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AO jumper question....

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  • AO jumper question....

    I was wondering if you are able to show in the AO jumpers, on a horse you own, and show in a schooling class or the open jumpers (ex: the 1.30s) on a horse you do not own (and of course not being paid or anything of that sort!)?

    What about the AO jumpers (on a horse you own) and an adult am hunter (that you do not own)
    "If you are nervous you arent focused-if you are focused, there is no room for nerves!"


  • #2
    1) No, not at the same show.
    2) No, not at the same show. And in my zone (10), you couldn't even compete in the A/A's and A/O's even if you owned both horses (unless it was A/A jumpers and A/O hunters).

    Comment


    • #3
      See USEF General rules 1307 and Jumper rule 117.

      Comment


      • #4
        No to both of those. The A/O jumper rules were changed to match the A/O hunter rules. If you show in the A/O hunters or jumpers you may not show a horse you/ your family do not own in any other class at the same horse show, except for hack classes.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by CBoylen View Post
          No to both of those. The A/O jumper rules were changed to match the A/O hunter rules. If you show in the A/O hunters or jumpers you may not show a horse you/ your family do not own in any other class at the same horse show, except for hack classes.
          Thanks for your quick responses everyone! Does anyone know the reasoning behind this? I only own one show horse, and would love to have more ring time, but cant do that. I guess I am just wondering why the rules are written this way? Ammys have to make money in other ways (i work in an office and do NOT make enough to own more than one horse) so it seems like there should be more ways for an ammy rider to show. So if I want to stay at 3'6 jumpers forever, I can show other horses (am I right?) which makes no sense. Why can I do that at 3'6" but not at 4'?
          "If you are nervous you arent focused-if you are focused, there is no room for nerves!"

          Comment


          • #6
            USEF told another ammy at my farm today that if she officially leased (lease registered with USEF) that she could show the horse she owns in the High AO jumpers and the leased horse in another division. Somehow this doesn't sound right to me because you are competing for another owner this way.... Might
            want to call USEF to ask

            This rule was created to prevent cheating... lots of non-ammys were showing as ammys and competing multiple horses they didn't own. For example showing their own horse in the high AO's and then an outside owned horse in the Grand Prixs, Opens etc.

            Comment


            • #7
              As far as I understand, nothing prevents you from showing multiple horses at 4' or 4'6" - you just can't show any of them in the A/O division. You could show your horse plus a horse you don't own in the level classes.

              Comment


              • #8
                Here's the rule straight from the 201o rulebook. It is new for this year

                JP117 Sections/Classes Restricted to Junior, Amateur/Owner, or Young Riders.
                1. Amateur Owner Jumper: A horse that is ridden by an Amateur Owner or an amateur
                member of the owner’s family. In either case, classes are restricted to riders who are no
                longer eligible to compete as junior exhibitors. Leased horses are not eligible, and multiple
                ownership is not permitted unless all owners are members of the same family.
                a. An amateur who competes for a person outside of his/her family may not compete in
                a class restricted to Amateur Owners at the same competition. Exception: equitation
                and under saddle per HU107.2. BOD 1/18/09 Effective 12/1/09 EC 4/20/09 Effective 12/1/09
                EC 8/17/09 Effective 12/1/09
                R

                Comment


                • #9
                  It should add:
                  exception: you can do anything you want as long as you are influential enough that no one will protest you because the federation will not enforce the rules anyway, that is the job of the membership, who is scared and intimidated.
                  The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bhrunner06 View Post
                    Thanks for your quick responses everyone! Does anyone know the reasoning behind this? I only own one show horse, and would love to have more ring time, but cant do that. I guess I am just wondering why the rules are written this way? Ammys have to make money in other ways (i work in an office and do NOT make enough to own more than one horse) so it seems like there should be more ways for an ammy rider to show. So if I want to stay at 3'6 jumpers forever, I can show other horses (am I right?) which makes no sense. Why can I do that at 3'6" but not at 4'?
                    Why don't you just show your horse in the open classes if you want to show other horses that badly? I don't think it's that unfair, either be a full-on ammy that only rides her own horses or ride your horse in the open classes and not only enjoy riding others' horses but also enjoy your wins more knowing you beat people that ride all day for a living!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bhrunner06 View Post
                      I was wondering if you are able to show in the AO jumpers, on a horse you own, and show in a schooling class or the open jumpers (ex: the 1.30s) on a horse you do not own (and of course not being paid or anything of that sort!)?

                      What about the AO jumpers (on a horse you own) and an adult am hunter (that you do not own)

                      Only if you have a formally recorded lease on the "other" horse.
                      Janet

                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Could one have a formally recorded lease for free if the other owner wanted an ammie to show their horse?

                        Edit: free from the owner, not usef free.
                        Last edited by SmileItLooksGoodOnYou; May. 27, 2010, 12:46 AM. Reason: Edit: free from the owner, not usef free.
                        friend of bar.ka

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Janet View Post
                          Only if you have a formally recorded lease on the "other" horse.
                          So if this is the case, why doesn't it state it in the rules???

                          Is this just "insider's" knowledge?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chef Jade View Post
                            So if this is the case, why doesn't it state it in the rules???

                            Is this just "insider's" knowledge?
                            "It's in the General Rules.
                            GR1108 Lease Registration.
                            1. The Federation encourages all lessors of horses competing in Federation competitions to register the lease with the Federation. A recorded horse must be shown under a lessee’s ownership provided an official lease is registered with the Federation"

                            If the lease is recorded with USEF then you show the horse in your ownership, no different than if you were the actual owner.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chef Jade View Post
                              So if this is the case, why doesn't it state it in the rules???

                              Is this just "insider's" knowledge?

                              Someone asked USEF, and posted the result here. It was also explicit in one of the Zone rules (for A/A).

                              The distinction is that you (or a family member)have to OWN the horse you show in A/O(leased horses not eligible). But the other restriction says you can't compete in A/O and "compete for a person outside of his/her family" at the same competition.

                              Apparently riding a formally leased horse doesn't constitute "competing for" the owner.
                              Janet

                              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by S A McKee View Post
                                "It's in the General Rules.
                                GR1108 Lease Registration.
                                1. The Federation encourages all lessors of horses competing in Federation competitions to register the lease with the Federation. A recorded horse must be shown under a lessee’s ownership provided an official lease is registered with the Federation"

                                If the lease is recorded with USEF then you show the horse in your ownership, no different than if you were the actual owner.
                                But not in A/O which explicitly excludes leased horses.
                                Janet

                                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Roxy SM View Post
                                  Why don't you just show your horse in the open classes if you want to show other horses that badly? I don't think it's that unfair, either be a full-on ammy that only rides her own horses or ride your horse in the open classes and not only enjoy riding others' horses but also enjoy your wins more knowing you beat people that ride all day for a living!
                                  Exactly.
                                  Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I agree with the last post and comment. Just change divisions. These competitions attract so many competitors and the rules are written trying to keep things fair. It might seem like one person with innocent motives should be given a chance to bend the rules - because you are innocent in your intentions - but the bigger picture is to keep things fair which FOR YOU - trust me - its better that you can choose to go against pros or not. So the rules actually ultimately make things better for you.

                                    If your goal is to get in the ring more - just change divisions.

                                    My question -cant you compete in the other divisions so you can ride more and then if you dont like that - switch back to AO with your horse alone.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Some horse shows have changed the (low) junior and amateur (jumper)division to exclude the term "Owner", making the charade much easier to pull off.
                                      Last edited by Jumphigh83; May. 27, 2010, 01:02 PM. Reason: typos
                                      The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        I understand what everyone is saying. and as for the changing of divisions...due to being an amateur, i have a full time job...so showing during the week is not always possible, which results in showing on the weekends...only classes offered on weekends are AO classes.

                                        Thanks for the input everyone.
                                        "If you are nervous you arent focused-if you are focused, there is no room for nerves!"

                                        Comment

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