• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Advice needed

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Advice needed

    removed
    Last edited by onawhimfarm; Sep. 24, 2007, 01:52 AM.

  • #2
    Oh... wow.... I guess if I was told from the outset that "it wouldn't cost me a thing" ... that is what I would think....

    I have had kids ride my horses when they didn't have their own, and I "didn't pay for a thing". The kid pays for the stall, classes etc. But it was all discussed before the horse left the property.

    I think you need to sit down with your trainer and express your concern and what you "thought" would happen and then what "did" happen. Then go from there.

    Good luck... I always say that communication is everything.
    www.CastleHeartFarms.com
    Hunters, Jumpers, Equitation and Ponies
    Don't practice until you do it right, practice until you can't do it wrong!

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh wow... Yeah I'd be mad too. I'd definitely sit down and discuss this with your trainer. Depending on the outcome of that discussion I might not be willing to let my horse be ridden/shown by anyone in the future. To me that's just ignorant that the person showing your horse didn't pay at the beginning of the show.

      Don't most shows require you to pay before you get your number and get to show?
      __________________________________________________ _
      Proud member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals!

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thank you for the reply. The trainer is not my trainer I just board my horses there. I have been involved in the AQHA show world where we can't have others show our horses so I thought maybe I was missing something. I guess I assumed "won't cost you anything" meant just that...

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          The trainer left an open check at the show office which I think is pretty standard....at the end of the show everyone showing went and closed out their bill. Thanks for the reply.

          Comment


          • #6
            Wow--you got screwed.

            They used your horse for free (I assume you didn't charge a show lease fee which is common just so you know).

            You paid the show bill.

            You are being sent the shipping bill to pay.

            I assume you will also be sent the training & day fee bill for the horse also.

            I think you need to quickly sit down & have a very frank discussion with said trainer & rider AND rider's parents about how you generously loaned them a horse for free & have already paid the office bill which you WILL be re-imbursed for ASAP & that all other bills from this escapade are to be paid by rider/rider's parents. And I would remind trainer of her words "it won't cost you a thing". If they balk even in the least, I would quickly whip out a "lease bill" for using your horse & make sure it's high enough to cover all the costs you have paid, will still have to pay & to compensate you for loss of use while your horse was gone.

            I would then seriously re-consider whether I would be continuing to board at this barn or with the trainer. Looks like trainer was trying to find a free ride for this rider.
            "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, I think you should speak to your trainer.

              However, it's possible that the trainer meant you wouldn't have to pay the student to ride, while you would have had to pay the trainer.

              Regardless, the trainer should have been really clear about everything you were expected to pay prior to the show. And, from what you said, I would have expected not to pay a dime.

              Oh, and congrats on your new horse!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like an expensive lesson.

                I would sit down calmly with the trainer and say something like, "I was very surprised to be told I had to pay a show bill for my mare after you asked me to allow your student to show the horse and told me it would cost me nothing. As you know, I paid the bill, mostly because it took me totally by surprise. I did you and the student a favor to lend her my nice horse to lesson and show on... please explain this to me."

                Trainer will probably say something to the effect of, "well, what I MEANT was you would not have to pay for a pro ride, but of course you have to pay all the regular expenses, like shipping, stalls etc."

                Personally I would feel like I had been set up... and would say, "Well, clearly that was a pretty big misunderstanding. I did not buy this horse in order to provide your other students with free showing/lesson opportunities. Is the student prepared to pay for any of the expenses SHE incurred (class fees, etc) ... I assume she paid you for coaching? "

                Trainer might then say, "well, you misunderstood and no, she is not going to pay for her class fees since she only did it in order to help you/school your horse."

                In which case, I would calmly say, "thank you for the clarification. Frankly I am very disappointed that all this was not disclosed up front. That kind of situation won't work for me, and I need to make it clear that my horse is not going to be made available for people to borrow anymore."

                By the way, I would seek out the student and tell her that you need to let her know there was a misunderstanding. "Student, I will not be able to let you ride Trigger anymore. WHEN YOU ASKED TO BORROW MY HORSE, I was told there wouldn't be any cost to me, and I assumed you would pay your own showing expenses. I wasn't looking for a lease fee or anything like that; I thought you would enjoy riding her and I would enjoy seeing her show. However, I was told after the fact that I had to pick up all your expenses, which add up to $X once you factor in shipping, stalls, entries etc. I will pay them this one time, however, I hope you can understand that I did not buy this horse in order to pay for other amateurs to lesson and show for free... so I will not be able to offer you any further rides, lessons or shows."

                Good luck
                **********
                We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                -PaulaEdwina

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  The only things I can think may have happened is that the trainer did mean I just would not have to pay the student the ride. The student is a decent rider but not someone I would ever foot the bill for to have show my horse. I would have much rather paid a bit more and had the trainer ride the horse if i had known I would be paying the bill anyway. The horse has been around and knows what she is doing, but she has to be made to work otherwise she just goes along and "hangs out" which is what she did. Like I said, not the type of rider I would willingly foot the bill for. The trainer actually rents a barn on the property I keep my horse at. My horses are in another barn all together. I am just confused since I was basically told this girl pretty much begged to show my horse and it wouldn't cost me anything.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thanks so much for the reply I think I will do that. I wonder who would pay for everything if I asked the trainer if I could show one of her horses...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by onawhimfarm View Post
                      The student is a decent rider but not someone I would ever foot the bill for to have show my horse. I would have much rather paid a bit more and had the trainer ride the horse if i had known I would be paying the bill anyway. The horse has been around and knows what she is doing, but she has to be made to work otherwise she just goes along and "hangs out" which is what she did.
                      You know, I would point that out to the trainer. They took advantage of your kindness in letting someone who doesn't have a nice horse to show borrow yours. I would also be very clear that "it won't cost you anything," means NOTHING COMES OUT OF YOUR WALLET... not "the ride is free as long as you pay hundreds of dollars of other expenses."

                      This was not a horse that just needed to get out and experience a show environment... in which case any competent rider (including you) could have gotten the job done. It sounds to me like the trainer saw an oppty to make some money (I am sure she got paid, both for coaching and possibly the shipping, right?) and give her student a nice free ride on a nice free horse.
                      **********
                      We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                      -PaulaEdwina

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This is crazy. I'm amazed you paid the bill - I would have walked back to trainer and/or student and said "they need your checkbook at the show office".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You shouldn't have had to pay a dime, and really, if anything, they should have paid you to use the horse since you obviously didn't ask them to show it for you. In the past while riding others horses/ponies, if I paid for classes (I haven't taken any overnight or where stabling was required) I kept all winnings/ribbons, if they paid, they got everything.

                          Sounds to me trainer pulled a fast one on you and I wouldn't let any of them use your horse again and would ask for reimbursement. Do not pay the hauling fee.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Boy, sounds like a real set up.

                            Benefitting the student and the trainer...and you get to pay. Whoppee.

                            Not like this was a greenie. Not like it NEEDED more show miles and it's not like you asked to do this.

                            Next time don't allow anybody to take your horse anywhere without a complete understanding of who is paying for what. Remember the "everybody knows that" and it's partner "I thought you knew" are blow offs. Don't get taken again like this.

                            And, you know, this nice horse does not NEED to go to any shows to justify what you spend on her. if YOU don't want to go, are not ready, cannot afford it, so what? Your horse.

                            You mention this is not your trainer, just trains where you board. I would keep it that way, and shame on her for not being up front about what it was going to cost YOU for her student to show your horse.

                            That, my friend, is usually paid by the person using the horse at the show. ALL of it.

                            You got screwed.
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You should not be expected to pay anything.

                              If this was my daughter using someone's horse to show on I would have been at that show office closing out with my own check. I would have been mortified if the owner paid for everything in your situation as you describe.

                              The student should also be expected to pay his/her coaching fee for the event as well as the trailering.

                              This is one of the reasons I send in my own entries, I did not trust our past trainer to complete the form properly and on time. I also would take care of my own fees for stabling, shipping and etc. Got burned on that one too many times.....she tended to pad that bill with extra cash for her pocket and split it up amongst her clients.

                              Ask for all costs up front on a price list and go over it with both Mom of student and trainer that is taking the kid to the show.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Let me add something here...

                                First off, in Eq the rider is judged so NO WAY should you have paid for that.

                                Second, you don't pay somebody else's student to ride your horse.

                                Third, and most important, in the H/J world we PAY the owner to use the horse PLUS pick up all expenses.

                                I would send them a bill for leasing the horse that weekend-oh-$100 a day is customary. Minimum.

                                In the future, do not let anybody show your horse like this without signing a short term lease contract stipulating they pay everything plus a lease fee.

                                Do not pay the hauling fee.

                                Look for new barn.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  If you were supposed to pay the bill then the trainer owed it to you to discuss the fees up front and allow you to chose the classes the child would go in and how many classes etc.

                                  Too bad you didn't just get in your car and go home and let the trainer's check cover it. That would have sent a message.

                                  So here is the scoop on the hunter world for future reference "there is no such thing as a free lunch" so when someone wants to "borrow" from you, grab your husband/wife and your wallet and run to the hills.

                                  The only one that profitted was the trainer who will get training fee and had a nice horse at the show.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Did you adopt this kid? If not, her actual parents should pay her show bill. Unless it was very clear that you were hiring her to ride for you, you did her a big favor just by lending the horse for the show!
                                    Treat Jockey for Spellbound and Smidgeon

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by onawhimfarm View Post
                                      I am just confused since I WAS basically TOLD this girl pretty much begged to show my horse and it wouldn't cost me anything.
                                      Promise, last thing I am going to add.

                                      Another problem here, you were TOLD. You did not speak directly to this girl. Mistake because who knows what she, or her parents, said.

                                      Answers the why question though...I would bet this girl and parents did not realize they were/should be footing the bill. I bet they said no because trainer did not explain it to them so you were preceived the easier target and got stuck. This actually makes sense-parents didn't know they had to pay ahead of time either and refused.
                                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Thanks so much for all the replies. I will probably be ready to show the mare in a couple months and am looking forward to doing so. I thought I was doing the student a favor by letting her ride my horse since I was not ready. The trainer even made the comment to the student "now we can work on YOU"...I took that to mean the horse knew what she was doing and they were going to work more on the students riding. The student is about to be 18 so not really a child. I am happy to find out this was the exception and not the rule

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X