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OUTRAGED!!! by the use of Spike Poles and other abusive methods by local "big name" trainers.

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  • #21
    BOR couldn't have stated it better. There is a time and a place for almost all gadgets in this world. A quick fix is sometimes better than a long slow year long bad process. Many "legal" things can be abusive when used by the wrong people (double twisted wire snaffles, long sharp spurs, etc etc). Its all in the context in which the device is being used. If I have a horse that isn't naturally Rox Dene, and will sometimes get lazy with his front end, I wouldn't be opposed to using something to sharpen him up a little. Same idea as if I had a horse that was dull to my leg I would sharpen him up with a spur. Not exactly comfortable for the horse, but gets my point across quickly.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    www.scatteredoaksfarm.com
    My adventures as a working rider

    theworkingrider.blogspot.com

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    • #22
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AdultMedals:
      My trainers have also been know to tape a row of thumbtacks to our saddle to make sure we are out of the tack enough in the air...theyare sharper than pole tacks, and I've landed on them a few times. It stings, but no lasting pain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If my trainer ever did this, it would be my last ride with her.

      _____________________________________
      Any coupon works! Beware of paper cuts!

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      • #23
        I would define a successful trainer as one who can get the maximum performance out of both horse and rider without resorting to pain and abusive methods.
        Man plans. God laughs.

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        • #24
          Second that, Flash. Sorry y'all, you are NOT going to convince me that spike poles - plastic or not - are OK.

          ...And no, "GM uses them" is not an excuse.

          ______________

          Can I show under an alter, TOO?
          "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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          • #25
            Getting into trouble with semantics on this one.

            Schooling lingo defines "spike pole" in some places as those nubby plastic carpet runners..in most cases the nubs are like bubble wrap, not sharp points. It will sting if they clobber it but won't have any effect if they are clean, which is why something like this can be effective without hurting the horse.
            I have, unfortunatly, seen the real thing-nails sticking out of a strip (carpet tack strips are premade and perfect).
            While the plastic nubby "spike pole" is a legitimate and humane way to OCCAISIONALLY sharpen one up, the real thing has NO place around anybody's barn..JMHO.

            Overuse of even a humane technique tho, will cause it to loose effectiveness, then some feel they have to step it up.
            I have never seen much use for devices and techniques that keep punishing the horse and do not reward correctness so I'm not a fan of chips in really tight boots that irritate all the time and the like.

            I was taught, too, that you NEVER want anybody to see that you are having a problem and need to resort to this stuff so you NEVER do it at a show or when there are alot of people watching you...at home schooling ONLY.

            Why anybody would openly advertise they need this stuff is beyond my comprehension.

            The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.
            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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            • #26
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I've NEVER seen someone use nails on a pole. Plastic strips with nubs on them yes, nails no. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I HAVE seen poles with BIG nails sticking out of them. I did not see them actually being used, but they were sitting there on the jump in the ring.

              At a barm managed by a trainer who has now been banned for life.

              Janet
              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
              Janet

              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

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              • #27
                Whalo,
                No, I don't you spurs. I have never had to.
                If you are a good trainer you do not have to cause pain to train your horse or horses. You look for a horse that has the talent to do the jumping. You can not make a horse have it.

                Would you like someone to make you bloody and wounded to do a job that you may not be able to do. If yes is your answer than we can beat you everyday of your life to do it. And then you can tell me how you feel.

                If the horse can not do it, then find one that can!

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                • #28
                  You know, I feel like I would be betraying my horse if I asked him to do something that I know has a high probability of causing him pain. He's taken such great care of me and trusted me even though I could tell he was apprehensive. He goes into the ring and does everything I ask of him because he knows that nothing bad will happen to him. Even if the jump looks scary, or the judge's stand, or the flapping sign in the wind. His trust in me and willingness to do what I ask is, by far, his most outstanding quality.
                  Man plans. God laughs.

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                  • #29
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by findeight:
                    I was taught, too, that you NEVER want anybody to see that you are having a problem and need to resort to this stuff so you NEVER do it at a show or when there are alot of people watching you...at home schooling ONLY.
                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    I was taught that if you are too ashamed to do something in public, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
                    Man plans. God laughs.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      As others have said, I see nothing wrong with using the blunt plastic carpet tac on a horse who is getting lazy about his legs. Of course I would try other methods first - poles before and after the jump, gymnastics, setting the horse up to jump at the base, etc - but sometimes you just need to use it. As another poster already said, I'd rather let my horse hit his legs on the carpet tack a few times, rather then repeatedly beating himself on a wooden pole. No, I wouldn't use these with beginner riders, or green horses that I wanted to build confidence on, but I do feel that they have there place. As for using whips and spurs, I think again, if used correctly they have their place. Whats that saying that saying that gun enthusiasts say? "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" Well, same thing here. I don't think it's the spurs, whips and tack poles (and by the way I don't think that metal tack tack on poles and tacks on saddles should EVER have a place in the equine world IMHO) aren't what we should be worried about. Instead we should be looking at who is using them - they can be useful tools, or abusive forms of punishment depending.

                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Cautious Val

                      Delightfully Irish
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                      https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

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                      • #31
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AdultMedals:
                        My trainers have also been know to tape a row of thumbtacks to our saddle to make sure we are out of the tack enough in the air...theyare sharper than pole tacks, and I've landed on them a few times. It stings, but no lasting pain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        And you ride there because.............

                        Actually never heard of anything like this in 37 years of horse ownership..
                        Or it's a troll??

                        The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                        • #32
                          I want my horse to ENJOY jumping. He clearly doesn't like to hit his legs on regular old jump poles. If he started hitting a lot of poles I would not assume he was "being lazy" and start abusing him. I'd get the trainer out to tell me what I was doing wrong, because most "hits" on poles are caused by poor riding. Then I'd get the vet out to make sure it wasn't soreness or something in the horse causing the so-called "laziness".

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                          • #33
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
                            You know, I feel like I would be betraying my horse if I asked him to do something that I know has a high probability of causing him pain. He's taken such great care of me and trusted me even though I could tell he was apprehensive. He goes into the ring and does everything I ask of him because he knows that nothing bad will happen to him. Even if the jump looks scary, or the judge's stand, or the flapping sign in the wind. His trust in me and willingness to do what I ask is, by far, his most outstanding quality.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Amen, Flash, Amen.
                            Freaky Farm Hermit Clique
                            Mighty Thoroughbred Clique COMH Page: Tory Relic

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                            • #34
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AdultMedals:
                              My trainers have also been know to tape a row of thumbtacks to our saddle to make sure we are out of the tack enough in the air...theyare sharper than pole tacks, and I've landed on them a few times. It stings, but no lasting pain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              How does that work? Do you have to stay completely out of your saddle the entire ride? That seems ineffective.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freebird:
                                - poles before and after the jump, gymnastics, setting the horse up to jump at the base, etc - but sometimes you just need to use it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                The whole idea behind a tack rail is that there is nothing different about the jumps to the horse. It looks just like the show ring. If he jumps clean, no problem. If he is lazy, he feels it. And the rider does nothing to cause this and is in no way associated with the pain in the horse's mind. Horses that have to jump a lot of jumps in their careers do get lazy and do learn "shortcuts" and most need to be reminded from time to time to maintain their best form.

                                Laurie
                                Laurie

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                                • #36
                                  I don't think that little numbs on a pole can hurt a horse. They numbs are actually office mats stapled upside down on the pole. If they are already hitting the poles they needs to learn to pick up their feet to insure that they won't hurt themselves by runnung into the poles. The real thing that you should be worrying about is poling. For those of you who don't know what poling is, it is when a trainer ties bamboo rods to the horses front legs. When they go over a jump the rider pulls up on the rods so the horse will jump with his legs up and square. It is illegal in the US but legal in Europe. So many nice and talented horses are ruined by poling. Spikes on the poles are nothing compared to poling!

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                                  • #37
                                    I am OUTRAGED by how some people ride...pile driving seat, anvil hands, clamped legs! And we are worried about carpet runner? Holy hey suss what are we going to be outraged by next? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

                                    Betsy
                                    www.threewindsfarmny.com

                                    Lead, follow, or get out of the way...
                                    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

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                                    • #38
                                      Oh, god...if the trainers of the greatest horses in the country used all-natural methods, we wouldn't have the horses we do.

                                      Why is everyone naive enough to believe that the best don't do things like this?

                                      Also, "spiked" rails = office mat.

                                      Unless you have something that knocks the crap out of every fence they jump, no pain will be inflicted.

                                      - L.

                                      It's all about the act right.

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                                      • #39
                                        There are always difference of opinions, this is what I try to base all of my animal related matters on, Would I want this done to me? I truthfully think that if more people sat back and thought about it alot of things would change. I am not talking about extreme measures, I going on the lines of poling a horse or drilling holes in the bottoms of walking horses feet to put ball bearings in there so the horse will snap his feet up higher. And they wonder why these horses have to have 2 to 3 people holding it while it is blindfolded just so the rider can get on. Of course that is my opinion, and I know there are people who disagree and I respect that. I am just saying that I could not and would allow anyone to do that to my horse.
                                        I'm so busy.....I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.

                                        Alright put your big girl panties on and deal with it!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by juppy:
                                          Whalo,
                                          No, I don't you spurs. I have never had to.
                                          If you are a good trainer you do not have to cause pain to train your horse or horses. You look for a horse that has the talent to do the jumping. You can not make a horse have it.

                                          Would you like someone to make you bloody and wounded to do a job that you may not be able to do. If yes is your answer than we can beat you everyday of your life to do it. And then you can tell me how you feel.

                                          If the horse can not do it, then find one that can!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Im sorry but this is absolulty messed up, i have seen hundreds of olimpic and GP riders carry both a spur and stick i they are all great riders, and i think just stupid to brag about not using a spur and even dumber to commend it wrong.

                                          also a horse or person was never pushed passed its limits i would never really know what it can or cannot acomplish, mabye something to think about

                                          *~First god made man, then he though better of it and made a woman, and then he made a horse who combines the spirit and strangth of a man and the beauty and grace of a woman~*
                                          Astound (this is my new boy that i got from OH)
                                          Western Dance &lt;3
                                          Lauren Bacall &lt;3 (for sale)
                                          *~First god made man, then he though better of it and made a woman, and then he made a horse who combines the spirit and strangth of a man and the beauty and grace of a woman~*
                                          Astound (this is my new boy that i got from OH)
                                          Western Dance <3
                                          Laure

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