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Stating a proactive opinion and then locking the thread is really bad sportsmanship

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  • Stating a proactive opinion and then locking the thread is really bad sportsmanship

    Kathy, whatever your postion on any topic where there is freedom of speach there is a right to a diverse opinion.

    You make a pronouncement with no supporting evidence and then behave badly by locking the thread so your pronouncements stand alone and any difference of opinion cannot have an equal opportunity to be heard. That is not democracy and prejudicial to the case I am sure that KK would want to make.

    Whatever anyone's opinion may be it is equally justified to be heard. In autocratic governments that's not so and any forum which disagrees is shut down. This does NOT speak well to the value of your proactive stance and I certainly agree it is not advantageous to tell parents that all the parties at all the shows are loaded with drugs.

    In my 32 years of all level competition I have never seen or smelled anything that looked like drugs at any party where I was invited or even just attended. Certainly, there were no baggies full of stuff out on the tables.

    You must travel in a different circle of friends so please do not assume that any of us might have your experiences and be somewhere that drugs would be used, handled, sold or given away.

    As a grandmother if I thought this was so you can bet I wouldn't want my sweet little granddaughter anywhere near such goings on. Nor would I want her to have an unpleasant experience with a sexual offender.

    While it is a good thing that it may not be a serious charge against KK, there is no reason to "CELEBRATE" when an admitted addict was in such an environmemnt, and a confessed sexual offender of a minor child is still able to make contact with children. This is a head's up wake-up call that there is a problem and this time everyone was fortunate. The next offender might not not be as obvious.

    If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen don't turn on the stove.

    People may wish to feel that IF what you say is true and isn't just hearsay that it really doesn't change the situation at all as to the past; and they are entitled not to be called names or be publicly castigated by you or anyone else. And, I assume you meant lynching party and not lunching party. I did not see or read any evidence of anyone starting a "lynching" party. I saw a dialog between concerned people as to how to deal with such things in the future.

    Parents in this case have to also be considered and their concerns are not addressed by the Release of KK.

    Battle Scarred Veteran

    [This message was edited by Snowbird on Feb. 21, 2004 at 08:26 AM.]
    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org
  • Original Poster

    #2
    Kathy, whatever your postion on any topic where there is freedom of speach there is a right to a diverse opinion.

    You make a pronouncement with no supporting evidence and then behave badly by locking the thread so your pronouncements stand alone and any difference of opinion cannot have an equal opportunity to be heard. That is not democracy and prejudicial to the case I am sure that KK would want to make.

    Whatever anyone's opinion may be it is equally justified to be heard. In autocratic governments that's not so and any forum which disagrees is shut down. This does NOT speak well to the value of your proactive stance and I certainly agree it is not advantageous to tell parents that all the parties at all the shows are loaded with drugs.

    In my 32 years of all level competition I have never seen or smelled anything that looked like drugs at any party where I was invited or even just attended. Certainly, there were no baggies full of stuff out on the tables.

    You must travel in a different circle of friends so please do not assume that any of us might have your experiences and be somewhere that drugs would be used, handled, sold or given away.

    As a grandmother if I thought this was so you can bet I wouldn't want my sweet little granddaughter anywhere near such goings on. Nor would I want her to have an unpleasant experience with a sexual offender.

    While it is a good thing that it may not be a serious charge against KK, there is no reason to "CELEBRATE" when an admitted addict was in such an environmemnt, and a confessed sexual offender of a minor child is still able to make contact with children. This is a head's up wake-up call that there is a problem and this time everyone was fortunate. The next offender might not not be as obvious.

    If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen don't turn on the stove.

    People may wish to feel that IF what you say is true and isn't just hearsay that it really doesn't change the situation at all as to the past; and they are entitled not to be called names or be publicly castigated by you or anyone else. And, I assume you meant lynching party and not lunching party. I did not see or read any evidence of anyone starting a "lynching" party. I saw a dialog between concerned people as to how to deal with such things in the future.

    Parents in this case have to also be considered and their concerns are not addressed by the Release of KK.

    Battle Scarred Veteran

    [This message was edited by Snowbird on Feb. 21, 2004 at 08:26 AM.]
    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

    Comment


    • #3
      I have to say the "no charges" comment completely surprised me. If the drugs really weren't KK's, then good for him that he's off scott-free. I know someone who was arrested and charged because police found a straw with coccaine residue in his shared apartment. They didn't care that he said it wasn't his, that he just lived there. That's very trusting of that Florida police department, they aren't usually so lenient when dealing with someone on probation, or with priors.

      www.coolmeadows.net
      Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

      Comment


      • #4
        Coolmeadows...

        Only time will tell if Mr. Kraus is, indeed, off scot-free. His arrest surely raised several antennae both within and outside of the horseshow community, and it will be interesting to see if he is invited back to WEF (or any of the major venues, for that matter.) It seems that a lot more people are now aware of KK's past, which can't be a good thing. And methinks Mason Phelps would prefer not to take a chance of again facing the press to explain Stadium Jumping's hiring policies.

        I won't attempt to predict the reaction from the owners of the web site...they've acted as apologists so far and will probably continue to do so.

        So maybe someone could give KK's probabtion officer a subscription to Towerheads?

        Comment


        • #5
          That thread did not serve the purpose she intended - she should have locked it because it totally got out of contol early on.

          I think discussions on the topic are good - I just don't think we should be discussing ANY individual like this on this forum. I think it is up to the "system" and we are not "insiders" and don't know all the facts. It's like reading the Enquirer lately.

          All the posters get so emotional and go off on tangents and can't seem to keep it together.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Ken is home tonight, released on his own recognizance that measn NO BAIL was needed. There were "no findings" and therefore there were absolutely no "charges" as it relates to some of the BB posts. He was in a dwelling where there were illegal drugs....not his. After their investigation Ken was released with NO CHARGES!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            If someone is cleared I don't think they are released in their own recognisance, I think they are just "free to go". The issue of Bail would not come up for someone who was cleared.

            This is simply hearsay at this point and undocumented. If the hearing was postponed, there would be no findings or charges and that would not mean vindication.

            There is certainly the issue of supervised probation and access to minors. And, it would be pretty rare that the police would be at the wrong address and not where he actually listed his residence. I'm not knowledgeable about possession but from what we've been told it doesn't clear the case because it's not yours and someone left it in your home or there was a party.

            The pity would be that if he did get off and he didn't get treatment for his problems and was still in the same corrupt environment as described by Khobstetter where everyone has drugs at every party.

            Battle Scarred Veteran
            http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

            Comment


            • #7
              being released ROR does NOT mean a person is "off"---it means "we will get together later kids and discuss this, but for now, we are gonna let ya go home without mortgaging your home---but make sure you are somewhere we can get a hold of ya and be sure you are here at such and such time on such and such date"

              i echo CM in the fact that wow, it was SOMEONE ELSES so its all over---anyone ever watch cops? MAYBE 1 out of 10 will say, "uh yeah its mine" most of the time its "ITS NOT MINE I SWEAR!" why was i flipping out when my roommate was stashing weed in her closet? well, not only because i was diappointed in her, but in the event the police were ever here and it was found, especially if she happened to not be here, like say she was in, oh in jamaica like she was last time when her kid discovered it, i am sure the police would say "oh ok molly, we will just chat with her when she gets home--you continue your posting on COTH and have a nice day"

              methinks i would be getting an inside tour of jail and charged with possession.

              now, if it in fact IS/WAS not his, and someone stepped forward and said "hey thats mine"--well wow, thats a pretty cool using person. however, beings that i am a recovering addict myself, i do not know a whole bunch of users that would do such a thing, but perhaps there are one or two of them out there.

              so the moral of my story is, i am gonna wait until i see charges dismissed linked with his name instead of ROR before declaring he is "off"

              just MHO

              molly
              *member of just about every clique*
              http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971

              www.oasisequestrian.com
              Co-founder of White Trash Dressage (WTD)
              http://www.lulu.com/mavw1971
              also available on Amazon.com
              http://www.cafepress.com/wtdressage

              Comment


              • #8
                Snowbird..

                bitsy is right...I posted the information I got regarding Ken and his release. I ASSUMED after Erin had to lock the other thread that there would at least be a discussion and NOT a personal attack and set of pot shots...

                But I was sadly very wrong...therefore I closed the thread after having a time figuring out how to do that.

                Your length ramblings and personal attempts to look like a Saint at my expense will not get a rise out of me this morning....I will not respond to another of your lengthy tirates on how perfect you are and all the rest of us are not..

                So have a wonderful Saturday there in the East, I am having a GREAT cup of coffee in my yard as I get ready to go to a wonderful business with lots of clients who adore me and the way I function..

                Thanks for your opinion BUT I wouldn't trade my stance on the American way for anything..especially not for one of your ramblings..

                I closed it because this BB has gotten a bit crazed lately and at time we don't "discuss" or "opin"..

                In this case also...as YOU say..I would think I was entitled to post information WITHOUT being personally attacked...it was a thread for information and all of a sudden right off the bat Heidi got personal....so I closed the thread...and now HERE YOU ARE...

                wowowowowowowowowowowowow

                http://www.foxpointefarm.com
                http://www.go-sho.org
                [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's opine....... one of my favorite words.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I knew I shouldnt opin this thread, but now that I'm here...

                    If you wanted to make your point you should have left the original thread opin. Heidi was putting words in your mouth.

                    Edited to add - Erin can probably unlock it if you ask her nicely, which I think you should.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      YOU GO KHOBSTETTER, You are very right about your opinion, that is what AMERICA is about. Sometimes it doesn't pay to be NICE. Do have a GREAT day!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Electric Tape..
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If you wanted to make your point you should have left the original thread opin. Heidi was putting words in your mouth. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Didn't really want to "make a point", just wanted to pass along information..I really did NOT want another thread like the other one was and it looked EARLY on like that was about to happen ..so I closed it...maybe should have left it open/maybe should have not have..BUT it was late and I didn't want another fighting thread on the BB.

                        I knew Heidi was putting words in my mouth and I just knew it would spark another awful thread..not my intent.

                        HEY..thanks for "opine"..never did know how to spell that word and was afraid someone would accuse me of using the trees name in vain.."got it "pine"..hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

                        THANKS....

                        http://www.foxpointefarm.com
                        http://www.go-sho.org
                        [url]http://www.horseshowbiz.com
                        [url]http://www.ijumpsports.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What's that old saying - you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas?

                          Sorry Kathy - your sweeping generalization about drugs/etc. at parties is just that. And from my perspective if you walk in and it's there - YOU WALK OUT!

                          If it's as bad as you say "around the horse world" then why aren't you taking this matter to the USAE and asking for some "clean up"?

                          Stating "well this is the way it is"...is IMHO an incomplete concept for a responsible adult without addressing - "here's what we need to do to change it".
                          Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                          "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            In response to the email you sent me privately you will have to play your games by yourself, I'm not interested. It's hardly a challenge or a debate.

                            As to being a Saint at your expense..please explain how this is possible. Do you have the authority to award sainthood? Or are you the saint and I'm trying to take it away from you?

                            If it's the first then God Bless You! and if it's the latter I would never deprive you of your sainthood.

                            Battle Scarred Veteran
                            http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hear, hear, Snowbird.

                              I've ridden in seven different countries and with many different trainers, and I would very much like to think that I've seen a broad cross-section of that very diverse place we call the horse world. That being said, I too would like to emphasize that based on what I have seen, I would never venture to say that drugs are the norm at any party, dinner, or gathering. I've been to a good number of each of these, and not once have I caught the slightest indication that drugs were present anywhere. I won't delude myself and say that it never happens, but it certainly hasn't happened around me yet. Given that so many are professing the same, I have my doubts that drug use at parties, etc. is as rampant among the horsey set as some seem to believe.

                              Cheers,
                              Susie
                              http://www.kachoom.com

                              "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!" ~Homer Simpson
                              "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!" ~Homer Simpson

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Many of us are somewhat shocked as to the latest turn of events.

                                I am very sure that there is a good explaination for the actions of the Sheriff's Office. Hopefully it will become to light in the very near future.

                                Do I see a book deal in the near future?
                                "The best thing for the inside of a man is the outside of a horse" Lord Palmerston

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Party Rose I would suggest you wait and see, I am certain there will be some positive information and I think it is unlikely that No Charges were filed.

                                  What we have is the optimistic interpretation of second hand hearsay.

                                  Battle Scarred Veteran
                                  http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Drugs are illegal. If you know someone is doing drugs, or are sharing a house with someone who does drugs, etc, and you do not report it to the police, you are ALLOWING this illegal activity to go on.

                                    I am glad that Ken is out, and I am hoping he was/is not involved in drugs. But I am still skeptical of his judgment of character if he is closely associated with people who are involved with drugs.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      So, if, according to some, drugs are widely used and available in the horse world, at parties, shows, barns, et al, what is the trainer's obligation to the parents of the juniors in their care?

                                      While some parents are actively involved in their children's riding career, attending shows, supervising their activities, I imagine that a greater number just write the check and drive their kids to the airport. So, to these less-involved horse parents, do you feel the trainer has an obligation to disclose these illegal activities, to warn parents to what their children may be exposed?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        As the one who originally responded to KHobstetter's post - I stand by my original position.

                                        Khobstetter - I think it is admirable that you have stood by your friend - KK probably needs all the help and support he can get right now. But perhaps a better way of supporting him would be working as his counselor, pastor, whatever...and not supporting his participation in an industry that is filled with children.

                                        I for one, would not send my kids to train with the GP rider I "dated" when I was 16. Nor would I send my horses to PV although he is the best trainer I have ever ridden with. And although Khobstetter from what I have seen and heard has lovely horses and is an excellent trainer, and I think her work as a foster mom is truly amazing, I would not send my kids to ride with her either, as she has announced very publically that she can forgive this sex offender and support his continued participation in our sport.
                                        Ristra Ranch Equestrian Jewelry

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