• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Greenbean Support Group~ have a question! (or post a question here!)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Greenbean Support Group~ have a question! (or post a question here!)

    It's been 10+ years since I've broken a youngster to ride, and my filly will be 3 at the end of April. I've had her since May of last year, and we spent the summer learning basic longeing, ground manners, etc. I started her under saddle lightly in the fall, very basic walk and trot, before giving her the winter off. (I had surgery the week of Christmas & was out of commission until February.) I would say before then she had been ridden 10-12 times.

    I have now started back with her, and she's doing pretty good, with the exception of one instance where we parted company (my fault & I got back on, ending on a good note)

    We're now at about the 20 ride mark, and today was a good ride. She is finally catching on to "leg means forward", though she is still lazy (she does have her silly moments, so I don't let my guard down). She knows whoa, her steering is getting better, and we worked today on big circles at the sitting trot (good for both of us). I'm trying to work with her 3 times a week ideally (not always a ride, sometimes only time for longe). She is cantering fairly well on the longe, her right lead is still sticky but improving.

    My dumb question is: When should I introduce cantering under saddle? I am in no hurry and have no deadline, and certainly don't want to overface her. Should I give it another couple of months and just keep concentrating on what we've been doing? Am I on the right track? Anyone have ideas, suggestions, or tips they could offer?

    Like I said, it's been a long time since I've broken one from scratch, and I'm wanting to take things slow and do it right. So far, so good. Guess I just need reassurance more than anything that I'm doing right by her.
    Last edited by HuntJumpSC; Apr. 9, 2010, 11:32 AM.
    Crayola posse~ orange yellow, official pilot
    Proud owner of "High Flight" & "Shorty"

  • #2
    We introduce cantering as soon as the horse steers well and stops well. So I would say now would be a good time. BTW, I think it's way too early to be sitting the trot. A baby isn't going to have the strength to carry the rider like that. Esp if she's lazy, you need to be going forward, in front of the leg- not poking along with a rider sitting on the back.
    http://patchworkfarmga.com

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree about the sitting trot at this age. My three year olds are antering under tack, both ways of the ring. Haven't cantered circles yet but that will be next.

      Comment


      • #4
        others might disagree, but.....

        I take it really slow with the babies, and don't move up a gait until I've really mastered the former.

        So I do a good amount of walk work until it's really stabilized and strong before asking for the trot. That way I know I'll get a pretty decent trot to make better, rather than a disconnected, all over the place trot that I have to fix and THEN improve. After the trot is stabilized and balanced, I then work the canter. The benefit is that I'll have a rather strong back to help me get a great canter, and it's rather easy transition.

        But I brake a lot of ponies; with a horse, I can see the concern of have a too strong horse to unseat you in a canter should they play it up or voice any opposition. Therefore, I can understand why many would say introduce it earlier than I do so as to establish the "quiet canter" before they are too strong enough to do otherwise.
        www.englishivyfarms.com
        Hunters, Jumpers, & Welsh Ponies
        All I pay my psychiatrist is the cost of feed and hay, and he'll listen to me any day. ~Author Unknown

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Hmm, so I need to nix sitting the trot at this point? I'm thinking maybe after a few more consistent rides, then I'll try asking for a canter. Her brakes are good and her steering is much improved. Keep the suggestions and ideas coming...
          Crayola posse~ orange yellow, official pilot
          Proud owner of "High Flight" & "Shorty"

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree too that sitting the trot is best left for much later.

            As for cantering, I start them at it right away, 6th, 7th ride. They know the word canter from work on the lunge line so that makes it easy. Cantering on a big circle will be difficult to maintain, so I just do 2 point around the ring a couple times each direction not worrying about which lead in the beginning. I just want them to GO.

            My coming 4 y.o. is just starting back into work and he's now strong enough to canter well on a circle, and not break to a trot after 2 times around. Big difference from last year.

            Just keep in mind they just aren't strong enough to do what you're asking most of the time. Keep it short and fun for them, and build a little bit more each week.
            Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

            Comment


            • #7
              I ask for the canter after I have a good quality gait on the lounge, and my horse feels "happy" under saddle at the walk and trot-balanced, brave and focused on me.

              I use lots of voice with my horses, too. It helps the horse make the connection with the other aids.

              With the last 3 I've started, I've used a round pen in addition to the lounge line. I think they understand "go forward" sooner at liberty in the pen than on the lounge. I've had less resistance to upward transitions after using the round pen.

              Good luck-green horses can be an addiction.

              Comment


              • #8
                You are more than ready. Sometimes the easiest way to get your canter the first few times is to hop over a "pile of poles" or a flower box and just let them canter off. For some reason they just naturally pad the ground softer and don't get all discombobulated. Personally, I am against discombobulation (is that a word?) for the young horse! Never be afraid to toss on a western saddle for the first few canters. A wise, wise woman taught me that...

                Leave the sitting trot for now, as others have mentioned. I try to think of putting together a show hunter in stages. You start long and low, and then later you teach collection and work them deeper, and then you stretch them back out in stages when they are ready for self carriage. So much fun ahead! I feel you sister, my filly says hello to the saddle in May.
                Trinity Farm LLC
                Quality hunters and jumpers at Midwest prices
                Like us on Facebook:
                https://www.facebook.com/TrinityFarmLLC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Justice View Post
                  You are more than ready. Sometimes the easiest way to get your canter the first few times is to hop over a "pile of poles" or a flower box and just let them canter off. For some reason they just naturally pad the ground softer and don't get all discombobulated. Personally, I am against discombobulation (is that a word?) for the young horse! Never be afraid to toss on a western saddle for the first few canters. A wise, wise woman taught me that...

                  Leave the sitting trot for now, as others have mentioned. I try to think of putting together a show hunter in stages. You start long and low, and then later you teach collection and work them deeper, and then you stretch them back out in stages when they are ready for self carriage. So much fun ahead! I feel you sister, my filly says hello to the saddle in May.
                  I agree with this post, this is how we often ask them to canter, and yes we often use the western saddle to start cantering! I also agree do not sit the trot yet, that is too much for a youngsters back.
                  www.shawneeacres.net

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lesson junkie View Post
                    Good luck-green horses can be an addiction.
                    Completely agree.
                    www.englishivyfarms.com
                    Hunters, Jumpers, & Welsh Ponies
                    All I pay my psychiatrist is the cost of feed and hay, and he'll listen to me any day. ~Author Unknown

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I do tend to wait until they have some good balance at the trot, but I've also done ground driving and lunging where I know they have that balance without me. I shy away from that discombobulation thing as well.

                      I just got back on my three year old a few days ago. I planned on putting 90 days on him last August, but decided to try and cut my thumb off (opposable digits, who needs 'em?) in July so I opted for major surgery and 7 months of rehab instead. Fun times. But by late October I was freed from Barney the Brace (he was Very Purple) so I started him then. I got about 5-6 weeks under tack before winter finished us off. I got a solid W-T going and the last ride I asked for a canter and got about 10 strides without him being skeered about it so I called it quits, figuring the weather was going to interfere too much for consistency (boy, was I right).

                      Anyway, he's back under tack and generally being a rock star and so far he feels like he could start cantering tomorrow, but there are a few rules I think must be in place before I canter:

                      1. Can the horse go in a straight line with little assistance from me at a trot? (because all steering gets drunken as soon as you increase speed)

                      2. Can the horse sort of move off my leg with overt signals. I'm not talking refined finished signals, but if I put my inside leg on him and overt weight in the outside stirrup and use some serious rein guidance, does he fall in on my leg or start to think about moving away?

                      3. Can he do serpentines and figure eights and other unexpected changes of direction at a trot?

                      4. Does he understand the basic idea between a slow trot and a fast trot, can he change speeds within a gait without stress?

                      5. Does he feel balanced at that first trot at least 95% of the time? Any youngster has moments of discombobulation, but when they first start a gait most feel unbalanced until the get used to it all over. If they are finishing good but still doing the drunken sailor routine at first, I'm not sure I'm ready.

                      That said, I'm not in a hurry and I want to make sure all of the above are reliably in place. I'm not one of these start 'em no younger than 5 people (obviously) and take 3 years to proceed to a canter types. But on the other hand, my pressures are not related to resale or clients, so I have the luxury of working on the schedule that makes me happy, and I realize that. However I firmly believe that if you get that correct foundation on the walk and trot you spend less time training them to get a balanced rhythmical canter, and that is the gait I plan to spend a lot of time with in the future. In the words of Quality College, it's a DIRTFooT gait (Do It Right The First Time). I also think everything I described above can be done inside of 60 days if you laid the proper groundwork and you know when to push forward and when to take it easy (and you mostly get it right). If you don't know these things, then you should take longer because nothing is more wonderful than the blank slate that is a baby. Rework sucks, why make it for yourself?
                      Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Awesome thread.

                        Drunken sailor routine ?? rotfl Never thought of calling it that.

                        Adding my own..Bought my pony the summer of 08, but I had worked with him previous to that. The first time I met him, he was uncatchable and I spent hours day after day just catching him (this is in a dry lot too, not even in a big pasture). He was sold and then a year later his owners contacted me asking me if I wanted to buy him. By that time he was catchable and friendly but dragged on the lead line, took fright at the slightest thing (not even spooking more a willful disobediance from fear rather than beligerance), didn't know how to lunge or tie or stand quietly for the farrier. Now after a few months of ground-manners, ground-driving and finally riding he's w/t/c quietly under saddle with circles, serpentines, and figure 8's at all gaits, has adjustablity of stride, and was just started o/f. He's turned into a calm, sweet, friendly pony and every ride is seriously just plain fun.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Greenbean Support Group question

                          Originally posted by englishivy View Post
                          I take it really slow with the babies, and don't move up a gait until I've really mastered the former.

                          So I do a good amount of walk work until it's really stabilized and strong before asking for the trot. That way I know I'll get a pretty decent trot to make better, rather than a disconnected, all over the place trot that I have to fix and THEN improve. After the trot is stabilized and balanced, I then work the canter. The benefit is that I'll have a rather strong back to help me get a great canter, and it's rather easy transition.

                          But I brake a lot of ponies; with a horse, I can see the concern of have a too strong horse to unseat you in a canter should they play it up or voice any opposition. Therefore, I can understand why many would say introduce it earlier than I do so as to establish the "quiet canter" before they are too strong enough to do otherwise.
                          I have an easier time starting horses than ponies. I have picked up my pride more often on a naughty pony, than a horse. There just is no neck between you and the ground! Of course this happens more while jumping a naughty pony. Where would the world be without a few naughty ponies to keep us humble!

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Thanks guys! Great responses & even better advice~ that's what I love about COTH: I can come here, ask my question, and be well-assured that I'm going to get sound advice, as well as other's experiences.
                            Just in case anyone is wondering, let me clarify~ I only worked her at the sitting trot that one time the other day, and not for a long period of time. That being said, I'll be taking heed and holding off on that for awhile now.
                            The idea of the ground poles is a good one, and it actually crossed my mind. I'll be working her again Saturday, so I may set up a few & see how we do. I'll keep ya'll posted on how things progress.
                            Crayola posse~ orange yellow, official pilot
                            Proud owner of "High Flight" & "Shorty"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If they canter on the line and you can steer and stop and have a contained area just in case...canter...and enjoy!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by NoExcuses View Post
                                I have an easier time starting horses than ponies. I have picked up my pride more often on a naughty pony, than a horse. There just is no neck between you and the ground! Of course this happens more while jumping a naughty pony. Where would the world be without a few naughty ponies to keep us humble!
                                quite true!

                                I always tell the kids I'm more than likely going to bite it on the small, and probably get hurt worse, than off a WB. Any pony jock has been there at least once... you're riding around, having a grand old time when, BAM! next thing you know, you are on the ground. How the heck did I end up down here? You don't even have time to tuck and roll.

                                But what is nice with the ponies is that if you need to jump ship (I once had a medium start crow hopping and spinning on me, which was fine, until the saddle starting to slip.....) you can usually do a emergency dismount and land easily on your feet. The girls say I always look like a gymnist, hand up in the air in everything.
                                www.englishivyfarms.com
                                Hunters, Jumpers, & Welsh Ponies
                                All I pay my psychiatrist is the cost of feed and hay, and he'll listen to me any day. ~Author Unknown

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  If they are balanced enough then I like to canter after the first couple rides. It may just be a few steps down the straight line. My theory here is that way they do not have a big drama fit when you ask for something new. Its rather something they have been doing since pretty much day 1 under saddle. Yes, I did have a very hard mare to break and it was easier to just do everything at once. I also cantered her on the lunge line first before doing so around the arena. Granted the arena I broke her in had no fencing. Umm yea that can be interesting for some. I had a gelding that for some reason could for to the left like a pro, but switch to the right and I let my guard done for 2 sec and we were out of the ring! Needless to say I had to use some creative way to get him going right and keep him in the ring, but we got it done within a few rides. That horse was not easy to break as you couldn't lunge him without him rearing and flipping himself (long story), but I learned a lot breaking that one. I had another one that every time I asked for the canter on the lunge he threw a huge twisting buck. Needless to say my first time cantering him I held my breath and went ahead and asked him the 2nd ride just because I needed to see if he was gonna buck me off and that was an issue I needed to handle. Thankfully he never did buck under saddle! (Well after I sold him, he may of bucked his new owner off after a winter break...whoops)

                                  I also agree sitting trot is too much for this stage. I would introduce the canter if I were you.
                                  I love cats, I love every single cat....
                                  So anyway I am a cat lover
                                  And I love to run.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Well, I didn't get to ride today. My 16 month old little boy was sick all last nite with his first stomach bug, ugh! Poor little guy, wish it had been me instead. He's much better tonite & sleeping, hopefully tomorrow I can get out there and get in a ride.

                                    I did get to longe her yesterday afternoon and she was perfect. Nice and quiet, and cantered nicely every time I asked, no silliness at all and listened very well. She picked up her right lead several times, which is her weaker side, and is improving by leaps & bounds with it.

                                    Maybe the weather will cooperate (calling for severe storms) and I'll be able to give that canter a try tomorrow. Keep ya posted.
                                    Crayola posse~ orange yellow, official pilot
                                    Proud owner of "High Flight" & "Shorty"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hugs for the baby boy! Keep us posted. She will have a great canter. I saw the link of her brother (or maybe just by the same stallion?) and he is so cute too- you can definitely tell they share blood. You picked such a nice one.
                                      Trinity Farm LLC
                                      Quality hunters and jumpers at Midwest prices
                                      Like us on Facebook:
                                      https://www.facebook.com/TrinityFarmLLC

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Thanks, Justice.

                                        Unfortunately, still no ride yet. Hubby was sick all last nite with the same nasty bug, and I stayed home with my little guy today. He was doing better till late this afternoon and he's relapsed. Staying home again tomorrow~ if he's not better by noon, it's time for the doc. (We've been in close contact with them all weekend)

                                        It also poured rain last nite, so gonna take a day or two to dry out. Maybe, just maybe, later this week, things will be back to normal!!!
                                        Crayola posse~ orange yellow, official pilot
                                        Proud owner of "High Flight" & "Shorty"

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X