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Opportunity to own a great horse? Good/ bad idea?

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  • #21
    Remember the adage "If it's too good to be true,...."?
    Do your due diligence:
    Full PPE first, this may make your decision for you.
    Pass PPE?
    Can you afford to keep this mare long term?
    Yes?
    Buy her for $1.00.
    Be willing to go back to square one. Be willing to take TIME with her. Enjoy her and have FUN! Get to know her so you know when to ask for more and when not to. Try some Dressage/Trails, etc. Mix it up for her, she will probably appreciate it.
    Do not feel pressured to do anything with her you're not comfortable with - period. It will only be counterproductive.
    If after giving it time you two don't mesh (you'll know), you can breed her.
    Good luck and let us know what happens!
    Some days the best thing about my job is that the chair spins.

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    • #22
      Sounds to me like th horse needs a break. Has it really been doing GPs every week for that long? Does seem very suspicious the horse just started running out even though the rider has been riding this way all along.... but could happen. I would think that if a really nice winning GP horse started running out and trainer couldn't help then the vet would have already been called in. Why would they try to give horse away and not at least try to sell it?

      Proceed with caution many red flags, but if horse can pass vet, (x rays too) and you can ride it with confidence then go for it.

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      • #23
        Maybe someone else asked this already but why isn't the trainer interested in her?
        With all of his/her contacts, I would think that if mare needs a different ride/ tune-up that this would be a $$$ opportunity.

        Comment


        • #24
          good point trees4U, again back to the other ammies who bought the wrong horse and trainer's hubby showed at their expense!! perhaps same idea here, you take over expenses, forced through quick trial with horse, you can't handle horse, hubby rides, etc. as you were afraid of.

          Bottom line horse with winning show record starts running out because of the rider's style and there is no effort made to give the horse a few months off for attitude adjustment, no vet checks? Just give the horse away?

          Don't want to be overly dramatic but I would almost say start looking around for a new trainer.....but off course nature of this board is we know much less about this situation than you do.

          let us know what happens.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by mvp View Post
            Well, *I* would take her, but let me tell you who I am and why.

            First, I'd buy her outright for $1 and probably do a PPE. That's because I can't afford to pay for too many retirees. I don't want to own a broodmare (again).

            Second, I'd give the mare the kinds of test-drive rides that would allow me to figure out 1) if I could rider her, and 2) if I could figure out why she was running out. This would be about me, my ideas, my abilities, my repertoire of things to try, not the trainer's.

            Third, if the mare passed that muster, I'd take her with the understanding that she might need to step down a level. Can you live with that? Can you make that lower-level jumper or eq horse rideable and a resale project? Do you want to be in that game?

            The good news about this mare is that there is probably lots she can do even if this one BNJR can't get her to win in the ring he wants the way he wants right not. This is not an unsound, untrained one-- there's lots of room below her current job. You (or someone else) could find plenty of use for her.

            This is all about you can do with this horse, and with or without this particular trainer. Depending on your ability in the saddle and communicating with your trainer, and depending on his ability to teach people to ride in a way that suits the horse, the trainer's idea that you buy this on is great. Everyone wins. But if that didn't work out in 6 months and I owned the horse, I'd have to be prepared to find the trainer who could help me.

            You may ask yourself whether you are in a barn where the trainer sells clients the kinds of horses she likes and can ride, or the one the client needs. Does she bend over backward to please "big clients" and not care so much about the little ones? If you get the sense that either of these is true and you won't leave or can't stand up to this, you may be the patsy in a "dump the horse" situation.


            If it were me, I'd make sure no one dumped a horse on me that I couldn't or wasn't prepared to improve, whatever that took.

            Best of luck to you!
            This is excellent advice, especially what I bolded.

            I would be a tad bit hesitant (sounds like you are) that the parents just want to offload a nice mare because she isn't working out. Make sure they are willing to transfer ownership so that 6 months down the road when/if you get the mare going nicely, they don't come back and say, "Ok, lease time is up! Thanks". And I would do an extensive PPE. It might be that the mare is a bit overfaced, and dropping her down a few levels would make her more comfortable. Or, she could be hurting somewhere. I have found with the mares I have owned that they are always SO stoic when they are hurting, so they may not show any unsoundness, but their attitudes change a little. Perhaps that is the cause of the rushing?
            Also, I would caution on having high expectations. You have to be ok with your decision if she doesn't work out. And it sounds like there are plenty of people who would take her to breed!

            Good luck in your decision. It sounds like a great opportunity if the mare passes GO on the transfer of ownership and PPE.

            Comment


            • #26
              I'm on board with what most of the others have been saying. Sounds like a nice horse that has been frazzled and is sour from too much campaigning.

              If you get along with her and are willing to give her some time off to be a horse, have a mental vacation, go on some trails, whatever and then get back to work it sounds like you could be getting the bargain of the century. Of course, that is if you cross your T's and dot your i's by getting a PPE and buying her for a $1 with a signed contract.

              I don't really know your situation but I think I'd take a good hard look at your trainer and then look around and see if someone else in the area might be a better fit. Your posts raised a few red flags for me.

              Comment


              • #27
                I would try the mare and see if you get along first of all. Next thing I would do is a through PPE to determine what the maintenance will be. If there was something found, it wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker if I really liked her. I would just like to know so I could get her program where it needed to be

                I would make sure that the deal was clearly outlined before I took her. I wouldn't want to spend a year chilling her out and getting her right again for the former owners to step up and say "Ummm I want my mare back". I would make sure that they sell her to you for the $1 and make it legal.

                She sounds like a nice mare that might be really happy stepping down to an easy job with a more laid back approach. Plus as everyone else said, she might make a really nice baby Make sure that you have chemistry with her and if you can line out the details, I would take her in a heartbeat Good luck!

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Trees4U View Post
                  Maybe someone else asked this already but why isn't the trainer interested in her?
                  With all of his/her contacts, I would think that if mare needs a different ride/ tune-up that this would be a $$$ opportunity.

                  I am 50% with this and 50% with Lordhelpus (welcome back Pam, we miss you). By all means, if you can afford to carry a second horse, go ahead.

                  I just cannot get my mind around the parents spending who knows how much to buy that mare, thousands to haul her around and enter those GPs, get ribbons and checks with her often enough and just wanting to now give her away.

                  There must be more going on here. Be careful. Gut feeling here is something is not quite as it seems.

                  Sudden changes in behavior tend to not be rider related when the rider has had them awhile and competed them successfully (more or less). May not help but the run out/past or stopping is usually physical and can be complicated by the mental aspect of getting pounded into the ground on the circuit week after week after week.

                  She may be done as far as GPs are concerned, if you want to proceed, get a good vet evaluation on her and GET OWNERSHIP. In WRITING.
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    One of my clients had a friend who got a free GP horse. The girl was on cloud nine thinking she had just been given the greatest horse in the world... turns out horse had some BIG time mental issues that made it very unsafe (horse flipped over on trainer and put her in the hospital). I'm not saying this is the case at all, but a GP horse is worth a lot of money. Even if it can't compete in GP anymore and just needs to step down a few levels it will likely still be worth something in the mid/high five figures. The only reason why I would think they might consider giving away a perfectly good (albeit in need of some retraining) horse to you is if you are very close family friends or are just incredibly (or insanely) generous people.

                    And I agree with what others were saying about the trainer. You should question the trainers motives a bit- why the trainer isn't taking the horse themselves and if the horse is really suited for you.

                    Remember, even though the economy is bad and people are giving away perfectly nice horses, GP horses aren't being given away and are still being sold for good money. However, I really hope this works out for you because you will be living every riders fantasy- a very generous person giving away a grand prix horse! (I used to fantasize about this when I was little)

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I'm think I may know what horse this is... and as someone else said, it was only a matter of time until this started happening with this horse, too. Mare is amazingly kind and tolerant to put up with that ride for so long.

                      I'll PM you, but if it is who I think it is... take her. Seriously, take her. If she doesn't work out for you, you can always sell her later on or breed her or ET her. And if you don't want her, you can give her to me. Drool.

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                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        Nothing has happened yet! But just wanted to clear some things up:

                        Mare does NOT have a "winning show record". She has a consistent middle- of- the- pack record. SOME wins, SOME high scores, but mostly medium.

                        When I said "every week" of course I didn't mean EVERY WEEK. Trainer goes to probably 35-40 shows a year, so the mare shows in one or two GP 35-40 weeks out of the year.
                        When the boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks the closet for George Morris. -mpsbarnmanager

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Alterrain View Post
                          Nothing has happened yet! But just wanted to clear some things up:

                          Mare does NOT have a "winning show record". She has a consistent middle- of- the- pack record. SOME wins, SOME high scores, but mostly medium.

                          When I said "every week" of course I didn't mean EVERY WEEK. Trainer goes to probably 35-40 shows a year, so the mare shows in one or two GP 35-40 weeks out of the year.
                          BUT, sound, sane people don't just give sound, sane GP horses away for free.

                          And I'm surprised the BNJR's parents would be looking to have someone "pick up the costs" of her board, seeing as they obviously have some $$$ to burn. If they no longer want or need her, why aren't they advertising her for sale?

                          She might be the steal of the century, but I'd proceed veeeeeery carefully with the current owner and trainer.....
                          "Go on, Bill — this is no place for a pony."

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            35-40 shows with 1 OR 2 GPs each in a year is ALOT. GP trainer up the road from my barn, a big money winning name who hauls alot, does not do that to his. Even the winners, certainly not the wannbes that are middle of the pack at best. I know 2 Olympians that don't show theirs like that either.

                            I know some rich people (as in high 5 and 6 figure purchases for their kids) that are quite generous. But they would never just give one of those away...oh, they'd lease it out for just the bills. Never give up ownership.

                            Like I said, something does not seem right about them giving away a 75 to 125k horse they spent 20k hauling around for nothing. Not so sure trainer pitching it to you is in your best interests either...or that they are telling you the whole story.

                            Have you ridden this one? Some of these are flat hard to ride and you may not do much better then the kid does...or have different issues. And/or she may be in pain and needs extensive time off and rehab. Then you'd have 2 you couldn't ride.

                            All the talk of getting a foal out of her? Quite a few show mares with alot of years in the ring have trouble conceiving and carrying to term. Maybe it's the Regumate, Depo and whatever else they have been on. But they can be tough to get a baby out of.

                            Just not sure about this very unusual deal.
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Alterrain View Post
                              Trainer goes to probably 35-40 shows a year, so the mare shows in one or two GP 35-40 weeks out of the year.
                              That is a lot of jumping, too much IMO. Not surprised if the mare is just burnt out, she needs a break. Still, the entire situation is suspicious.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I agree with findeight!! It sounds too good to be true x 10.

                                If she is all that and a bag of chips I'll come get her. I'll even pay more than a dollar.

                                Breeding is a crapshoot--is she registered? Get those papers when you buy her for a dollar!!

                                Even rich people don't give sound, albeit sour horses away. They don't stay rich that way. Shoot, they don't give high performace-level unsound horses away either.

                                Is she really old?

                                Why doesn't this kind of thing happen to me?
                                DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
                                  Even rich people don't give sound, albeit sour horses away. They don't stay rich that way. Shoot, they don't give high performace-level unsound horses away either.
                                  Actually, they do. I've seen more than one that was a throwaway from a top SoCal trainer's barn when they stopped performing at the very highest level he wanted them to be at. "I want the horse out of my barn by the end of the day. Bring your own halter."

                                  Seriously, I couldn't make this up.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I know someone...

                                    That got a VERY HIGH LEVEL hunter for a dollar. The horse was in a barn where turnout was limited to about 1 hour a day, ridden at the exact same time each day, and LIVED the rest of the time in 12x12. Was worth about $200k, colic-ed 2 times and was given away thru a rescue. So they took the write-off.
                                    With NORMAL turnout, this horse hasn't colic-ed again... But also isn't showing at the level of before either...
                                    " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers. Wood Routed Stall and Farm Signs
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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by wanderlust View Post
                                      Actually, they do. I've seen more than one that was a throwaway from a top SoCal trainer's barn when they stopped performing at the very highest level he wanted them to be at. "I want the horse out of my barn by the end of the day. Bring your own halter."

                                      Seriously, I couldn't make this up.
                                      People are crazy. I was at a barn where a barnmate's father got the idea he's do reining (the entire barn was hunters, I don't know where he got that idea from). They dropped $50,000 on a gorgeous, well trained reining quarterhorse. About 6 months later dad lost interest and they literally gave the horse away. There was NOTHING wrong with it. Dad just didn't care to do the horse thing any more and selling was too much hassle (and our trainer quite honestly admitted he had no experience in reining and would have to send the horse out to be sold by a professional in that discipline). It was literally just easier to give him away so they did. NOTHING wrong with the horse. PERFECTLY nice and not even out of shape-- the kids hacked it after dad lost interest. Just gave it away!
                                      ~Veronica
                                      "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                      http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

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                                      • #39
                                        Just say NO and call me with the owner's number. I need a horse to ride that already knows how to canter.
                                        Trinity Hill Farm

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          It's a very intriguing situation and while it could be a deal of a lifetime, I'd be very, very careful about taking on a horse that's stopped performing and that your trainer is pressuring you to buy.

                                          First, you need to see if you get along with the horse. If the horse intimidates you, don't buy it because you think the situation will get better.

                                          Second, spend the bucks to get a thorough PPE so you know it's not a physical problem, of if it is, whether you can afford the maintenance required to keep her comfortable.

                                          Third, make sure this is a sale and that you get a contract.

                                          Fourth, bring in a neutral person to evaluate this horse and your ability to ride her. NOT your trainer as she seems to have an agenda of some sort. Pay someone to come in and give you a lesson on the horse and then privately tell you what they think.

                                          Yes, I've known people who've gotten horses that someone who had more money than sense threw away. But that's rare, especially when a trainer is involved and she might get a commission from the sale. Maybe she wants you to buy the horse so her hubby can ride it and then get a bigger commission?

                                          I've come across two horses that were too good to be true deals. One was a gelding that had been winning on the A circuit as a junior jumper. I loved this horse. He'd jump anything for me and on a loose rein, to boot. I rode him for the trainer selling him for three months. He *was* a tricky ride. Someone came to try him and he put them in the hospital with a dirty stop, probably because he didn't like how they rode. But when I had him vetted he also had some navicular changes that would probably have impaired his performance sooner rather than later. I cried but passed on him.

                                          Second horse was bought for a junior rider. Very expensive and very fancy. After a year, he had developed a nasty stop and a big buck. They were literally giving this horse away. I drooled over him. I told my trainer I'd give him six months off and then start him over. She shook her head and told me not to bother. The horse had developed some habits that were going to be very, very difficult to fix. A year later I ran into the person who took him . . . . she was complaining about the big buck and the occasional dirty stop.

                                          It can work out, but go into the situation with as much information as you can get.

                                          Good luck!
                                          Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
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