• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

As a buyer would you hold it against a horse on trial if ...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • As a buyer would you hold it against a horse on trial if ...

    So yes I changed my name and small details in case someone on the buyer’s side recognizes the scenario.

    Here's the deal, horse went on trial and days 1, 2, 3, 4 horse was good day 4 was up slightly. Day 5 went bananas and took off with rider.

    When I asked some questions, it came out that the horse hasn't been out in 5 days it has been on trial. This horse is used to a lot of turn out and I told them that.

    Is it legit to hold this against the horse?

  • #2
    I'd be more likely to hold it against the seller or the seller's agent who neglected to mention that the horse needs daily turnout. It's not necessarily a "given" in every program, especially for a sale horse.
    Please don't sabotash my conchess.

    Comment


    • #3
      If lots of turnout doesn't fit their management program, he may not be the right horse for them (and they aren't the right home for the horse). It would certainly be a legitimate reason to pass on the horse.
      According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.

      Comment


      • #4
        Are you serious? I don't think that I know any horse that goes well being in 24 hrs a day and for 5 days.

        I said that he gets a lot of turn out and they have plenty of turn out and it is not a problem.

        And, since when do you need to tell someone that daily turnout is required? Isn't that basic horse 101? I mean come on.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Incognito123 View Post
          Are you serious? I don't think that I know any horse that goes well being in 24 hrs a day and for 5 days.

          I said that he gets a lot of turn out and they have plenty of turn out and it is not a problem.

          And, since when do you need to tell someone that daily turnout is required? Isn't that basic horse 101? I mean come on.
          No it isn't "basic horse 101"

          --First off some people are uneducated.
          --Second, not everyone has access to tons of pasture (think highly populated areas)...this has been discussed frequently.
          --Third, horse show situation. Horses are frequently stalled with no turnout whatsoever for 5 days (or more). Horse gets ridden/shown and right back in the stall. Horses may get handwalked or lunged frequently but there's not a whole lot of turnout at horse shows (and when there is any it's expensive).

          And finally, with a horse on trial, some people (buyer or seller) don't want to run the risk of the horse injuring itself out in pasture. When I took a horse on trial private turnout was required. If potential buyer had no access to private turnout they would be inclined to keep it stalled rather than turn it out in a group situation where it would run the risk of being injured.

          Comment


          • #6
            If you were up front about what the horse's needs are, then it should not be held against the horse. If you didn't specify that the horse *must* have daily turnout in your trial agreement, then it is a bit more iffy. Frequently, when horses are on trial, they may get very minimal or no turnout for fear of injury, but they do get ridden and/or lunged every day of the trial.

            I personally am sure to ask people when they inquire about a horse what their turnout situation is like, as some horses just do not do well without regular extended turnout, and I tell all potential buyers what each horse's current turnout schedule is.

            I don't let horses go on trial, but I do write into their sales contract what their turnout routine was while they were here (i.e., 12 hours individual turnout, 24 hours group turnout, etc). When I leased a horse, it was written into the contract that the horse had to have daily individual turnout for a minimum of 2 hours per day.

            Unfortunately, in today's world, you need to specify everything you can.
            Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles

            Comment


            • #7
              Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but....

              In my ongoing horse-search, I have taken a couple of horses for a day of try-out, in order to ride them with my coach in a lesson-type situation. I have them for the day to get to know them a bit, groom, tack up, etc. to see if a longer trial is warranted.
              During that time, I am responsible for them, and you better believe that I watch them like a hawk, keep them in a very nice, deeply bedded stall with 2 buckets of clean water, do not allow them to even venture into the small attached paddock and in general take any other precautions possible to make sure nothing happens to them while on my watch.
              I do not advocate a "no-turn-out-ever" policy for a horse once it becomes mine (that is cruel and unusual), but until then, I would not want to risk it getting hurt out playing and bucking, which can happen very easily, as you know.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Incognito123 View Post
                Are you serious? I don't think that I know any horse that goes well being in 24 hrs a day and for 5 days.

                I said that he gets a lot of turn out and they have plenty of turn out and it is not a problem.

                And, since when do you need to tell someone that daily turnout is required? Isn't that basic horse 101? I mean come on.
                Well, if you want to be nasty about it... YOU asked for opinions.

                As a buyer, I would certainly evaluate the horse now with the knowledge that he gets wound up with no turn out in five days. If I didn't think I could provide a program that worked for him or that I didn't want to deal with a horse that would be high enough to take off if he didn't get the proper amount of turn-out, I would have no qualms passing and telling the owner/seller exactly why.

                Also, unless I had a specific written agreement with the seller that I would not be responsible for any injuries incurred while in turn-out under my care, I would not turn a trial horse out.

                BTW, in CA, daily turn-out is NOT common. If it is, it's 30 minutes to an hour in small paddock, hardly enough to take or keep the edge off. I bought a new horse in July, and while I try to get him out once or twice a week, I have a hard time with it for a number of reasons (turn-outs might be full, can't find an appropriate buddy for him (he runs without a buddy and will play hard with the wrong one)). He hasn't been out for about 3 weeks now and he's still just fine when ridden. I made sure when shopping that the horse could tolerate the program I would be able to provide.
                Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  It is also the case that, in many areas of the country, people aren't turning out at the moment due to insanely cold temps, lots of snow, and rain. It isn't unusual for horses to stay in for several days in a row in the winter due to weather or extreme mud in the pastures. Mine is generally out about 8-12 hours a day, but in weather like we've been having, he gets kept inside. And, yes, sometimes it will be as long as five days. Lousy, but I don't control the weather, sad to say.

                  As SkipChange said, in a show situation the horse may not get turnout. Many horses in the world do just fine on limited/no turnout. If the horse you are selling does not fit the management program of the barn trying him, then it is completely legitimate for them to pass on the horse. Why in the world would you want him to stay at a place that doesn't appear to be a good fit?
                  According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SkipChange View Post
                    No it isn't "basic horse 101"


                    --Third, horse show situation. Horses are frequently stalled with no turnout whatsoever for 5 days (or more). Horse gets ridden/shown and right back in the stall. Horses may get handwalked or lunged frequently but there's not a whole lot of turnout at horse shows (and when there is any it's expensive).
                    True, what happens if they buy this horse and by Sunday of every week the horse wigs out? Something I would like to know in advance

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      They can do induvidual turn out and they did not even lunge him before riding. I am not selling a horse that would be doing 5 day A rated shows. It takes a very specific horse that can handle no turnout for 5 days.

                      I feel like they were setting him for failure. That's a thought, maybe they were.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Incognito123 View Post
                        I feel like they were setting him for failure. That's a thought, maybe they were.
                        Paranoid much?
                        According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Each horse as their own personality and some require more turnout than others.

                          If these people do not have a turnout schedule that fits the horse's needs, then it may not be the best fit for them.

                          Also, while he is on trial, the barn owner of where he is may not want to turn a horse out in her fields that may be gone a week, only there long enough to mess up the herd dynamics.

                          It is a tricky situation, but it is up to the buyer.

                          A friend once had a horse returned because he was perfect in every way except he was never taught to lunge. At least that's the story the potential buyer told...go figure. Buyer's want what they want and it is their right to turn a horse down for whatever reason. After that horse came back, the sellers were honest and stated that the horse came back because he did not know how to lunge. They got a lot of sympathy from other sellers and buyers that the whole lunging thins was kind of silly. The horse sold to someone else a few weeks later.

                          No matter the reason, it is better that the buyers send back something that is not 'perfect' for them, rather than 'be stuck' with a horse they do not like as much.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I guess I am of the mind that horses are not robots and horses need turnout. I am in an area and so are the buyers that has ample turnout and is very common for horses to go outside. I don't think that is healthy for horses to not get turned out.

                            Also, they plenty of fields for individual turnout.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Incognito123 View Post
                              They can do induvidual turn out and they did not even lunge him before riding. I am not selling a horse that would be doing 5 day A rated shows. It takes a very specific horse that can handle no turnout for 5 days.

                              I feel like they were setting him for failure. That's a thought, maybe they were.
                              Well did you discuss the terms of the trial and stipulate turnout? Never assume that people are smart or educated. No turnout on trial horses is standard operating procedure for some and not for others.

                              There is nothing wrong with you wanting the horse in full, daily turnout. I like my horses with 12+ hours of turnout a day. The key step would be telling the client what kind of program they need to have the horse in while on trial and making sure they will provide the care (i.e. turnout) that the horse needs.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Incognito123 View Post
                                I guess I am of the mind that horses are not robots and horses need turnout. I am in an area and so are the buyers that has ample turnout and is very common for horses to go outside. I don't think that is healthy for horses to not get turned out.

                                Also, they plenty of fields for individual turnout.
                                That's all well and good, but there are still many reasons NOt to turn a horse out while on trial and there are many reasons to not want to purchase a horse that can't handle being inside for 5 days.

                                Originally posted by Incognito123
                                It takes a very specific horse that can handle no turnout for 5 days.

                                I feel like they were setting him for failure. That's a thought, maybe they were.
                                BOTH of my horses (WB and TB), even the super spooky, sensitive one (WB) have been fine with no turn-out. It's not really a 'special horse' that can handle no turn-out for five days. In fact, we have a barn full of them as do many people in Calfornia.

                                Changing a program can be difficult on a horse, but again, as I buyer I'd rather see how the horse would handle the situation so that the first time it's in for a week because of an abscess I don't get on expecting a different temperament. If a horse can go without turn-out and keep it together, it will get bonus points. Your's obviously can't, so no bonus points and it could be enough of a negative that I would pass on the horse altogether.

                                Why would you be upset that someone who is "setting the horse up for failure" doesn't want it?

                                Someone is a little ridiculous in this situation...and it's not the buyer.
                                Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Incognito123 View Post
                                  I guess I am of the mind that horses are not robots and horses need turnout. I am in an area and so are the buyers that has ample turnout and is very common for horses to go outside. I don't think that is healthy for horses to not get turned out.

                                  Also, they plenty of fields for individual turnout.
                                  I guess I'm the only one that is with you on this. When ever I took a horse on trial in the past, we turned them out. We always cleared it with the owner first, to let them know, that our barn operated on a 12 hour-in/12-out schedule. Never had a seller who had a problem with it.
                                  There's coffee in that nebula.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Turnout or not, if a horse bolted with me while on trial, I'd pass. Life's too short to deal with things that make me feel like I'm having a heart attack!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Depends on the rider and situation.

                                      Will horse have regular turnout if bought?
                                      Can the rider handle occasional misbehavior, or is it going to be damaging to his/her confidence?
                                      How badly did he bolt? A few strides or several laps? Was he responsive at all or just completely wacko? Any bucking or just running?


                                      I wouldn't completely discount the horse, but you need to take it into consideration.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I think that the buyers have every reason to pass if the horse took off with them like that from just no turnout. Do I know lots of horses that don't handle being in a stall? Yes, but I also know lots of horses that can handle being in, they may be fresher and may spook some but they are not out of control. I do think most people do keep up horses on trial or they get some turn out in the ring for awhile while they are watched.

                                        Think for a minute what if they had turned out the horse and it go hurt? Would you be upset they turned the horse out?

                                        Hindsight it always 20/20 if they don't want the horse they don't want it. Good Luck.
                                        http://community.webshots.com/user/jenn52318

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X