updated our forum policies. Generally, we have allowed users to share their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, trainers, etc. within the industry, and that is not changing.

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Forum rules and no-advertising policy

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(Revised 5/9/18)
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New amateur jumper division!

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  • New amateur jumper division!

    I was reading the chronicle article about new USEF changes and saw that there will be a new amateur jumper division. This is pretty exciting for those of us who (someday hopefully) will compete at 1.20 and higher with a lease horse.

    So, how long will it take for the smaller A shows to start offering it do you think?

    Link to the article

  • #2
    I would expect that the smaller A shows that offered a low A/O division in the past would start offering a 1.20 amateur jumper division right away. But the ones that didn't have anything over 1.10/1.15 wouldn't offer the new amateur jumper division until/unless it looked like there was a lot of demand for it, meaning lots of entries in that division at the bigger A shows.


    • #3
      I'm so excited about this new division! The prize lists for a lot of the shows around my area don't feature them yet, but I'm hoping that they'll update throughout the year, or at the very least start including them in 2019.


      • #4
        Other good changes in the new rules. No microchip, no points for one and necropsy any horse who dies at a show. The pace may be glacial but change in response to member input is happening.
        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


        • #5
          My first thought is I wouldn't be too happy if I was in the A/O Jumpers. Reading the rule there are times the divisions could and will be combined. You think there are shamatuers now?!?...


          • #6
            Nobody is ever going to be completely happy with everything. There was a big gap between Ch/Ad and Jr/AO in both size and technical questions, the Hunters dealt with it by adding a 3’3” division But IIRC, it was restricted to owners? Perhaps Jumpers can also tweak that if a rule change goes on the table.

            Cheaters gonna cheat anyway, most will enjoy having that new division. Might even entice more into the Jr/AO with the stepping stone heightwise to ease the way.
            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Blinky View Post
              My first thought is I wouldn't be too happy if I was in the A/O Jumpers. Reading the rule there are times the divisions could and will be combined. You think there are shamatuers now?!?...
              How about the amateurs who don't have six figures to spend on an A/O Jumper but who may be able to scrounge up a catch ride or afford a lease? Don't they matter? For the past however-long, they've had no amateur division to show in whatsoever.

              There's something wrong with a system that establishes division rules just to keep people from cheating - rules that also keep a large number of honest, hardworking amateur riders without a division to compete in.

              Let's get better at policing shamateurs and create a culture where cheating isn't an okay thing to do rather than punishing the under-funded amateur because of the small percentage of cheaters.
              It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)


              • Original Poster

                Originally posted by Mac123 View Post

                Let's get better at policing shamateurs and create a culture where cheating isn't an okay thing to do rather than punishing the under-funded amateur because of the small percentage of cheaters.


                • #9
                  Agree with Mac123 on this. Most shows can’t fill the 3’6” or meter equivalent anything when restricted to Owners as more and more are getting completely priced out of ownership as leasing has exploded in popularity which has driven purchase prices even higher.

                  Im not talking about unrealistic show and horse cost expectations, I’m talking about the reality of nothing over 3’ being available for many while owner restricted 3’6” classes don’t fill without combining or using non competitive stuffers who go in and jump a few fences to fill it. Fear of getting the AO class combined with another where some actually lease but don’t own is...well....dare I say a bit elitist? Especially when there aren’t enough to fill the class. If they were always packed with entries we might be having a different conversation..,and even here, the AO will continue, just might be combined with non owners if it does not fill.

                  Times have changed. We either deal with that or continue to shrink as new entrants pick other disciplines for more opportunity.

                  Oh, and this isn’t a dummy down, it’s a way to get more Ammy riders into higher, more technical.classes with their peer group, Ammies.
                  Last edited by findeight; Dec. 7, 2017, 09:25 AM.
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                  • #10
                    I definitely think there is a place for the A/O jumper divisions, and in my area these don't usually have a tough time filling. I'm just glad this is being implemented as an addition to that for a slightly different market. In my mind, creating an alternate pathway for those who can afford to lease, but not buy an A/O mount is creating greater access to the upper levels. There's been a lot of talk in recent years about creating a pipeline of talent to the top levels so that the US has the best riders possible representing us, and I absolutely think this is a step in opening up that pipeline to more people who have the talent and drive, but maybe not the funding.
                    Will there be people who abuse the system and act as shamateurs? Yeah. There always have been people who like to cheat the system. But I'd definitely agree with Mac123 that creating divisions that are focused around excluding the bad eggs at the cost of a lot of good eggs (for lack of a better metaphor) means losing out on a lot of entries- which hurts the amateurs wanting to compete, the shows who could be collecting entry fees, etc.
                    Now, I think the amateur rule itself could use some clarification and tweaking, but that's a whooooole other discussion