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#metoo - H/J World

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  • #41

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    • #42
      Originally posted by MistyPony View Post
      I thought this was interesting when it came through my inbox (see linked article). Specifically this part, "the bill extends the mandatory duty to report to US Equestrian members and participants, who must report suspected sexual abuse to authorities within 24 hours. An individual who does not report the suspected sexual abuse is subject to criminal penalties" (emphasis added).

      We are now all mandatory reporters of suspected sexual abuse, but I'm not sure how many people noticed or understood the implications of this change.
      Teachers also are mandated reporters. It doesn't mean you have to be sure any abuse took place. It just means you tell law enforcement and let them investigate.

      Nurses and doctors also must inform LE if they suspect abuse.

      I rode for a while at a riding club where everything was named after the (now dead) trainer who abused several teenage girls there. He lived on the premises, so it was very convenient. It's been years, but come on, why honor the guy who almost destroyed your club just because he's famous?

      A helmet saved my life.

      2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

      Comment


      • #43
        according to the link posted above:

        "The bill imposes a duty on amateur sports organizations, including US Equestrian and its members, to report suspected sex-abuse to local or federal law enforcement or to a child-welfare agency designated by the Justice Department, within 24 hours. Failure to report is subject to criminal penalties."

        "Importantly, under the U.S. Center for SafeSport's Code and US Equestrian's Safe Sport Policy, members of and participants in US Equestrian-licensed competitions and sponsored programs are required to report any suspected sexual misconduct to the U.S. Center for SafeSport, regardless of when and where the misconduct occurred."

        It sounds like there are two reporting requirements, one with law enforcement, and one to the US Center for Safe Sport. Wherever that is!
        A helmet saved my life.

        2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

        Comment


        • #44
          I considered making an alter for this, which is just sad since it has been almost 30 years. I am still embarrassed by it all these years later.

          Local horse show series announcer was in his mid-twenties, 25 exactly if I remember correctly, I was 12. We talked on the phone for hours at a time and I was so flattered that this guy wanted to talk to me. In school, I was a big geek, but this guy liked me! One day he asked me to ride his bike down the road to meet him. I wasn't supposed to go as far as he was asking, but I mounted my pink and purple huffy and set off down the driveway anyway.

          He met me in a beat up ford dually. A dream machine to a horse girl. He parked in a quiet neighborhood and soon there was kissing, then there was more, then my pants were unbuttoned, then the cops showed up.

          He knew the cop, lucky for him, but not so lucky for me. The cop told him to get out of there while he handcuffed me and put me into the back of the cop car. His partner, a female cop, asked if I was okay and then put my bike into the trunk of the cop car and took me to the police station where I was then handcuffed to a bench while they called my mother.

          My mother came and got me. Her and my father had just gotten divorced and she was so worried about what he would think and she grounded me for a month. I went to my grandparents the next week and she asked where had I been and I said "oh you know, around" she said "so I have heard"

          The only person upset by this was my father. He went after the horseshow announcer at the next show, but someone pulled a truck in front of him and the announcer was able to get on the golf cart. Everyone else deemed my 12-year-old self to be at fault.

          I must have led him on, I should know better, I was going to get a reputation for acting like that...

          Afterward, my father banned me from showing at those shows, and my riding career took a serious downturn.

          The boob and butt grabs I have received from judges, clinicians, and trainers since then seemed mild in comparison.

          Yes, it happens.

          www.michelesfindinghappiness.com

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by MMacallister View Post
            I considered making an alter for this, which is just sad since it has been almost 30 years. I am still embarrassed by it all these years later.

            Local horse show series announcer was in his mid-twenties, 25 exactly if I remember correctly, I was 12. We talked on the phone for hours at a time and I was so flattered that this guy wanted to talk to me. In school, I was a big geek, but this guy liked me! One day he asked me to ride his bike down the road to meet him. I wasn't supposed to go as far as he was asking, but I mounted my pink and purple huffy and set off down the driveway anyway.

            He met me in a beat up ford dually. A dream machine to a horse girl. He parked in a quiet neighborhood and soon there was kissing, then there was more, then my pants were unbuttoned, then the cops showed up.

            He knew the cop, lucky for him, but not so lucky for me. The cop told him to get out of there while he handcuffed me and put me into the back of the cop car. His partner, a female cop, asked if I was okay and then put my bike into the trunk of the cop car and took me to the police station where I was then handcuffed to a bench while they called my mother.

            My mother came and got me. Her and my father had just gotten divorced and she was so worried about what he would think and she grounded me for a month. I went to my grandparents the next week and she asked where had I been and I said "oh you know, around" she said "so I have heard"

            The only person upset by this was my father. He went after the horseshow announcer at the next show, but someone pulled a truck in front of him and the announcer was able to get on the golf cart. Everyone else deemed my 12-year-old self to be at fault.

            I must have led him on, I should know better, I was going to get a reputation for acting like that...

            Afterward, my father banned me from showing at those shows, and my riding career took a serious downturn.

            The boob and butt grabs I have received from judges, clinicians, and trainers since then seemed mild in comparison.

            Yes, it happens.

            MMacallister, I am so sorry. That response by everyone in authority is horrifying.
            www.laurienberenson.com

            Comment


            • #46
              I am so sorry to hear that. That is truly awful. I wonder if I know this announcer? We had an issue with a pretty crusty middle-aged announcer contacting my daughter on Facebook late at night to chat. She was 18 but still the absolute raw nerve of that guy. And on top of it, I'm paying the horse show money and effectively paying his salary? She knew enough by 18 to be creeped out and she told me. But you cannot be too careful. Many young girls are flattered as you say by the attention of a man and a horseman at that. Ugh.

              Comment


              • #47
                Laurie B Yes, it is. What scares me today is how normal it was then, and how normal it still seems today. I remember hearing a story about the announcer for WEF being charged with the statutory rape of a 14-year-old girl, and the response was largely the same. He still had a job, she probably wanted it.

                Soaponarope You can PM me and I will tell you his name, This was in New Jersey in the 80's.
                www.michelesfindinghappiness.com

                Comment


                • #48
                  Ok so here's the interesting question. Is this new desire for clean sport willing to look into past incidents? And if so what parameters are they willing to cover.

                  Just curious.

                  Emily
                  "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                    Ok so here's the interesting question. Is this new desire for clean sport willing to look into past incidents? And if so what parameters are they willing to cover.

                    Just curious.

                    Emily
                    I can't answer for sure but I'd imagine if there was evidence they would look into it. You might want to email USEF with your question.
                    Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
                    My equine soulmate
                    Mischief Managed (Tully)- JC Priceless Jewel 2002 TB Gelding

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by dani0303 View Post

                      I can't answer for sure but I'd imagine if there was evidence they would look into it. You might want to email USEF with your question.
                      This is more related to the #metoo thread on eventing right now.

                      Emily
                      "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by findeight View Post
                        The other thing is...am I the only one who was around leading BNs but not messed with who mentioned that fact to others and got the retort I wasn't pretty enough or rich enough for him to mess with? How sick is that for any woman in any sport or profession?
                        I think right here is part of the problem: that culture of "competition" between women where someone would claim that one is not "pretty" enough to be messed with, or in some dark twisted way "not worthy enough" to be assaulted. It's the "classic" defense of the rapist: "I couldn't have done that your Honor, I am not even attracted to her, I mean look at her." Lust is only part of the reason for harassment or assault, it is much more about someone in a position of power asserting his/her dominance over a victim. When a powerful man/woman objectifies, grabs or pins their WS against the wall (as in the Eventing thread), he/she is showing he/she is in charge.

                        - the correlative of that culture being "victim's pride" when someone is paying you attention ("I know this isn't quite right, but surely this means that I am prettier/better/etc than the other girls in the barn?").

                        And research has shown that in cases of assault and harassment, physical attractiveness of the victim has little to do with it: it's about power and control plain and simple.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Setting aside the underage cases which are on a different level, a lot of this is clear workplace harassment and no different than secretaries and bosses (Mad Men anyone?) or doctors and nurses dir cots actresses etc etc. what is different is the horse world seems to be lagging behind the more corporate environments in making the more blantant examples of this type of harassment unacceptable. It's reflective of the overall lack of professionalism in the industry It's like we're stuck in the 70's. we need an HR department.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            I would say it is different though. It isn't always a crusty old guy making unwanted advances. Sometimes it's an attractive trainer with charisma and power and juniors are susceptible to their charms. So while there is harassment, there are also unsupervised kids spending 14 hours a day with an adult they worship and they may have no clue that trainer doesn't have their best interest at heart. Which is why I never let my kid leave home and become a working student as a junior. And I kept tabs on her. This after I recall a girl telling me in college that she lost her virginity to "her groom." Not that we ever had a groom, and nothing against grooms, but, no thank you.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              NCRider

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by ohnoO View Post
                                I think it's true, though. Most horsemen learned what they know about how to act and run their business just from a single horseman who mentored them, and let's face it, in some generations past a trainer who didn't molest or cheat clients/students is probably more surprising than one who did. I have been thinking for several years that USEF can do a great service to our industry by simply providing some of this training that is now routine in other professions - sexual harassment, and also business ethics. I worry that many good people put out their shingle and behave unethically not because they are intentionally bad people, but because no one ever taught them there is a right (or different) way.

                                Also please note everyone that this new requirement from SafeSport for mandatory reporting isn't originating from USEF, but from Congress. IE, federal law rather than a USEF rule change.
                                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  It's hard to run to tne HR department when you are working off the books...that's part of what allows this to persist.
                                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by MMacallister View Post
                                    I considered making an alter for this, which is just sad since it has been almost 30 years. I am still embarrassed by it all these years later.

                                    Local horse show series announcer was in his mid-twenties, 25 exactly if I remember correctly, I was 12. We talked on the phone for hours at a time and I was so flattered that this guy wanted to talk to me. In school, I was a big geek, but this guy liked me! One day he asked me to ride his bike down the road to meet him. I wasn't supposed to go as far as he was asking, but I mounted my pink and purple huffy and set off down the driveway anyway.

                                    He met me in a beat up ford dually. A dream machine to a horse girl. He parked in a quiet neighborhood and soon there was kissing, then there was more, then my pants were unbuttoned, then the cops showed up.

                                    He knew the cop, lucky for him, but not so lucky for me. The cop told him to get out of there while he handcuffed me and put me into the back of the cop car. His partner, a female cop, asked if I was okay and then put my bike into the trunk of the cop car and took me to the police station where I was then handcuffed to a bench while they called my mother.

                                    My mother came and got me. Her and my father had just gotten divorced and she was so worried about what he would think and she grounded me for a month. I went to my grandparents the next week and she asked where had I been and I said "oh you know, around" she said "so I have heard"

                                    The only person upset by this was my father. He went after the horseshow announcer at the next show, but someone pulled a truck in front of him and the announcer was able to get on the golf cart. Everyone else deemed my 12-year-old self to be at fault.

                                    I must have led him on, I should know better, I was going to get a reputation for acting like that...

                                    Afterward, my father banned me from showing at those shows, and my riding career took a serious downturn.

                                    The boob and butt grabs I have received from judges, clinicians, and trainers since then seemed mild in comparison.

                                    Yes, it happens.
                                    This is truly horrifying- It is terrifying that the those sworn to protect and serve behaved like that - you were handcuffed and taken into the police station- Wow I am so sorry
                                    "All life is precious"
                                    Sophie Scholl

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Not physical, but while I was a WS in high school, a male client 50+ years older than me found me in our horse trailer dressing room while I was alone (we were at a show), came in, and started hitting on me (after not speaking to me the other times we met when we were in the company of others). I got out of there. No reason he needed to be there. Fortunately it was our last day with him.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                                        Ok so here's the interesting question. Is this new desire for clean sport willing to look into past incidents? And if so what parameters are they willing to cover.

                                        Just curious.

                                        Emily
                                        Take a look at the Safesport and USEF suspension/banned lists. Some very old history is coming out and not all are deceased. Clearly, 30+ years ago is fair game. Memories were dead and buried and now it all comes back.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          To be fair, the Jimmy Williams situation wasn't really dead and buried because his name was on national federation awards and on rings where national federation shows were held.

                                          I don't know that they'll be posthumously banning every rando former member from 30 years ago.
                                          Let me apologize in advance.

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