• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Free Lease Vent

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Free Lease Vent

    Lots of people told me that free leasing my horse was a mistake and now I've got to say they were probably right. So for all of you out there considering a free lease situation, please let me share a cautionary tale. I think that even a small, token lease payment should at least help the lessee appreciate the value of the horse they are leasing.

    Last spring I leased out my 14 year-old TB gelding. He had raced with 40 starts but had had a few years as a pasture puff before I bought him when he was 12. Though he had never jumped before he took to it quickly and within nine months was cantering 3' courses with changes, and he brought home a tri-color nearly every time out, including at some local rated shows. My goal at that time for the 2009 season was to show him in the 3' AA division with the intention of perhaps moving up to the A/Os by the end of the summer.

    Then last winter I had a great opportunity to buy a fancy young horse to bring along and at the same time I was limited in my ability to show by both family and financial circumstances. Since I was quite attached to my gelding and had always intended to provide him with a forever home and as I also hoped that my oldest son would be ready for him within a couple of years, I felt that a lease was a good option. Unfortunately where I live the mindset of most people is that a lease means "free lease". At that time a girl at my barn was looking to move up to the children's hunters but was having trouble selling her large pony. She's a good, confident rider and seemed eager to show as much as possible during her last two junior years, so I thought they would be a good match. Plus since she's at my barn I could keep an eye on him.

    To try to make a long story short, she gradually lost interest in my horse, riding him less and less. He's a good guy but like many TBs he needs regular work. To make matters worse, when she did show him she would do up to 13 or 14 jumping classes over a weekend, and this on a horse who was not being properly conditioned.

    Now they are ready to end the lease, and I'm about to get back a horse who will need a lot of work to get him back to where he was. I probably could have sold him last spring for a good price or even found someone off-farm to lease him for a fee but now he's a year older and is not a horse for a novice rider looking for a packer to carry them around a 3' course, which would seem to be the best market for a horse that age.

    Sorry for the novella. I'm just really frustrated at the moment. Though I'd love nothing more than having two horses to ride, I can hardly handle one as it is, both in terms of time and money. I knew I was taking a risk but I had hoped they would act in better faith.

  • #2
    Even free leased horses should go with a signed contract that covers things such as how many classes/show they can do and at what heights. That's always a bummer but I have to ask: If she was in your barn and you were aware of what was happening why didn't you talk to her about your concerns?

    Comment


    • #3
      I have to sort of agree with WorththeWait95...the horse was in the same barn so you could keep an eye on him. If you saw they weren't riding him enough, why didn't you speak up? If you saw they were over showing him, why didn't you speak up?

      I hate to say it--but some people see leases as something to be used & returned. Even if they do pay a lease fee. They want their money's worth. They aren't necessarily concerned about the long term well being since they are only in it for the short term.

      I'm sorry you feel the people who leased your horse weren't very nice to him.
      "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

      Comment


      • #4
        I hear ya, leased out my horse when I first got her to a gal with a few years riding experience. Well, that was all she had. Even with a contract she thought her lease payment covered a certain amount of 'rides' per month, so when the weather would be bad or the horse was lame she would expect make up rides. Thank goodness in the contract it allowed me to end the lease any time, which is what got me out of it after catching her not cooling out my horse after a hard ride before feeding her. Moral of the story, I won't ever lease again.

        Comment


        • #5
          EAY I hear you and agree....need a contract and a fee. This is especially so with a knowledgeable horse that has something of value to offer to a riders development.

          Comment


          • #6
            What kind of trainer lets a rider do 13-14 jumping classes in a weekend ? I dont care what kind of conditioning a horse has--that is just rediculous.

            Talking about jumping his legs off.
            Windswept Stables-Specializing in Ponies
            Sales, Breaking,Training,Showing, Stud Service

            Home of 2008 Sire of Year Reserve Champion
            Pony Hunter Breeding - Empires Power

            www.EmpiresPower.com

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by WorthTheWait95 View Post
              Even free leased horses should go with a signed contract that covers things such as how many classes/show they can do and at what heights. That's always a bummer but I have to ask: If she was in your barn and you were aware of what was happening why didn't you talk to her about your concerns?
              We do have a contract. It does specify that he is to be maintained in good, show ready condition but does not cover the number of shows or heights that he can do. To be fair to her, she did only show him once per month and for at least the first part of the summer he was still in good condition. I did mention my concerns to her, mostly via our trainer, but she always answered that he was "old" and that she didn't want to overdo it. She doesn't seem to understand that that just makes proper conditioning even more important.

              I do admit that I should have been more up front about my concerns, but for the most part he's been happily grazing in his field and I was optimistic that she would finally get serious about him and I still think they could be a good team. To be honest I was also concerned about the financial implications of their ending the lease early.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by Windswept Stable View Post
                What kind of trainer lets a rider do 13-14 jumping classes in a weekend ? I dont care what kind of conditioning a horse has--that is just rediculous.

                Talking about jumping his legs off.
                She meets her own trainer for these shows, and this routine seems to be standard practice at this show series. I found this out by looking at the results, which are posted online. I got the impression this was a fairly widespread problem after reading some of the threads that have been started here about instituting rules limiting the number of classes that a horse can do. These are not USEF shows but they are rated by our state association so there are stewards present.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by EAY View Post
                  To be honest I was also concerned about the financial implications of their ending the lease early.
                  I don't think any money would be worth allowing them to overjump my unconditioned horse.
                  "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm sorry to hear that your situation did not go well.

                    I have a free lease on a fantastic, experienced hunter and I can say that I have to agree that the kind of care I give her is the exception, not the norm.

                    I love her like my own and treat her like she is worth a million dollars. I often go without to make sure she gets the best of everything - care, supplements, vet work, training, properly fitting tack and equipment. I would never want her owner to say the kind of things you said about your leaser about me.

                    It does seem to be that that these days most people do not value what they get for free.

                    Hopefully, you find some comfort that there are people like me out there.

                    Perhaps you could find a part boarder instead, to help offset the costs?
                    Proud Member of the "Tidy Rabbit Tinfoil Hat Wearers" clique and the "I'm in my 30's and Hope to be a Good Rider Someday" clique

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Spud&Saf View Post
                      Perhaps you could find a part boarder instead, to help offset the costs?
                      Is this a Canadian expression? I'm not familiar with it. Is it like a partial lease, where the person has the right to ride a certain number of days per week?

                      I'm happy to hear that there are situations like yours where the lessee treats the horse as their own. At first I thought it was going to be the same for my horse. They really seemed to like him and even decided to put him on joint supplements at their expense.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yup, usually when someone talks about part-boarding, it is where they continue to ride their horse and 'share'.

                        That's too bad your situation didn't work out. However, don't let one bad experience turn you off the possibility forever. I have had the opportunity to meet many really nice riders through part-boarding my horses. They always treated them very well. Perhaps part-boarding and taking an active role in what the horse is doing would work better for you in the future.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by EAY View Post
                          Is this a Canadian expression? I'm not familiar with it. Is it like a partial lease, where the person has the right to ride a certain number of days per week?

                          I'm happy to hear that there are situations like yours where the lessee treats the horse as their own. At first I thought it was going to be the same for my horse. They really seemed to like him and even decided to put him on joint supplements at their expense.
                          I think it is - I used it all the time in Ontario, but people in BC had no idea what it meant. Basically a partial free-lease.

                          I've free-part-leased a number of horses; I think you had someone who would have been irresponsible if it were her horse or one she owned. Leasors aren't all negligent!
                          "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I did an in-barn free lease, WITH a contract. Ended up with my horse being retired way too early, and me leaving the barn on bad terms.

                            Lesson learned: NEVER LEASE OUT A HORSE AGAIN.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm very sorry for your bad experience w/ the free lease. If it weren't for free lease situations my son, who is a talented rider but unfortunately doesn't come from a family that can throw down 5 figures for a horse, would have nothing of any quality to ride. I wish WE had been the ones to lease this horse from you, as he sounds exactly like what we're looking for right now. Any time we've free leased a pony/horse, it's always involved a written contract, sometimes involved insuring the animal. I can't believe anyone could be so inconsiderate of a horse to show in 13-14- OF classes in a weekend, fit or not. No matter what is customary in your area, I would spell out exactly how I wanted my horse handled ina contract, even if no money changed hands. He is, after all, YOUR horse and if they can't live by your terms- find another horse. This kind of behaviour( and it happens more than you realize) makes it hard for the others that are considerate of the horse and the owner who was kind enough to permit them to ride the horse.
                              " It's about the horse, and that's it."
                              George Morris

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                First off, I'm sorry your leasing experience was not good.

                                Second, I'd advise you to please not write off the whole idea! As both leasor and lessee, I have had some GREAT experiences and a lease -- partial or full, "free" or with a lease fee on top of expenses -- can be good for all concerned.

                                Finally, I'd recommend that you take this as a learning experience. As already stated, this is YOUR horse. When I have leased out one of mine, a painfully detailed contract (which I'm happy to share) is signed. I specify what the horse may be used for, how often s/he is to be ridden, what tack may be used, and that any showing or other unusualy work is only with my express permission, granted in advance. There is also a clause in there about following verbal or written instructions from the owner. And everyone understands that if I'm not happy with the day-to-day stuff, special things like shows or off-site trail rides will not be allowed!

                                On the fee, unless you get your guy to the point that he is a properly conditioned, reliable packer, it's unlikely anyone will be willing to pay a fee on top of expenses for a lease. I suspect that a better bet would be to stick with a free lease (or a partial lease), and use a great contract to cover all your expectations up front ... and then make it clear from Day One that Mama is watching and if Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
                                Equinox Equine Massage

                                In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was in me invincible summer.
                                -Albert Camus

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X