• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Amateur Status ... I know...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Amateur Status ... I know...

    I have searched this numerous times and I know it is always coming up. COTH even has an article on it. But I had a question that I need clarified as I could not seem to clarify it myself by the USEF rulebook. If there is another thread that has the answer, please direct me to it. I also know that you can call USEF but this is a hypothetical situation.
    I am not 18 yet. I do not ride for any renumeration.

    Hypothetical Situation:
    19 year old
    Grooms, Mucks Stalls, General Care of Horses
    (General Working Student Position)
    Receives: place to live, board on horse, meals, and gas.

    The person gets to ride horses as an extra. Sometimes receives lessons on them. Riding is not in job description. Does not ride at shows, except own horse or catch rides. Entry fees are paid by owner of horse.

    Is this person still an amateur?

  • #2
    No, because she receives horse board, which is specifically listed as remuneration, and rides horses she does not own at the same barn.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by CBoylen View Post
      rides horses she does not own at the same barn.
      (I am not arguing just clarifying)

      Does that make any ride on another horse at the same barn from an amateur take away from the status? That doesn't make any sense, then AA vs. AO classes wouldn't exist.

      Or are you saying because she receives the renumeration of the board AND she rides the horse therefore she is no longer considered Amateur?

      So, if she didn't receive the board but still hacked horses on occasion and catch rode it would be within the rules?

      Comment


      • #4
        Or are you saying because she receives the renumeration of the board AND she rides the horse therefore she is no longer considered Amateur?
        Yes, that is what I'm saying.
        If she didn't receive the board it would be much less clear cut under the rules, but someone could conceivably argue the housing and meals as remuneration under "partial support".

        Comment


        • #5
          Right - you can't receive renumeration for employment in any other capacity (groom, secretary etc) AND ride a horse you don't own at that barn and remain an amateur.

          You could ride all the non-owned horses you want at any other barn, without harming your status.

          The point of this aspect of the rule was to prevent people from *saying* they were employed in a non-riding capacity (groom, secretary, etc) when in fact they were actually being paid to ride (while showing as amateurs.)
          **********
          We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
          -PaulaEdwina

          Comment


          • #6
            Colleen you seem to be having difficulty interpretting the rules and posts. I think you really want to be an ammy in your current situation The above is correct that if your board is paid for, in partial or full, and you ride horses for that barn then your no longer an ammy for the show season that you turn 18 (not to be confused with 19). When I turned 18 as a working student I had to choose to pay for my own expenses, but be given lesson or go pro and have board and some lesson covered. I went pro.

            Lucassb- we seemed to have posted at the same time.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Thank You! Much clearer now.

              There was an argument at a barn about this recently and that is what I thought, but was told I was wrong by a professional and wanted clarification.

              And flyracing: I was CLARIFYING a point. I wanted to be sure I had the BEST and MOST CLEAR information to present to someone.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry, It is always good to clarify.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by colleen9 View Post
                  Thank You! Much clearer now.

                  There was an argument at a barn about this recently and that is what I thought, but was told I was wrong by a professional and wanted clarification.

                  And flyracing: I was CLARIFYING a point. I wanted to be sure I had the BEST and MOST CLEAR information to present to someone.
                  Good luck with that.

                  In my experience, when people are arguing about the amateur rules it is generally not because they don't understand them. It is because they don't like them and have no intention of following them
                  Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.
                  Serious Leigh: it sounds like her drama llama should be an old schoolmaster by now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    RockinHorse - I couldn't agree with you more.

                    -Chris

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the reason the ammy rules are so convoluted etc is that there were always pros who "figured out" the way around them

                      the riding nanny /bookkeeper/ cook was the big ploy

                      this told to me by former Pres of the AHSA and VBNT

                      everyone did it.

                      many continue to do so and will try to convince others they are right. I know well established pro who have never read the rules for their discipline

                      OP you are a pro by the rules
                      _\\]
                      -- * > hoopoe
                      Procrastinate NOW
                      Introverted Since 1957

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Since I don't have the USEF rulebook right in front of me......

                        Does anyone know what the time frame is to wait without having practiced as a professional to get your ammy status reinstated?

                        I have been a "Professional" for the past 9 years and have retired to a desk job and am DYING to have my Amateur status back!!

                        Sorry for the mini-hijack...I just didn't see the need to post a new thread since my question pertained to this issue!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I believe it is one year.
                          M
                          Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from behind, or a fool from any direction

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I never understand how an internet BB takes place of a national federation.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by hoopoe View Post

                              OP you are a pro by the rules
                              That's not me. It was a hypothetical situation that I was discussing with someone. I am well within the rules.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by sar2008 View Post
                                Does anyone know what the time frame is to wait without having practiced as a professional to get your ammy status reinstated?

                                I have been a "Professional" for the past 9 years and have retired to a desk job and am DYING to have my Amateur status back!!

                                Sorry for the mini-hijack...I just didn't see the need to post a new thread since my question pertained to this issue!
                                The USEF site has a guide posted on how to get reinstated as an amateur. You do have to allow a year to pass from your last professional activity before you can apply:

                                http://www.usef.org/documents/rules/...nstatement.pdf
                                **********
                                We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                                -PaulaEdwina

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Since this has gone off on the bookkeeper/nanny/cook direction.

                                  Let's just say that Suzie Adult does the books for the barn part time - works another job full time. Suzie is paid to do the books only and that is all she does for the barn. Suzie leases a horse from the barn that she works at and pays all of it's expenses. Is Suzie a pro?
                                  My new mantra - \"Life is too short not to eat ice cream.\"
                                  ReRiders Clique

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Coreene View Post
                                    I never understand how an internet BB takes place of a national federation.
                                    Maybe cause when you call the national federation, all they keep saying is "read page ____ about it". They don't answer any questions or interpret the rules. So then you have to attend a show, see if somebody protests you & then see how the national federation rules at your hearing (what I was told to do). Then I guess you'll know if it was against the rules or not.

                                    I am not saying COTH is the end all be all of knowledge, but some posters have helped me interpret the rules so I understand them.
                                    "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by hasahorse View Post
                                      Since this has gone off on the bookkeeper/nanny/cook direction.

                                      Let's just say that Suzie Adult does the books for the barn part time - works another job full time. Suzie is paid to do the books only and that is all she does for the barn. Suzie leases a horse from the barn that she works at and pays all of it's expenses. Is Suzie a pro?
                                      See the posts above.
                                      Is she riding any horses at the barn other than the one she leases?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by hasahorse View Post
                                        Since this has gone off on the bookkeeper/nanny/cook direction.

                                        Let's just say that Suzie Adult does the books for the barn part time - works another job full time. Suzie is paid to do the books only and that is all she does for the barn. Suzie leases a horse from the barn that she works at and pays all of it's expenses. Is Suzie a pro?

                                        In this situation Susie could still be considered an amateur - although there is a grey area because the horse she is leasing could generate income for her employer.. and that's where it gets confusing. If Susie was leasing a horse from another boarder at the barn - less confusing/amateur. Unfortunately there are plenty of people who are indeed amateurs but do not meet the ammy criteria based on the rules - because of all those bad seeds who insisted on skirting the rules - making it seem ridiculous for the majority of rule-abidding competitors

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X