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CANTER cutie - I hope these posts don't get old! UPDATE: WWYD?

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  • CANTER cutie - I hope these posts don't get old! UPDATE: WWYD?

    I keep telling myself that PA is too far away and that I do not have the resources to take on a project but this horse is just catching my eye. What do you all think? I do not have the best eye for conformation so I'm interested to learn from you all. Now, if everyone comes back saying he does look like a nice prospect, well, I may be posting from PA soon! Ah, if only.

    One thing I like about him is that he is 8, so he may be more mentally mature than the others. Maybe that's stupid, but I like that.

    http://canterusa.org/index.php?optio...&directory=343
    Last edited by mustangsal85; May. 14, 2010, 06:45 PM.
    "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

    www.thestartbox.wordpress.com
    www.useaiv.org

  • #2
    I really like him!! And he's had 47 starts, finishing in the money 21 times! If he is indeed sound, he's made of iron. I bet he will be a big, thick dude when he's not racing fit. His dad is a brick house, and he looks just like him. From the little I know about bloodlines, his seem pretty nice too. If I was going to pick at his faults, I would say his hind pasterns look a little long to me and he would be impossible to find a saddle for with those withers/curvy back.

    I want to go to PA to get him but I'm a poor college student!

    Comment


    • #3
      I like this horse as well. I think conformation wise you would have to be really nit-picky to find any issue's, and with conformation a few minor issues are not the problem it is the one big one that usually gets you.

      It is always hard to tell with pictures, but the only thing I can see that I would want to check is that he does not toe in bad on the right front. From the pictures I cannot tell if it is him or the picture, and it could be minor if at all.

      In my experience you are correct, his age, combined with soundness is a plus. I have found that an 8 yo coming off the track is going to give you a big head start as far as new career development goes.

      I have also dealt with Teddy before and she knows her ponies, and has a good eye for those ones suited for a new career in our discipline.

      As stated his bloodlines are fairly impressive as far as TB's go. If we just stick to his 5x he has a number of quality hunter/jumper producers, they key probably being Damascus, sire of Napur, GP mount of Hap Hanson and Will Simpson. This of course does not mean he will be a GP horse, but I do know a lot of round about Damascus horses that have shown exceptional talent.

      Comment


      • #4
        These posts never get old! I dont have an eye for confirmation either, but this guy is nice!! Im not a huge fan of chestnuts anymore(I think ive owned too many, and need to mix it up) but I like the look of this guy! I'd atleast go check him up...or get a COTHer that lives closer to do it for you!
        Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
        White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

        Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.

        Comment


        • #5
          He looks like he's built a bit like my horse, and to my eye that means too big a shoulder.

          I'm definitely not a confo expert - that's just my gut reaction. I'd love to have someone who knows more explain if I'm right or wrong.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by AliCat518 View Post
            These posts never get old! I dont have an eye for confirmation either, but this guy is nice!! Im not a huge fan of chestnuts anymore(I think ive owned too many, and need to mix it up) but I like the look of this guy! I'd atleast go check him up...or get a COTHer that lives closer to do it for you!
            Oh you are just putting ideas in my head!!!! So tempting. And it seems to be a steal at $1000. Ugh.. what to do. I would be worried, sight unseen, buying a horse even if it was vetted because I would have no way of knowing how the vet check actually went, unless CANTER is the one providing the vet check? I have never gone through them for purchase before so I don't know how involved they are.
            "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

            www.thestartbox.wordpress.com
            www.useaiv.org

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by dauntless View Post
              He looks like he's built a bit like my horse, and to my eye that means too big a shoulder.

              I'm definitely not a confo expert - that's just my gut reaction. I'd love to have someone who knows more explain if I'm right or wrong.
              That's sort of what I thought too.. now, if the horse has "too big" of a shoulder, what does that do to affect their performance and movement? Ugh, I took a confo class in college and don't remember anything from it!! He looks fairly well put together to me but I know there are some experts on this board. How does the big shoulder affect your horse?
              "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

              www.thestartbox.wordpress.com
              www.useaiv.org

              Comment


              • #8
                I think his shoulder matches his rear, but the barrel and neck look small. Barrel might look more right with more groceries, but I doubt that neck will ever fit the shoulder. Like I said in another thread, the ultra high level eventers I had in town last week were all built like that though.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  NorthFaceFarm, can you elaborate a little more? Do you think his build would have a negative effect on his performance? IF I were to take this further I would want him to be a jumper and perhaps a lower level (Training, Prelim AT THE MOST) eventer.
                  "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

                  www.thestartbox.wordpress.com
                  www.useaiv.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't think the neck and barrel being thin should be a problem. Most racehorses have thin necks and that tucked up barrel. That neck has potential as it is muscled all backwards right now (like most racehorses), and look at his daddy-- I have a feeling that's how he will end up. (Can you tell *I* want him )

                    To enable you even more, I will tell you the (abbreviated) story about how I got my first horse. I was 13. My mom (completely non horse-y) went to put CANTER in her favorites as we just started looking at horses. She saw that a new horse had been posted and clicked the link and found a chestnut with 4 white socks and a blaze. Every little girls dream. She called on him that second and after getting a million calls, the trainer saved him for us and waited until we could take a look a couple days later. So my non horsey mom and me, a 13 year old, go down to look at a 3 yr old OTTB. At that point I was in love so we handed over the cash and had him shipped. No vet check, no trainer to look at him, nothing. I had him for 7 years and just sold him for 10x his sale price. He never had any soundness issues and evented for 6 seasons with no supplements/hock inhections. Jumped him up to 4'6" too.

                    If he speaks to you, get a good vet to check him over and send the cash. Maybe a COTHer from the area will volunteer to go see him?

                    ETA: just saw your post. Considering he did fairly well on the track, I bet he will be athletic and sound enough for your goals. I've seen horses with a lot worse conformation go Prelim. He has a nice eye, too, which is always something to be considered. I bet this one has a big heart and is a tryer.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mustangsal85 View Post
                      NorthFaceFarm, can you elaborate a little more? Do you think his build would have a negative effect on his performance? IF I were to take this further I would want him to be a jumper and perhaps a lower level (Training, Prelim AT THE MOST) eventer.
                      I'm pretty sure with weight the barrel will even itself out and look ok. He isn't long or weak looking there.

                      His neck WILL look better with proper muscle development for a new career, but I think it'll always be a little short and attached just a little "off". Without seeing him go I can't say whether his conformation has a significant impact on his suitability for your needs but I would be surprised if it WAS a problem. Lots of them are built this way, and are useful in the jumping disciplines.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        You are such an enabler!! Great story about your horse. Gosh, I am so tempted now. I need to sit down and budget and figure out if I have the resources to be able to ship him here.
                        "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

                        www.thestartbox.wordpress.com
                        www.useaiv.org

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Conformation aside guys he's 8.
                          Hard wear on the joints even if he ran from 3-8 thats what 8+ starts year 1 race a month??
                          Concussion on the feet, longer exposure to pre-race medications and daily maintanace, only been what a year since the no steroid rule in PA.

                          Pull his complete form and see how often he raced per year, the length of gaps between starts allowing for track maintanace seasonally weather etc.

                          I would have to x-ray the ankles, feet n hocks for sure.

                          Mind wise he may not be as easy to adjust as a youngster since its basically the only life style he knows.

                          Being older isn't always better.

                          Not saying he won't be a rock of soundness or calm n easy.

                          Get a list of vets and pick one, have him verify horse by lip tatoo and ask for a blood drawn tox screen even if you don't run it vet can spin down and freeze n hold.
                          Make sure trainer doesn't know until vet tells him they are pulling a tox screen right now. Vet will ask for drugs horse has been given.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A vet familiar with what you hope to do with the horse can give you a thumbs up or down on whether the horse should hold up. They aren't psychics, but the good ones usually know. Images of nearly everything should be a given for any horse off the track.

                            My other hobby is sports car racing. People never want to buy cars that have been "tracked". They think the wear and tear is just awful and there is no way the car will hold up long term. They fail to realize that most people who are into cars and driving enough to take their vehicle to the track for high performance driving schools, time trials, etc. take REALLY good care of their equipment. Track cars are some of the most mechanically sound ones out there. TB's aren't always that different. A good trainer keeps his horses in a good program, and you shouldn't be swayed from the horse simply by virtue of his race record.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Northfacefarm has good points

                              BUT he is running at Penn Nat' not Belmont.
                              They will do what they need to do to keep squeezing a check out of the horse.
                              The fact that he is still running at 8 says either he is stone sound, brings home enough money to earn his keep and or they have been able to keep him sound enough to use to as a horse that runs well enough to keep their start numbers up.

                              Do spend the $$ to pull his lifetime start record and look for gaps of say anything over 90 days between starts and see how often and steady he runs. Thats the "Tell" if he is sound and hasn't had to have time off to reslove issues.
                              Yes they get gaps for weather track resurfacing, and waiting for their "condition/eligabilites" and seasonal closures but Penn is a 24/7 365 place.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I just bought a seven-year-old coming eight in December. MUCH better brain than my previous horse who was four and gelded after racing. Quieter, long since got the post-gelding sillies out of his system, fairly unimpressed by noise, activity, things like the tractor or lawn mower, very used to being handled. His only real issue is he thinks retired means RETIRED, as whaddya mean, go forward? How about we just walk? Slowly? After this, I would be unlikely to buy a track baby again and would definitely look at an older horse. The vet at FL who did my PPE commented that if he held up to racing, there wasn't much I could make him do that was likely to bother him.

                                And this guy has a nice sire (Golden Missile.)

                                He seems to have averaged about a race a month, sometimes a little more, sometimes with an extra few weeks (like going Pimlico to Colonial to Delaware--I don't remember the timing but I wonder if that was when Pimlico closed, as those weren't claims). His race record looks like he's a decent runner, a lot of Starter Allowances, making okay money, and he's just getting older and less competitive. He doesn't seem to have the closing kick he does on earlier charts. My biggest concern would just be giving him time off and body soreness, as he's been racing pretty steadily. The trainer who sold me Lucky even recommended a three-month layup as he'd raced steadily since the winter season, and he thought the horse needed a physical/mental break. I don't see anything in the charts where Golden Archer's been vanned off or pulled up, either. He just seems to be getting slower, but overall has been profitable.
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                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  For those who have commented on his record and pedigree - am I retarded or do you need to have a CANTER account to see that information? On my screen I don't see a link to view pedigree and PP...
                                  "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

                                  www.thestartbox.wordpress.com
                                  www.useaiv.org

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    www.pedigreequery.com!!

                                    Here's him:
                                    http://www.pedigreequery.com/golden+archer

                                    Then if you click on his dad and scroll over the little picture icon next to his name, you can see his photo.

                                    Info can be found by scrolling over the little i next to his name.

                                    I think you need to be a member of something to get the race records, but I'll leave that question to someone else.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      You can buy Performance Records from Equibase. I bought my horses a couple years ago I think it cost under 10 bucks. Could have changed by now of course.
                                      If only horses would use their athletic powers for good instead of evil. ~ MHM

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbH...885&registry=T

                                        http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pe...ts_indicator=N

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