• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Help me fix my perpetual 4-faulter...

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help me fix my perpetual 4-faulter...

    Horse is an 9yo warmblood gelding, has a ton of scope, loves to jump, and is a little on the hot side. He is currently doing the 1.20's and it's easy for him - he jumps every jump great...except for the first jump, where he *always* has a rail.

    I've tried lots of different things in the schooling area - jumping a dozen jumps, jumping one jump, jumping a big vertical to get a rub, jumping a cooler, jumping a wide oxer, jumping a one-stride...you get the idea. Nothing seems to help. We've tried the long approach and the short approach, the gallop and the lope to the first jump, the deep spot and the long spot and it hasn't made any difference. We've also tried shadow rolls.

    We did move him down to the 1m for one class at the last show, and no first rail...but the way he jumps the rest of the course at 1.20, it's not like he doesn't have the ability...in fact, I think he'll comfortably be able to go much bigger.

    Oh, and sometimes he has the rail in front, sometimes behind. No apparent rhyme or reason. The rest of the jumps he rarely has even a rub, and he's never stopped.

    Anything obvious I'm overlooking?
    Please don't sabotash my conchess.

  • #2
    Have you tried a different rider on board to check if its rider error?
    I'd put my trainer up for a few classes and see how that went.


    • #3
      Have you tried giving him a couple of taps at the in-gate to wake him up? That worked like a charm with one of our old jumpers.


      • #4
        When you 'get a rub' in the warm-up just before you enter the ring, is it really just a rub or are you punching out the rail? Punching it out may be what he needs instead of just touching it.
        I'd rather be riding!


        • #5
          More than likely it's you. Not to sound harsh, but 90% of the time it's true. Put a different pilot on him to see what happens.
          There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the
          inside of a man.

          -Sir Winston Churchill


          • #6
            Given all that you have stated you seem to have broken it down to him being just a little lazy or lacking focus in the ring.

            If it was my horse, instead of trying to tune him up before he goes into the ring I would focus on getting him jumping in proper form, and letting him remind himself that it is this proper form that makes his job the easiest.

            A very good method of getting a horse to jump in proper form is to school them over something that challenges them.

            I would do nothing but trot fences before the class, and by fences I mean "fences". Start off over a cross rail and continue to increase the height and dimension of the fences, this need not be a ton of fences either, good flat work to warm-up and 10-15 fences should be more than enough.

            Remember the idea here is not for the horse to wreck or tune himself, it is to get him to focus on his form over a fence.

            I have found that with scopey, but unfocused horses that generally once they trot down to a 4' -4'6" square oxer they will generally start trying, and this will carry over to the ring.

            As I said the concept is simple, they will have to get on their hind end, they will have to pull their peddles up, they will have to tuck behind and they will have to carry that impulsion through the fence and to the next stride.

            This is an old technique of my fathers and it has never failed me as long as I have been using it.

            Good Luck!


            • Original Poster

              Lots of good ideas, thank you! Hauwse, I got very similar advice re: this horse from a trainer I really respect, just haven't been to a show to try it out since I spoke with her. Definitely the next plan we'll try.

              Originally posted by woodhillsmanhattan View Post
              More than likely it's you. Not to sound harsh, but 90% of the time it's true. Put a different pilot on him to see what happens.
              If I'd read the OP rather than posting it, I'd probably be saying the same thing, but...I am not the rider, I am the (retired-from-riding) trainer of a student who leases and shows this horse. I honestly don't think she is the problem. And just to make sure, we have tried another rider, not a pro but a good riding ammy, and had exactly the same issue.
              Last edited by Haalter; May. 16, 2010, 05:34 PM.
              Please don't sabotash my conchess.


              • Original Poster

                Originally posted by Hauwse View Post
                Given all that you have stated you seem to have broken it down to him being just a little lazy or lacking focus in the ring.
                It's funny to say that a "hot" horse is lazy, but I agree with this. Well, more like he gets distracted when he enters the ring, and finds his focus by the second jump.
                Please don't sabotash my conchess.


                • #9
                  Maybe the rider is a bit nervous and hesitant when entering the ring? That happens to the best of us.


                  • Original Poster

                    Except the rider has ridden a number of other horses that go fine over the first jump with her...Really think this is a horse issue vs a rider issue. She may not be helping him out with this issue, but I really don't think she's creating it with nerves or otherwise.
                    Please don't sabotash my conchess.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Haalter View Post
                      Except the rider has ridden a number of other horses that go fine over the first jump with her...Really think this is a horse issue vs a rider issue. She may not be helping him out with this issue, but I really don't think she's creating it with nerves or otherwise.
                      I'd still say try someone else on board just for kicks. I don't doubt that the rider is competent but could be some sort of mental block with just this particular combination.
                      ETA: Ok so you did try another rider and it wasn't the problem? good deal. Maybe try the trot fences as others have suggested.

                      I do agree that it sounds like the horse can't get his focus quick enough. I would try some transitions to sharpen him up right when you get in the ring. Walk in...pick up a canter, halt, canter off again. Test the gas and brakes, as in lengthen stride and shorten before you head off to the first fence.
                      Last edited by SkipChange; May. 16, 2010, 08:16 PM.


                      • #12
                        I second lots of trotting jumps - and work up to quite big. But dont wait for the show - start now!! Trotting big jumps takes practice. . . and some fortitude!
                        http://www.facebook.com/olddominionsaddlery Like us on Facebook!!


                        • #13
                          What about a tap with a stick before the first fence like "hey, wake up!"
                          Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
                          My equine soulmate
                          Mischief Managed (Tully)- JC Priceless Jewel 2002 TB Gelding


                          • #14
                            Yup, trot some BIG jumps on a loose rein. When they have to figure it out, it tends to stick. I would also really take out a rail just before going in. Not rub it, annihilate it.


                            • #15
                              I am the (retired-from-riding) trainer of a student who leases and shows this horse. I honestly don't think she is the problem.
                              You know the old adage is that if the first jump comes down it's always the trainer's fault .
                              Go straight from the last schooling jump directly into the ring. You may want to try a walk jump as your last one, if getting a good rail before you go in has not made a difference, then maybe thinking about each leg will make the difference.


                              • #16
                                It sounds like to me that the horse could be thinking back at the rider to the first fence. Then he has a rail, realizes he is on course, starts looking and thinking ahead, and goes on to jump well.

                                I would free-jump the horse at home, get his mind to activate in front of the jump. It interesting to see what a horse does without a rider. Does he run, slow down, leave long, chip? Get his brain working independent of the rider a little. Then, at a show, I would have the rider, the first couple of jumps, do absolutely nothing. Not a thing. Just steer him to the middle and then bury her hands in the mane and let him do it. This tends to get them thinking! Then you can do that to a little bigger fence somewhere in the middle of the warm-up, too.
                                "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."


                                • #17
                                  Have you tried getting up a good gallop before fence 1?

                                  I used to have the same issue with my gelding, jump-1-itis I would call it. I showed this horse up to 4'3, schooled 4'9 courses with no issue at home so it was not a scope issue for sure. Our final solution was to go straight from the last warm-up fence into the ring. Then, trot past anything that needs 'a look,' and then pick up a good forward gallop in the half-seat. Once I got my horse really moving out in front of me and into the bridle I'd sit down, collect to a forward working canter, march down to fence one and really spur off the ground to get that 'umph' need to remind my horse that it was time to go to work. It worked for us.


                                  • #18
                                    Back in the day when I showed in the junior jumpers I had a horse that I needed to get focused on his job before I began my course - he wouldn't have a rail - but if he wasn't paying attention to me before starting the course he would potentially stop at the first jump. I used to make him gallop into the ring (which I realize is not allowed now a days, but you could gallop after entering the ring) then pull him up back him up a few steps and then make him gallop and collect. Just to say "hey we are starting here you need to pay attention to me and the task ahead." Once he was focused and a bit "ready" he was great.

                                    I have also seen people who go in the ring and do some canter to counter canter transitions, or trot, canter transitions - again just to get the horses attention on working in the ring and ready to go to the first jump.

                                    I am not saying this is your rider, but I see a lot of inexperienced jumper riders pick up a canter and go to the first jump. I think when a horse walks into a new ring it needs to be reminded to focus on the rider and working, not its new surroundings. Everything that was done in the schooling ring can be lost standing at the ingate or entering a new spooky ring. A lot can be done in the sixty seconds that you have from the buzzer to getting to the first jump (or is it 45 seconds now - its been a while since my time in the jumper ring!). Make sure your rider is utilizing this time to properly prepare her horse for the first jump, and get her horses attention on her and jumping.

                                    Good luck - keep us updated on how things go.