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Thoughts on Morrissey Controversy?

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  • #21
    Got it, youtube is hard to watch here, crappy rural internet. Thanks for the details. If that's true, I'm glad their investigating it.

    Comment

    • #22
      Originally posted by Roxy SM View Post
      To me it didn't look like he pointed the horse at the standard, but rather that the horse started balking MANY strides out and was trying to go to the right from very far back and he was trying to keep him lined up but wasn't succeeding. I think that's why it looks to some like he was directing him at the standard. Do I think it was way too many smacks in the show ring, yes. Do I think it was abuse, no.
      I have to say I agree.

      Comment

      • #23
        Even more important than what we horse people think...what does the general PUBLIC think about BEATING the horse? VERY VERY VERY BAD public relations. Three hits is the rule for a reason. Not that the horse might not have deserved a righteous beating but that was NOT the time OR the place. Reprehensible behavior. Tempers have NO place on the back of a horse, let alone in front of the public who certainly would not understand! Grow up Mr Morrissey and learn some self control.
        The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

        Comment

        • #24
          I'm sort of somewhere between DMK & Seeuatx....

          The rule is 3 smacks. It should be enforced, no matter who you are, so I'm glad they're doing it.

          I don't think it was abusive, but I do agree with Seeuatx that it looked like the rider was having a temper tantrum, and there's no place for that on the back of a horse. EVER. Back when I was instructing (before the dinosaurs, kids), I'd have yanked you off the horse, given you thirteen good ones on your OWN backside, and sent you home cryin' if you pulled that in front of me.

          So yeah: Clear cut rule violation, and absolutely should be sanctioned.
          "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

          Comment

          • #25
            Originally posted by Roxy SM View Post
            To me it didn't look like he pointed the horse at the standard, but rather that the horse started balking MANY strides out and was trying to go to the right from very far back and he was trying to keep him lined up but wasn't succeeding. I think that's why it looks to some like he was directing him at the standard. Do I think it was way too many smacks in the show ring, yes. Do I think it was abuse, no.
            Exactly what I saw, and you summed it up quite nicely too . This particular test is one that would be very hard to replicate in the schooling ring. Looks like he's probably seen a lot of ribbons go by the wayside because of this particular spook. Heck, he may have even weighed the options - how many months of suspension to (maybe) finally fix the glitch that will eventually be the failure of this horse?

            Do you all stop smacking at 3 at home? I'll fess up, there's been times.

            There were 12 smacks (in a row) because there were 12 strides between the Impulsion Sucking Corner and the Big Scary Water. He did take great care to take away the "straight" excuse second time around. All smacks aside the reproach was ridden very well, I'm guessing he knew that even the best ride wouldn't cut it.

            Should have to suffer the penalty for breaking the rule - and I highly doubt he wasn't already acutely aware of that. We're all better off if no one looks at this and screams ABUSE! There are plenty of other horses truly suffering out there.
            EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

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            • #26
              Dags--

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              • #27
                And I would venture to guess that 99% of the folks screaming abuse have never even come close to jumping an FEI level course with an open water in it....sigh.
                "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
                carolprudm

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Tap2Tango View Post
                  Does anyone remember the incident with Kate Levy a few years back? I believe she was fined and maybe even suspended for overuse of the whip.
                  Yes, but Kate Levy turned the whip over and hit the horse with the handle end IN THE FACE.

                  I actually think MM's ride to the water was well done, for home. For the show ring, he should have smacked 3 times and called it quits. I DO think he should have been DQ'ed and/ or fined for breaking the rules, but abuse/ tantrum? No way. Just a schooling ride.
                  When the boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks the closet for George Morris. -mpsbarnmanager

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by SkipChange View Post
                    Dags--
                    Agree.

                    Comment

                    • #30
                      The ride did exceed the rule concerning the number of smacks so I'm sure he will be disciplined. However, I feel that it was an appropriate ride. The horse obviously has an issue with the open water.
                      "ronnie was the gifted one, victor was the brilliant intellect, and i [GM], well, i am the plodder."

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                      • #31
                        IMHO: rules is rules, and in any event, this is not justified.........
                        We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

                        Comment

                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Alterrain View Post
                          Yes, but Kate Levy turned the whip over and hit the horse with the handle end IN THE FACE.

                          I actually think MM's ride to the water was well done, for home. For the show ring, he should have smacked 3 times and called it quits. I DO think he should have been DQ'ed and/ or fined for breaking the rules, but abuse/ tantrum? No way. Just a schooling ride.
                          Thanks for clearing that up. Very different case from what happened this time.
                          Originally posted by JSwan
                          Prove it....Otherwise, you're just coming off as a whackjob.
                          Founding member of the "Not too Klassy for Boxed Wine" Clique

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                          • #33
                            Wow. I can't believe so many of you think this was ok, as far as discipline goes. The horse was going forward the second time, hitting every stride was too much. I am not a never hit the pretty pony type, but this was too much.
                            www.ncsporthorse.com

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                            • #34
                              Rules is Rules.

                              That said- I agree with the poster who said it wasn't anywhere near abusive. The "smacks" didn't look hard- just in rhythm with the canter. Make pony PAY attention.

                              This isn't abuse. Its education. Its a little wake up call for a horse who looked bratty.

                              Comment

                              • #35
                                Originally posted by shea'smom View Post
                                Wow. I can't believe so many of you think this was ok, as far as discipline goes. The horse was going forward the second time, hitting every stride was too much. I am not a never hit the pretty pony type, but this was too much.
                                The horse didn't look committed to me until a few strides out. He definitely wasn't forward through the turn and the strides immediately following, IMO. Rider used crop once, went to put his hand back on the reins and the horse was completely ignoring his leg and then the every stride spank started. Next time I'm guessing the horse will listen to the leg in the first place.

                                I also agree with the assessment that it wasn't rider error, but a horse running out to the right.

                                Do I think the use of the whip was excessive? Yes. Abuse? no. The rule was broken, he will pay that price for that as he should.

                                I personally wouldn't use a whip that much, but then again, my horse sucks back and I can't get him to go anywhere sometimes. He would probably be a better horse if I committed to using my whip a little more than I do.
                                Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

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                                • #36
                                  To me it looked like the horse quit a very long way out, not that the horse wasn't being ridden straight. That would have been the best time for using the whip initially.
                                  Then the horse stops, yet the rider waits and waits before using the whip. Why not use the whip immediately after the horse refuses?
                                  Rules are rules. If you only have 3 hits allowed, I would say one as the horse drifted right, then one straight after he stopped, then another one on the second approach.
                                  Just beating and beating like that isn't acceptable no matter what level you compete at. Anyone here ever beat their own horse 13 times hard in a row like that? I haven't...

                                  Comment

                                  • #37
                                    This was a temper tantrum on the part of the rider plain and simple. To strike a horse like he did in public is appalling and is abuse. And if this is how he is in public, what is going on behind the barn? Regardless of "who" you are, rules are rules, they are in place for a reason. There are consequences to actions such as this.....he will find out I am sure. Will this hurt his business? I sure would think twice before sending a horse to him....
                                    Bethe Mounce
                                    Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                                    https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                                    Brentwood CA

                                    Comment

                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by dags View Post
                                      There were 12 smacks (in a row) because there were 12 strides between the Impulsion Sucking Corner and the Big Scary Water. He did take great care to take away the "straight" excuse second time around. All smacks aside the reproach was ridden very well, I'm guessing he knew that even the best ride wouldn't cut it.
                                      Yesh. Absolutely. It was a smack per stride - c'mon, how many people cluck every stride?

                                      Yes, he broke the rules and should be punished, but it was not abuse. A horse who has issues with water is no fun, not to mention not very marketable.

                                      Comment

                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Pirateer View Post
                                        Rules is Rules.
                                        Especially the Pirate Code, aaarrrgh!
                                        Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

                                        Comment

                                        • #40
                                          Not abuse. Too many hits, yes, per the rule. But not abuse. Calling it abuse cheapens what REAL abuse is.
                                          Laurie

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