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Who the "he double hockey sticks" is Penelope Ayers?

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  • Who the "he double hockey sticks" is Penelope Ayers?

    Ok, Sorry but why is she giving her opinion in the COTH? Amateur Issue?

    Why is her opinion is the one that should be published in the COTH?

    Who decided she can speak for us?

    I am thinking if she gets the press why doesn't anyone else's view have equal time?

    Her account of the past is SO not what I remember.

    Back in the day, Fox hunting was the main focus of "hunters".

    Trainers were a product of wealthy families who could afford "trainer" who would bring along young horse to become fox hunters and then horse showing. Which was the next by product of fox hunting.
    Trainers were not the focus at all like is is today. I mean trainers worked for the wealthy and the ones that could not afford trainers did it themselves, called amateurs, as they were.
    Now your opinion....

  • #2
    Penelope is a A/O rider with the Lobel's, in NJ, she also has something to do with the ASPCA? I believe. Did not read the article yet as I have not received the magazine as of today. She has had and has a lot of really nice A/O hunters, she has grown as a rider. She has spent her time and dues in the Amy div. Would I have picked her for an article probably not sure, she spends the MONEY and that seems to be the primary concern as of late for horse showing.
    Last edited by ALOHA; Nov. 30, 2009, 09:41 PM.


    • #3
      I haven't read the article, but your topic title is rude. Penelope Ayers is a very well known person who has been in this business a long time. She supports the sport, gives back her time and effort, supports the professionals with nice horses. She loves her horses, loves to show no matter what color ribbon she winds up with, and is a polite and gracious competitor. Exactly everything an amateur should be, in my opinion.

      I'll have to get to the article when I can, but your comments don't make sense to me. I don't know how far back in the day you want to go, but my mother has had show horses since the fifties. They were never being produced as foxhunters. Dave Kelley was her trainer, he made them up and they went to the ring. They even had the beginnings of a winter Fl circuit by the early sixties. I can't see it as as far removed from what we have today as you seem to be implying.


      • #4
        Anyone is free to submit an opinion article to CotH. She took the time / made the effort to write. You could do the same if the topic matters to you this much .... just saying.

        "Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit."
        - Desiderata, (c) Max Ehrman, 1926


        • #5
          Well, perhaps she was asked by COTH because of her lengthy experience? I have not read the piece yet, have not got to the magazine and have had trouble logging into the online version.

          Sorry, I don't assume just because I don't know somebody I can ask who the hell they are and demand to know why they were quoted and I was not. That is pretty rude.

          I've only been in the Hunters for 17 years and little has changed. Started Western on the west coast in the 60s though and all the disciplines showed together on the old AHSA circuit. There were some nationally known Hunters and they had no more fox hunted then the Western horses had ever seen a cow. There were were lots of trainers around too, most of the ammies had to work to much to start a youngster, even back 40 years ago.

          Who decided OP speak for us?
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


          • #6
            That's quite a chip on your shoulder

            Penelope Ayers is a member of the USHJA Amateur Committee and an active rider in the amateur divisions. I haven't had a chance to read the article in question but agree with CBoylen that your topic title is rude and uncalled for.

            I very much doubt that Penelope is speaking for anyone but herself, and she is as entitled to her opinion(s) as anyone else. COTH frequently publishes articles outlining the thoughts and opinions of various people involved in the sport, and has done so for many years.

            If you disagree with whatever she wrote, write a letter to COTH outlining your point of view. They are very good about publishing multiple opinions and promoting discussion.

            Oh and by the way - there have been show hunters around for many more years than you seem to acknowledge. You have only to Google any of the old historic shows to find accounts of classes held 100+ years ago.
            We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.


            • #7
              OK, I actually read the article...

              It is NOT an article. It is a reader submission to a feature called The Forum-all readers are invited to submit their thoughts, ideas and/or questions to COTH for inclusion. Kind of a beefed up Letters to the Editor feature.

              So Ms. Ayers was not selected, she just sent it in.

              Oh, and the subject is leaving the Owner in the Amateur Owner-apparently there is a rule change on the table to remove the ownership requirement. One that was not run by the Amateur committee she sits on.

              She makes a good case. I don't necessarily agree with her but The Forum is the place where something like this is properly presented.

              The Forum feature welcomes submissions from all readers-perhaps if OP submitted something? Her view would have equal time? And she could stop with the why was this person selected statements and the innuendo she was left out?
              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


              • #8
                If you don't know who Penelope Ayers is you most likely don't show much. This is extremely rude. Everybody can have an opinion. And by the way, who the H*** is Summit Springs Farm??? :-)LOL
                Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
                November 11-13, 2016


                • #9
                  Summit.... She shows in Ocala in the winter. Im sure you have seen her when you have been down there.


                  • #10
                    I've known "Penny" for quite a while - may be longer than any of us would like to admit. The bottom line is she loves the horses and she loves the sport. I'm glad she spoke up with her opinion.

                    She's one of the good 'uns. MHO.

                    "Horsemanship is not merely a matter of bodily skills, but is based on scholarship and, therefore, is a matter of the mind and intellect." Charles de Kunffy



                    • #11
                      For those of us who do not have access to the article (or opinion piece) would it be possible for someone who has seen it to give us a quick summary? It sounds interesting.


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EAY View Post
                        For those of us who do not have access to the article (or opinion piece) would it be possible for someone who has seen it to give us a quick summary? It sounds interesting.
                        USHJA has a rule change proposal to drop the ownership requirement from the Ammy Owners and, I guess, just make it 3'6" Ammies. As I said, they did not submit it to the amateur commitee first but it will be on the agenda at the upcoming convention.

                        She argues it will hurt overall as the ability to buy the made one and put anybody on it as opposed to selecting a green one and bringing it along with the Pro in the First Years and yourself in the A/Os hurts both exhibitor and their trainer. Fewer will go for that greenie so fewer will go to the trainers. More will lease or borrow or catch ride a made horse and there will be less advantage to ownership.

                        She has a point...I do know some very, very successful A/Os and they all start with a Pre Green and bring them along.

                        Anyway, not sure I agree but she makes a good point. Worth some thought.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                        • #13
                          And who the h*ll are YOU and why should we care what YOU think?!


                          • #14
                            Shawneeacres............. are you serious? Must we all be so nasty it is the holiday season


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Va2Ga View Post
                              Shawneeacres............. are you serious? Must we all be so nasty it is the holiday season

                              Sorry but I don't much care for the tone of the OP's title or post, regardless of who she or the person in question is. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I've actually been in the MOST marvelous mode this week, until I saw this and it just turned me off.


                              • #16
                                The current rule proposal is to take the "O" out of the AO jumpers. Her concerns are that this was not vetted by the USHJA Amateur Committee (of which she is a member), that this will end up getting extended to the hunter division, and that amateurs will lose the incentive to buy a young horse and bring it along (or have it brought along). A quote from the article regarding this last concern: "If this rule passes why should amateurs spend time and money on young horses we we could simply lease a made horse and trade it in when it no longer suits the purpose."

                                She states her position clearly and non-inflammatorily (if that's a word). I definitely agree with her first concern. The second one I consider a non-issue b/c I think things might be better with the O out of the AO hunters (my opinion, to which I am entitled, just as she is entitled to hers). The third one I don't agree with b/c it seems that ammys buy horses to bring along and show in the AA's or eq where ownership is not a requirement.
                                The Evil Chem Prof


                                • #17
                                  I noticed they sent a three question survey around via email - must have been to the USEF membership - asking for opinions on this issue with respect to the A/O jumper division, and also asking whether a change in the ownership requirement for jumpers would impact the hunters as well.

                                  It's an interesting topic, for sure.

                                  My own opinion ... A/O horses are pricey, whether hunter or jumper. It seems unfair to limit participation in those divisions only to those who can afford to own outright. There are plenty of riders who have the skill and desire to move up out of the adult ammy ranks... I think they should be able to, even if they don't own.

                                  I think the worry about not bringing along the nice young horses is unfounded; there will always be a market for a nice amateur horse, and even if people want to catch ride or lease or whatever... those horses have to come from somewhere. There is no shortage of nice horses in the adult ammy divisions; I believe the same would be true of an amateur not-necessarily-owner division.
                                  We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Lucassb View Post
                                    I noticed they sent a three question survey around via email - must have been to the USEF membership - asking for opinions.
                                    Really? When did that survey email go out?

                                    Just wondering if I got it and didn't read/remember it, or if it didn't go out to all USEF members.


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by MHM View Post
                                      Really? When did that survey email go out?

                                      Just wondering if I got it and didn't read/remember it, or if it didn't go out to all USEF members.
                                      It was in a USHJA update email that I got on Nov 24. Pertinent text reads as follows:

                                      Amateur Owner Rule Change Survey

                                      The USHJA Amateurs Committee would like your input on rule change proposal JP117 tracking number 523-09. If you are an amateur or have an interest in the amateur owner rules please fill out this short survey. (Link to survey, which may or may not work, b/c I already took it and thus was referred to a page that said I had: http://www.surveymonkey.com/Home_Lan...5zsRAajg%3d%3d)

                                      Your input is appreciated. For questions concerning this rule, please contact Sterling Berry at sberry@ushja.org or Tracey Weinberg at tweinberg@weinbergharris.com.
                                      The Evil Chem Prof


                                      • #20
                                        I just took the survey a minute ago. I think it was in the USHJA newsletter dated Nov 25.
                                        ~ Citizens for a Kinder, Gentler COTH...our mantra: Be nice. ~