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video of me jumping ahead [critique if you want!]

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  • video of me jumping ahead [critique if you want!]

    So I have some video of a lesson a few weeks back.

    We really have been working. I swear we have !! It just isn't there yet. Which is why I have been busted back down to 2' by my trainer. This lesson was a lot about pace, steering, and getting down the lines, so he isn't really yelling at me too much about jumping ahead, but I am still doing it.

    The new saddle is coming Monday, so hopefully that will help + some more lunge line jumping with eyes closed next week (we've done that once and it did seem to help).
    Patricia and Max
    "Look, I'm trying not to test the durability of the arena with my face!" (Because only GM can do that.)

  • #2
    As someone who has struggled with keeping shoulders back, and making to much upper body movement I can relate.

    A couple things that helped me. I literally roll my shoulders back before I pick up my canter. I think about exaggerating weight in my heels. I also try to envision myself positioned just behind the motion of the horse. As someone who is always ahead, this just places me in a more normal position LOL. I try not to think about the fence, I keep my eyes up and past the jumps (since they are so low), and I focus on supporting with my leg and letting the motion of the horse put me into a jumping position instead of jumping position to make the horse jump.

    It looks like you have had your weight come out of your heel, which is giving you an unstable base, resulting in tipping forward before you even have the opportunity to jump ahead.

    I watched a lot of videos of higher level jumpers because those riders HAVE to stay back. I think of those when I am going down the line.

    Good luck!
    The best sports bras for riders are Anita 5527 and Panache! Size UP in Anita, down in Panache (UK sizing)

    Comment


    • #3
      First of all, I love your horse!

      As far as your position, I used to do exactly what you are doing, and still do sometimes. I found the most helpful thing was one coach that I had said to stick my butt backwards over the jump.

      What you should feel at the base are 3 things: 1) sink into your heels so that they feel as though they are out in front of you
      2) butt goes backwards (if you had a tail, it would feel like someone was pulling on it behind you)
      3) hands release forward to crest of neck (this helps to counterbalance the backward movement of your hips).

      When you do it right, you will suddenly feel very anchored and secure.

      Good luck!

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thank you both!!

        Here is today and yesterday. Tomorrow I will have the new saddle.

        These courses are over our really cool Hunter Derby course, since the "big kids" (hehe, what I like to call the riders that do the real 3'6" derby) needed practice. In addition to the hay bales, we had a hedge last weekend, but that was rented to it had to go back. Lots of weird turns and broken lines, but good stuff for me to practice over!

        The Dreaded Derby Course
        "Look, I'm trying not to test the durability of the arena with my face!" (Because only GM can do that.)

        Comment


        • #5
          Cute horse! This is what I see from both videos. I think your lower leg looks both insecure and stiff. I think if you shortened your stirrups a hole or 2 and let your ankles and knees move as shock absorbers, you might feel more secure. Many people jump ahead because the stirrups are too long and they pivot on the knee. He also looks so pokey to me in the videos--I want to see him in front of your leg more! Rev him up and get him going. Really open up his stride a bit. I think he chips in those little strides in front of a few fences because he needs to be more forward. I know I tend to jump ahead when my horse is behind my leg, I think because I think I'm jumping for him or something.
          What I would try is shortening your stirrups a couple holes, getting in your half seat, and just letting him almost gallop around for a few minutes at a stretch to get him forward and to strengthen your base. In fact, do it until your legs are hurting! I used to do this with my horse before lessons, and my leg always felt so much tighter. Your butt should not be banging on the saddle in your half seat. Also, as another poster said, when you are approaching the jump think about butt back, rather than upper body forward.
          Good luck! He seems like a nice horse.
          Last edited by WishIWereRiding; May. 23, 2010, 10:09 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think your doing a really good job... much better than the pix.. for sure. With your new saddle you will be getting better and better....

            I agree with the other posters about your lower leg.. get it more solid... don't let your chest go down to the mane...

            The first fence you went down with your chest... but it looked like as you rode it got better.

            But good job... and keep it up... I know how hard this really is and it's definately not as easy as it looks....
            Live in the sunshine.
            Swim in the sea.
            Drink the wild air.

            Comment


            • #7
              He also looks so pokey to me in the videos--I want to see him in front of your leg more! Rev him up and get him going. Really open up his stride a bit. I think he chips in those little strides in front of a few fences because he needs to be more forward.
              This.

              I think if you get him in front of your leg and get off his back (let him carry you) you won't feel the need to make such a big move at the jump.

              He is a very cute horse.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                You guys are dead on!

                He is quite the pokey boy especially at this height! When I think back, the jumping does go better after we do some extended canter/hand gallop before.

                I actually have shortened my stirrups 2 holes from the pics I had posted awhile back, and I agree with you all, they need to be shorter still!

                Hopefully the new stirrup leathers I get tomorrow will have more holes, otherwise I will just punch some more

                Max is the best. He is perfect for me - trustworthy, but if I get too out of control he will throw in a little kick or hop to let me know to knock it off!

                We'll keep working...and working...and working...

                I don't mind though - I'm happy to park myself at 2'-ish until all these issues are solved, because who wants to see that going on at 3'? Not me, that is for sure. I actually saw someone with bad habits at 3' today, over at Gold Coast, and that just made me more dedicated to fixing the problem.
                "Look, I'm trying not to test the durability of the arena with my face!" (Because only GM can do that.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  WishIWereRiding said everything I thought when I watched your video. Once your lower leg is more solid, your hand will become more independent and you won't feel the need to clutch at your reins quite so much. Think about keeping an even contact with your horse's side all the way from your thigh down through your calf.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wanderlust View Post
                    WishIWereRiding said everything I thought when I watched your video. Once your lower leg is more solid, your hand will become more independent and you won't feel the need to clutch at your reins quite so much. Think about keeping an even contact with your horse's side all the way from your thigh down through your calf.
                    Ditto. WishIWereRiding pointed out all the issues that I think are making you struggle:

                    Stirrups need to be shorter
                    Stretch down into your lower leg (you're pinching with your knees and riding from there)
                    You need to be in your two point
                    Softer following hands
                    Let your horse move forward

                    You guys make a lovely pair, and I can see why you have been successful so far. Just keep at it and things will only get better.
                    Last edited by RugBug; May. 24, 2010, 05:36 PM.
                    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                      Ditto. WishIWereRiding pointed out all the issues that I think are making you struggle:

                      Stirrups need to be shorter
                      Stretch down into your lower leg (your pinching with your knees and riding from there)
                      You need to be in your two point
                      Softer following hands
                      Let your horse move forward

                      You guys make a lovely pair, and I can see why you have been successful so far. Just keep at it and things will only get better.
                      I would be cautious about riding in 2 point. I also rode a very pokey horse who would get to the base then add another. I believe that riding in 2 point actually set me up to be ahead of the motion. After spending a lot of time on him, I started jumping ahead, and other horses would stop on me.

                      I think that the OP needs to focus on weight in her heels with her shoulders back, driving her horse forward and letting the horse put her in position, not hover and try to find it. Once she has mastered that, she can work on using a half seat.

                      I am not a trainer, so don't take my words as gospel, but something that I have recently worked diligently on myself.
                      The best sports bras for riders are Anita 5527 and Panache! Size UP in Anita, down in Panache (UK sizing)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I love your horse, and you look like a great team!

                        Where do you ride? I swear I have been to just about every facility in So Cal, but that place doesn't look familiar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One thing I noticed that hasn't been said is that you seem to stand in your irons. Your knee goes straight almost and you stand up. Sit back and wait for your horse. He is trustworthy then take him thru a grid with your eyes closed. You will have to go with the horse instead of antcipate the jump. Agree with others on the irons and heel.
                          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AliCat View Post
                            I would be cautious about riding in 2 point. I also rode a very pokey horse who would get to the base then add another. I believe that riding in 2 point actually set me up to be ahead of the motion. After spending a lot of time on him, I started jumping ahead, and other horses would stop on me.

                            I think that the OP needs to focus on weight in her heels with her shoulders back, driving her horse forward and letting the horse put her in position, not hover and try to find it. Once she has mastered that, she can work on using a half seat.

                            I am not a trainer, so don't take my words as gospel, but something that I have recently worked diligently on myself.

                            This is actually a very good point. Since I ride TWO horses that have their pokey days and their race horse days - and sometimes during the course they have multi personalities - it's finding that balance of driving and half seat... more leg, less leg... less rein... more rein.. right leg... left leg.... right hand... left hand..

                            What I have found that helps my horses - weighting the heels, soft knee, wrap legs around horse, as I canter, using my thighs a soft up down rhythm (not noticable) soft quiet hand and think open "big" stride.. Sitting up with my chest and shoulders....

                            Yeah and so many of you out there make this stuff look SO easy!!!
                            Live in the sunshine.
                            Swim in the sea.
                            Drink the wild air.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AliCat View Post
                              I would be cautious about riding in 2 point. I also rode a very pokey horse who would get to the base then add another. I believe that riding in 2 point actually set me up to be ahead of the motion. After spending a lot of time on him, I started jumping ahead, and other horses would stop on me.

                              I think that the OP needs to focus on weight in her heels with her shoulders back, driving her horse forward and letting the horse put her in position, not hover and try to find it. Once she has mastered that, she can work on using a half seat.
                              .
                              Well, to that I would say "school the horse to the leg."

                              I also ride horses that would rather stand around than go anywhere. And both are spooky and sometimes would rather go backwards than over the jump. BUT, if I expect them to go forward when I close my leg...and school for that, they tend to listen. If I feel like I have to sit and drive...I need more schooling on the flat...simple as that. There are times when I do have to sit and ride a bit defensively...but if I ride that way all the time, I've eliminated that option from my "tool box". If they are expected to listen and react forward to my leg during a normal ride, when they are really scared...I have something to work with by increasing my ride.

                              Sitting to the jump often leads to jumping ahead because you are behind the motion and then feel like you need to make a big move to catch up to the horse over the fence. Make the horse go forward on the flat, expect to continue it jumping and you should be able to ride in two point just fine. You cannot let the horse close your angles unles you are in two point.

                              Important, though...is that you are in a balanced two point and DO.NOT. lean with your shoulders. You must wait for the horse. I imagine that if you were getting out in front of your horses, it wasn't the two points fault, but rather that you leaned at the distances.
                              Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                              Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                                Important, though...is that you are in a balanced two point and DO.NOT. lean with your shoulders. You must wait for the horse. I imagine that if you were getting out in front of your horses, it wasn't the two points fault, but rather that you leaned at the distances.
                                From what I saw in the video, she IS hunching her shoulders forward. She IS leaning. She IS standing in the stirrups. I never said to sit and drive, I said to sit and wait for the distance to come with more step. Her horse is obviously a good guy, and will probably tolerate her finding her body position. Once she starts to find that, then get in a half seat and try to duplicate the same thing while keeping her body in the new position
                                Last edited by AliCat; May. 24, 2010, 05:17 PM.
                                The best sports bras for riders are Anita 5527 and Panache! Size UP in Anita, down in Panache (UK sizing)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I'm with softening your hand. It seems like his canter is bouncing upwards instead of across the ground. Maybe soften the hand and send him forward, letting him keep a nice forward pace the whole way. Let him canter up to you. In the haybale section of the derby course he got a nice long canter and just floated over the bales.

                                  He's WAY cute and has a lovely lead change. You guys look like a great team!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by AliCat View Post
                                    From what I saw in the video, she IS hunching her shoulders forward. She IS leaning. She IS standing in the stirrups. I never said to sit and drive, I said to sit and wait for the distance to come with more step. Her horse is obviously a good guy, and will probably tolerate her finding her body position. Once she starts to find that, then get in a half seat and try to duplicate the same thing while keeping her body in the new position
                                    Well, you said to not two point and to drive the horse forward. Guess I assumed you meant sit and drive because I'm not sure what else to make of your comments.

                                    Either way...you CAN two point without leaning your shoulders. You can make a pokey horse go forward while in two point (might take some CTJ's for a few weeks but it will get there). If you had problems in two point on a pokey horse, it wasn't because you were in two point on a pokey horse, but rather because you were not correctly balanced in your two point and you weren't making pokey go forward.

                                    BTW - with OP's stirrup length and weight distribution, I'm not sure she could get in a correct two point right now. Her stirrups are too long and she's gripping with her knees. But, she's got to practice making her cute horse go and also practice her two point and then practice doing both together: first on the flat and then over fences. They are a cute team and once she gets more secure, they will be lovely.
                                    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Something that I don't think anyone else mentioned that will help with your base... get your stirrup on the BALL of your foot! It's way back at your heel (in both videos it finds its way back there!), and your ankle cannot act as a shock absorber with your stirrup there. If your had your heel down and leg stable, your stirrup would not slip back. I think that having a stronger base simply by changing where your stirrup sits will help a LOT!

                                      I LOVE LOVE LOVE your guy! I want one just like him!
                                      .:: a n d i ::.

                                      Currently horseless and hating it!
                                      Missing two very special horses - Maddy & Perry

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                                        Well, you said to not two point and to drive the horse forward. Guess I assumed you meant sit and drive because I'm not sure what else to make of your comments.

                                        Either way...you CAN two point without leaning your shoulders. You can make a pokey horse go forward while in two point (might take some CTJ's for a few weeks but it will get there). If you had problems in two point on a pokey horse, it wasn't because you were in two point on a pokey horse, but rather because you were not correctly balanced in your two point and you weren't making pokey go forward.

                                        BTW - with OP's stirrup length and weight distribution, I'm not sure she could get in a correct two point right now. Her stirrups are too long and she's gripping with her knees. But, she's got to practice making her cute horse go and also practice her two point and then practice doing both together: first on the flat and then over fences. They are a cute team and once she gets more secure, they will be lovely.
                                        You and I are saying the same thing, just going about it in a different way. The reason I am saying she should NOT be in a 2 point is because she can't possibly do it correctly until she improves her balance and pace. I know this all too well.

                                        Working on the flat in a regular seat (I guess like you would use in an eq class) with her shoulders back and improving her leg will get her to the point where she "feels" the balance point. Once I got my upper body in check, I had to focus on where my legs were. At that point I figured out how to get the response I wanted (more pace) without making an entire body movement. Then we started adding in small fences with long approaches maintaining the same seat, and focusing on keeping shoulders back. Eventually, I started doing 2 point again on the flat and between fences. It was something I had to relearn completely.

                                        Trust me, I can really relate to what the OP is going through! One of the girls at the barn had qualified for the big eq finals, and I swear watching those riders put in hundreds of rounds (yes, I did watch that many) at USET talent search and the medal finals really helped me envision the way I needed my body position to be.
                                        The best sports bras for riders are Anita 5527 and Panache! Size UP in Anita, down in Panache (UK sizing)

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