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Arabians in the Hunter world

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
    Breed shows, endurance, dressage (I'm talking amateurs at the lower levels, primarily,though there are several doing upper level stuff). Lots of pleasure riders. I sometimes foxhunt with mine, though not recently, as I haven't had time to get horse and self fit enough.

    According to a study done by the breed association a few years back, only ~5% of Arab owners show.
    Actually it's more like 15% IIRC.

    No, arabians are not sought out to be hunters. Whenever the question is "Can _______ be hunters?" the answer is ALWAYS: If it can lay down the trip in the same manner as the TBs, WBs, and other horses entered in the class then yes. Most can't as they're not generally bred for it but some have the talent and most of those horses show at the arab shows in the working hunter or hunter hack divisions that are sometimes offered. The quality at the national level (SHNs) particularly is actually quite good, but probably not yet on caliber with Devon, Upperville, HITS type of shows.

    Arab blood is frequently found, though, in many of the ponies and jumpers (particularly through French/Anglo Arabs/Selle Francais).

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    • #22
      My friend has a nice little Arab that wins a lot in the hunter divisions at Arab shows. He also does well in Arab dressage - so they took him to an open dressage show ('B' circuit) last weekend and he was champion in his division If the horse has a nice rhythm, why not market him for dressage?

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      • #23
        I've been a hunter rider from the start, but my first pony was sold to us as "half arab". Later on we found out she was FULL arab I wouldn't have changed it for the world! Here she is....not the cutest pony, but did her job well and always won the hacks. Of course, she didn't have the typical arab head/tail/hollowed back. She's also the dam of a famous small.

        http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...9DWWihl_ph.jpg

        Heres a half arab I rode for a while....wonderful pony

        http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...gjazztrot1.jpg

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        • #24
          Very nice horses.

          Many arab bred hunters are competing at the USEF shows, but no one knows it because the owners hide the breeding due to the negative stereotype (like the earlier comment about arabs being hollow backed. Only poorly trained ones are, just like any other breed of horse would be). I guess its never occurred to the hunter world that the reason these horses are good is because of their arab breeding.

          For a little education, check out the success of the anglo arabian breed from this site that shows them competing in hunters, jumpers, eventing, etc.

          www.anglo-arabians.com




          Originally posted by Mirakel View Post
          I've been a hunter rider from the start, but my first pony was sold to us as "half arab". Later on we found out she was FULL arab I wouldn't have changed it for the world! Here she is....not the cutest pony, but did her job well and always won the hacks. Of course, she didn't have the typical arab head/tail/hollowed back. She's also the dam of a famous small.

          http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...9DWWihl_ph.jpg

          Heres a half arab I rode for a while....wonderful pony

          http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...gjazztrot1.jpg
          The Inverted Y
          Thoroughbred and Anglo Arabian Sporthorses
          2005 and 2007 USEF Breeder of the Year.
          www.allanglos.net

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          • #25


            Here we go again.
            "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
            -George Morris

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Dazednconfused View Post
              Most can't as they're not generally bred for it but some have the talent and most of those horses show at the arab shows in the working hunter or hunter hack divisions that are sometimes offered. The quality at the national level (SHNs) particularly is actually quite good, but probably not yet on caliber with Devon, Upperville, HITS type of shows.
              I politely disagree. I've seen what wins and pins U/S and O/F at Sport Horse Nationals and those horses would not get a ribbon, even at a smaller "A" show, unless they are at the bottom of a small class. Although Arabs can be rather cute with their knees over fences, they still jump flat and often lay on their side over the bigger fences. They also do not have the stride to lope down the lines. The "A" shows are much more completive than even ten years ago and warmbloods are currently dominating the scene. I'm not saying the judging is right or wrong, but that is the way it is.

              The last few years, it seems like the market has tanked in the Arab world. We have a regional sale horse magazine and quality Arabs with excellent pedigrees that are going well under saddle bringing $1,000-$2,500. It’s very sad.
              #JusticeForSunshine

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              • #27
                Originally posted by LockeMeadows View Post
                I politely disagree. I've seen what wins and pins U/S and O/F at Sport Horse Nationals and those horses would not get a ribbon, even at a smaller "A" show, unless they are at the bottom of a small class. Although Arabs can be rather cute with their knees over fences, they still jump flat and often lay on their side over the bigger fences. They also do not have the stride to lope down the lines. The "A" shows are much more completive than even ten years ago and warmbloods are currently dominating the scene. I'm not saying the judging is right or wrong, but that is the way it is.

                The last few years, it seems like the market has tanked in the Arab world. We have a regional sale horse magazine and quality Arabs with excellent pedigrees that are going well under saddle bringing $1,000-$2,500. It’s very sad.
                Did you misread my post, I'm agreeing with you...

                The quality of trips at the National level is considerably higher quality than the class A or local level but probably generally is *NOT* on the caliber of Uppervill, Devon, or HITS...

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                • #28
                  FWIW, I've had 2 half Arabs in my barn: back in the 80's, I bought a young unbroken Arab x QH pony for my daughter. That pony was broke and showing in 2 months, and did well on the A-circuit for 2 years, after which we sold her to Jack Towell, who's once told me she was " one of the the best things that ever happened to our family." Both his sons got their starts on that pony, who's constantly leased out to children needing a packer to develop confidence. As others have suggested, nobody wanted to believe that pony was half Arab, preferring to assume she was Welsh-- although I presume that everyone knows that there's a lot of Arab in Welsh ponies (not to mention WB's), with some breeders continuing to infuse it, too.

                  Our other half-Arab was a pasture accident out of a big TB mare. Because her owner was frightened by her size (16.2h) and neglected her care so her feet were in terrible condition, one of my boarders was able to buy her for $1800 as a green-broke 3 year old. I rode her in a few h/j classes flat classes at a local show soon after she arrived here (stlll a 3 year old), and she won all of them. Although her owner is strictly interested in dressage, I've also popped her over a few fences and found her willing and completely safe. My guess is that she could have made a very decent hunter: she's a lovely mover, has the right attitude-- and carries her tail like a "normal" horse. Dressage training has pretty much eliminated any suggestion of hollowness she ever had.

                  Clearly, IMO, it all depends on the individual.
                  http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

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                  • #29
                    Dazed: I think we were under the impression that you meant they could still compete well at many "A" shows, just not the REALLY big "A" and "AA" shows - which we suggest that they won't.

                    I find it humourous that I'm not the only one who has a very nice pony who has a small amount of Arab blood that I don't admit to. It's a registered 1/2 Welsh who has 3/4 Welsh blood and we soooooooooo don't own up to that other 1/4 of it's heritage! In the ponies a lot of times the Arab lends well to the "Welshiness" of a pony and doesn't hurt in the same way it does for the horses.

                    I really think Mirakel's ponies are cute!

                    Oh, and my first pony was a Welsh-Arab cross and he REALLY was!
                    ...for there are wings on these hooves, the speed and power of foam-capped waves...
                    *~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*
                    Proud member of the artists clique

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      OPs question was about a PUREBRED though. Not a cross and not about the influence of Arabian crosses on various breeds.

                      And the answer is NO, Hunter people who show the big rateds do not want any kind of horse who cannot get the lines and go long and low. If Arabs could do that, they would want them. 99.99% cannot so they don't want them.

                      Therefore, marketing a Purebred Arab to show Hunter buyers would be a waste of time.
                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                      • #31
                        Love em or hate em

                        no matter what you feel about arabs, they have a huge influence on many breeds. But alas, hunter classes, other than breed shows, are not for most arabs. I have an arab and love her to death. Smartest filly ever! But she is definitely headed for the endurance world. Arabs with a Polish influence have done well in the reining classes. The compact bulky ones are giving the quarter horses a run for their money. And of course, dressage has some potential as well. Good luck!

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by fish View Post
                          I rode her in a few h/j classes flat classes at a local show soon after she arrived here (stlll a 3 year old), and she won all of them.

                          Clearly, IMO, it all depends on the individual.
                          Well, yes. You must judge every horse individually, but...

                          Are you really comparing wins at a local show to being competitive at A shows?

                          I suppose it depends on your definition of local...'cause Devon is local to some, but if it's the normal definition of local...a lot of horses can win there that would never even be looked at at an A. It's comparing apples to oranges.

                          And yes, a lot of ponies have arab in them and it is more acceptable for them to have it as long as they don't GO like an Arab which tell you something. The stereotypical Arab is not wanted in the hunter ring. I would venture to guess that because ponies jump a larger percentage of their height...and usually have to make more of an effort than the horses, some of the Arabness is lost in the effort. ( Just like if horses jumped 4'6" )

                          If you've got some horse that is purebred (or even part) and it goes around like a hunter, great. If it let's you know it's an Arab, not so great.
                          Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                          Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

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                          • #33
                            IME, the Arabs that do well in the hunter world are the ones that you wouldn't guess are Arab--they don't have the look typical to the breed. There's a full Arab that competes at our little shows in the 18-inch divisions with his teeny-tiny rider and I just adore him. He's the safest, most cheerful saint of a horse I've ever seen. I thought that he was a small TB or a QH/Arab cross, but he's all Arab (I don't know his breeding, but due to his build, I'd guess Polish).

                            I have a friend who is convinced that her Anglo-Arab mare, crossed on Welsh stallions, will be the foundation of her A pony hunter breeding program. She may be right, but the foals I've seen out of the mare have way too many Arab characteristics to be truly competitive (high head and tail set, a little too much knee action, short stride). I tried to broach this to her, trying to point her more in the direction of the warmblood ponies or full Welsh, but she definitely didn't want to hear it. [shrug]
                            Life would be infinitely better if pinatas suddenly appeared throughout the day.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Sing Mia Song View Post
                              I have a friend who is convinced that her Anglo-Arab mare, crossed on Welsh stallions, will be the foundation of her A pony hunter breeding program. She may be right, but the foals I've seen out of the mare have way too many Arab characteristics to be truly competitive (high head and tail set, a little too much knee action, short stride). I tried to broach this to her, trying to point her more in the direction of the warmblood ponies or full Welsh, but she definitely didn't want to hear it. [shrug]
                              Well, you see, that way she can always complain that nobody will buy them because they are Arab type and she can just say the judge was biased against Arab types and give herself an easy excuse. Forget the high head, too much knee action and short stride so they can't make the lines-they just don't like Arabs.

                              If they go long and low and can get the lines, nobody cares what they are.
                              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by allanglos View Post
                                Many arab bred hunters are competing at the USEF shows, but no one knows it because the owners hide the breeding due to the negative stereotype (like the earlier comment about arabs being hollow backed. Only poorly trained ones are, just like any other breed of horse would be). I guess its never occurred to the hunter world that the reason these horses are good is because of their arab breeding.
                                Um, not really. To be quite honest, I don't know of a single HORSE competing at the AA level that has Arab breeding - open or hidden. There are some ponies. Arab characteristics are counter to traditional hunter criteria, so your last sentence doesn't make sense.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  My purebred Arabian gelding kicked butt for many years at all levels in hunters. He was capable of going long and low and making the distances. Here's a photo

                                  http://www.starstruckfarms.com/Images/sohnjump2.jpg

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    OK, I have a purebred Arab that I plan on doing some eventing with and his first event is this weekend. He does not have a short stride and as a matter of fact, he makes most distances rather easily. He also is a nice, flat knee mover. I also plan on doing some jumper stuff with him but I know he is NOT hunter material. So maybe you can help your friend market this Arab as an event mount or for the jumpers....
                                    (I really don't care to argue the point if Arabs are good hunters or not. There is good and bad of every breed. However, I do take a lot of kidding from my non-Arab friends that do compete at the bigger A shows but oh well. I didn't buy him to show at the A shows.)
                                    "Gallop as if you were to die tomorrow, jump as if you were to live forever."

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by pegasus44 View Post
                                      My purebred Arabian gelding kicked butt for many years at all levels in hunters. He was capable of going long and low and making the distances. Here's a photo

                                      http://www.starstruckfarms.com/Images/sohnjump2.jpg
                                      he's very cute!
                                      "A canter is the cure for every evil."

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        [QUOTE=RugBug;2497566]Well, yes. You must judge every horse individually, but...

                                        Are you really comparing wins at a local show to being competitive at A shows?

                                        /QUOTE]

                                        Since when?? All I did was report on my experience with the 2 half Arabs I've had here: One went to the A shows and did very well. The other only did a couple local h/j shows before specializing in dressage because that's what her owner desired. Period. I wasn't comparing anything, merely reporting that neither of these horses demonstrated any features that would have disqualified them from doing well on the A circuit. I've seen a lot of Arabs and Arab crosses who do conform to the head up/tail up stereotype which is justifiably unwelcome in the hunter (or dressage) ring. Happily these 2 are not among them.

                                        I've been in this business for over 40 years and certainly know the difference between local shows and the A circuit. Give me a break-- or has snarkiness become a requirement for posting on these boards?

                                        P.S. Back in the late 80's, early 90's, my now-veterinarian showed a black Arab pony mare in the junior jumpers (A circuit). His father bred that mare to his Selle Francais stallion and she produced a colt who was also fairly successful in the jumpers-- and an approved Selle Francais stallion. There ARE Arabs out there who can jump-- and there is also plenty of Arab blood in a lot of the WB's so popular these days in the H/J arena-- it's not just in the ponies.
                                        http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Here's a purebred large pony I had too - looks like a hunter to me....

                                          http://www.starstruckfarms.com/Images/sabrajump.jpg

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