• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What does it mean when a trainer says they "produced" a horse?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What does it mean when a trainer says they "produced" a horse?

    I've seen this many times but don't quite understand what it means. Does anyone else?
    The ultimate horse mom

    http://www.youtube.com/user/LeeB110

  • #2
    Bought it. Trained it. Showed it. Sold it.
    Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      so did they buy it green or not going? And then they taught it everything that it knows?
      The ultimate horse mom

      http://www.youtube.com/user/LeeB110

      Comment


      • #4


        Or they bred it, but yes that's the idea. The trainer /owner/ rider made the horse what it is today. Or at least gave it it's start in the world.
        Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

        Comment


        • #5
          Usually produced implies that it came from not broke or very green broke.

          I say implies because some trainers have slightly different meanings and some trainers like to use 'produced' so that people think the trainer brought the horse up from not knowing anything when in reality the horse knew a lot and either just did not show or only showed in local shows, so no real 'evidence' of what the horse knew before it got to the trainer.

          Comment


          • #6
            bred it, trained it, brought it on to a certain level - whether or not they sold it after that depends on the person!
            Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? - The horse. (R.Duncan)

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              last question, and thanks for the answers, would the trainers have actually ridden the horse themselves or ??
              The ultimate horse mom

              http://www.youtube.com/user/LeeB110

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd hope a "trainer" was riding horses. If the "trainer" isn't the one doing the riding, I wouldn't consider them a trainer. A coach maybe, in which case they produce riders, not horses. The rider produces the horse, whether or not they are a pro is not important.

                Of course I'd venture to guess it's a term that is used pretty loosely in the horse world so I'd just try to take it in the context it's used or ask the person when they say it.
                Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah, but doesn't have to be a green horse. One could say that McLain made Sapphire as she wasn't what she is today when he bought her. Same for Beezie Madden and Authentic.
                  Although they were good horses in the Netherlands, they became top horses only after being trained by the above-mentioned riders.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LeeB10 View Post
                    last question, and thanks for the answers, would the trainers have actually ridden the horse themselves or ??
                    I would have thought so!
                    Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride, friendship without envy, or beauty without vanity? - The horse. (R.Duncan)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It means they made it a winner. And no, I don't agree that they need to be the one on it. There are many good trainers who have developed great horses from the ground using multiple riders.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd say that as long as the horse was made a winner in said trainer's program, the trainer could say they produced the horse. Because, if you think about it, they produced the riders who produced the horse, and it is their methods being used on said horse, not Ammy Amy's.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CBoylen View Post
                          It means they made it a winner. And no, I don't agree that they need to be the one on it. There are many good trainers who have developed great horses from the ground using multiple riders.
                          Ditto.

                          Some of the very best trainers rarely ride themselves - and some are much better trainers than they are riders.
                          Roseknoll Sporthorses
                          www.roseknoll.net

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In my opinion the rider is the one who produces the horse. A trainer who doesn't ride may be managing the horse but they certainly are not getting it done ON the horse.

                            There are many instances where the "trainer" who owns/runs the facility is managing the horses but has pro-riders doing the actual training rides and never actually gets on the horse him/herself.

                            In my estimation this "trainer" who is managing the horse is not the one who is producing the horse. I'd rather see the rider who is on board and training the horse get the credit.
                            Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tidy rabbit View Post
                              In my opinion the rider is the one who produces the horse. A trainer who doesn't ride may be managing the horse but they certainly are not getting it done ON the horse.

                              There are many instances where the "trainer" who owns/runs the facility is managing the horses but has pro-riders doing the actual training rides and never actually gets on the horse him/herself.

                              In my estimation this "trainer" who is managing the horse is not the one who is producing the horse. I'd rather see the rider who is on board and training the horse get the credit.
                              Respectfully, I really disagree on this issue. In my experience, top show horses are frequently developed by a number of pro riders who do exactly as told by the trainer - whether that is Geoff Teall, George Morris, Andre Dignelli, or whoever. I grew up riding with Judy Richter at Coker Farm, who discovered many greenbeans and diamonds in the rough in the field in outer nowheresville and made them champions - with their owners and/or pros up. She unequivocally was the trainer who produced them. Pam Baker, another example. Don Stewart. Or how about Scott Stewart and his young protegee Victoria Colvin. Would people say a horse is produced by Scott or 11 year old Victoria under his watch?

                              And what about racehorses? According to your theory, Michael Matz was not the trainer of Barbaro because he was not his jockey.

                              Even the ones that can and do ride competitively sometimes only wear a trainer hat with particular horses.
                              Roseknoll Sporthorses
                              www.roseknoll.net

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
                                Respectfully, I really disagree on this issue. In my experience, top show horses are frequently developed by a number of pro riders who do exactly as told by the trainer - whether that is Geoff Teall, George Morris, Andre Dignelli, or whoever. I grew up riding with Judy Richter at Coker Farm, who discovered many greenbeans and diamonds in the rough in the field in outer nowheresville and made them champions - with their owners and/or pros up. She unequivocally was the trainer who produced them. Pam Baker, another example. Don Stewart. Or how about Scott Stewart and his young protegee Victoria Colvin. Would people say a horse is produced by Scott or 11 year old Victoria under his watch?

                                And what about racehorses? According to your theory, Michael Matz was not the trainer of Barbaro because he was not his jockey.

                                Even the ones that can and do ride competitively sometimes only wear a trainer hat with particular horses.
                                I think I have to agree with YankeeLawyer's definition. If a trainer breeds or procures a horse, dictates their training/development/campaigning program from baby to successful competitor, they produced the horse, regardless of who's hands touched the horse along the way.

                                I rode a lot of green horses under my fathers direction coming up, but I was as interchangeable as the saddle, it was his program and direction that made them what they were, definitely not my riding skills.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hauwse,

                                  Who is your dad? You have made me curious with all your references to him. He sounds like someone I would like to meet.

                                  - C

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Hauwse View Post
                                    I think I have to agree with YankeeLawyer's definition. If a trainer breeds or procures a horse, dictates their training/development/campaigning program from baby to successful competitor, they produced the horse, regardless of who's hands touched the horse along the way.

                                    I rode a lot of green horses under my fathers direction coming up, but I was as interchangeable as the saddle, it was his program and direction that made them what they were, definitely not my riding skills.
                                    Couldnt agree with y'all more!!!
                                    Dina
                                    www.threewishesfarm.com
                                    www.fairharbourfarm.com
                                    http://www.facebook.com/ThreeWishesFarm Like us on Facebook!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      It sounds like a high-falutin,' yet confusing, way to say "trained."
                                      Looking for horse activity in the Twin Tiers? Follow my blog at http://thetwintiershorse.blogspot.com/

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        To me it means they took a horse that was a "diamond in the rough" and turned it into a quality riding horse or winning show horse. So usually I think it refers to starting either unbroke or very green and finishing the horse but of course some trainers like to get credit for "producing" a horse when all they did was clean up its lead changes. As to whether the trainer must actually the be the rider, thats debatable. If the trainer is the main influence in how it is ridden then I think they can say they produced it. Its kind of like a puppet master.. the puppet may be the one who is dancing but the pupper master is pulling the strings (lousy analogy I know...).

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X