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Great LA Times article on grooms' working conditions at Thermal

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Foireann Eireannach
    referring to, word for word. Unless the reporters couldn't read, it couldn't have been a mistake. The facts were changed for the benefit of the articles, and then repeated over and over by other newspapers and reporters quoting "facts" that were not verified. The other reporters could have easily checked, it was a matter of public record. No one did. I'm sure there are still plenty of good reporters, it is just that the bad ones really give the industry a bad (and maybe undeserved) reputation.
    I was actually referring to the photos you mentioned as possibly having been an error.

    There are good and bad in every industry. I'm sure there are plenty of shoddy reporters out there. However, I'm not one of them, nor are any of the reporters I have for friends. (Although we are human and do make mistakes.)

    So howzabout not coming out with both barrels blazing, claiming that the reporter for this particular story filed it under a fraudulent dateline and that the photos are deceitfully labeled as being from the show, just because you happen to have had a bad experience with a bad reporter?

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Erin View Post
      Any decent-sized paper worth a damn, and most certainly the LA Times, has a virtual wall between their ad departments and their editorial departments, for a reason.
      They may be decent-sized, but it sure doesn't guarantee that they're decent
      --o0o--

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Erin View Post
        Any decent-sized paper worth a damn, and most certainly the LA Times, has a virtual wall between their ad departments and their editorial departments, for a reason.
        Heh, or worth a damn, for that matter...
        --o0o--

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Sarabeth View Post
          Heh, or worth a damn, for that matter...
          Fact remains that it is pretty difficult for the ad department at any newpaper to influence the editorial department, whether or not you think they're decent or worth a damn.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Sarabeth View Post
            Hey, if it were blond white people grooming the horses at Thermal for at or below minimum wage (not counting tips), the LA Times wouldn't give it an inch of space - it's all about creating SCANDAL, don't ya know!

            Just like the Times' story about those horrible minimum wage jobs at Taco Bell, or Target, or Galpin Ford...oops! those stories don't exist, those companies *paid for advertising space in the Times*...
            Sarabeth... the average groom at Thermal is probably clearing more money per year than you are.

            Comment


            • #46
              oh who gives a rat's ass...

              where that picture of jessica helms came from? If it was not from
              thermal... it was from another A show ... in the same circle ... that everyone travels in. same boot... different day... what else should we parse over? I love parsing BTW...

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Foireann Eireannach
                The LA Times loves this kind of story.
                My bad... I guess living in Orange County for 28 yrs. means i don't get the LA times... I love the Register... Best fishwrap evah!

                You go FE... I think you are on to something gigantic... EPIC...

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Foireann Eireannach
                  I don't see them printing articles about how much their executives are paid and the dirt wages their paper delivery people are paid.
                  Well, their delivery people aren't dying in livestock trailers...

                  Face it, the story of two immigrants dying in a horse trailer on the grounds of a fancy-shmancy horse show is news. Just like it was news when a NYT reporter was killed in a mugging in a nice DC neighborhood last year. The other 180-odd people killed in DC last year are just as dead... most of them just didn't happen to be as newsworthy.

                  This sounds like none of the riders, fans and owners even cared about the grooms' deaths. I know people from some of the barns that were showing down there. They had all heard about it. I'm not sure where the "few" comes from.
                  It said "few," not none. And there were people posting right here on this forum who had a similar impression, if I remember right from the other thread.

                  It's not an in-depth expose -- they probably just had a reporter and a photog schlep the 2 hours from LA out the I-10 to scope out the horse show for an afternoon. If you want to think it's somewhat one-sided, well, OK, but it's hardly a hachet job. Like I said, I *am* a horse person who's spent lots and lots of time around horse shows, and even I was a bit taken aback at the have/have-not divide at some of those big A shows.

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                  • #49
                    the reporter...

                    talked to at least 1000 people at thermal... 999 had no comment... who knew?

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      the average groom at thermal is definately making more money than me. heck, the average worker at mickey-dees is making more money than me.
                      oh yea, it could be the fact i work for free! LOL

                      the LA times does get really dramatic at times. i was researching for my philosophy class in their database and came up with an article that was very cleverly, but not so subtley, spun to fit their exact needs. just as this one seems to have been. However, i think that's just the nature of papers. They are written to sell, and if they are completely PC or even fair then they will be too bland to attract readers.

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Erin View Post
                        Fact remains that it is pretty difficult for the ad department at any newpaper to influence the editorial department, whether or not you think they're decent or worth a damn.
                        Friend, the "editorial department" exists solely to create the excitement that SELLS PAPERS. Their job is to get LA's hearts beating faster, whatever it takes to do that...the truth is just something to be stepped over on the way to getting attention.
                        --o0o--

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Here is the deal...

                          the Horse Owners at Thermal and the West Coast Circuit are paying the going rate ... set by the grooms ... for Groom Services. If I am in a barn that requires me to pay either directly or indirectly ... for grooming day fees and expenses... I pay it. I don't hire the groom. The Trainer hires the groom. the deal is cut between the groom and the trainer. Period.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Sarabeth View Post
                            Friend, the "editorial department" exists solely to create the excitement that SELLS PAPERS. Their job is to get LA's hearts beating faster, whatever it takes to do that...the truth is just something to be stepped over on the way to getting attention.
                            I can hear the collective LA heartthumping as we speak... this story was so hot that www.perezhilton.com decided NOT to comment about it...

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              OK. Here you are, dealing with our show grooms firsthand.

                              Here I am, with firsthand knowlege of LA Times creative "reporting".

                              And THEN, here is our mod, from the East Coast. She totally buys that our local, albeit large, birdcage liner newspaper reports that we treat grooms like animals. Hmm.... I give up. Erin, why don't you tell us how it's done here, we are obviously just a bunch of sadly clueless fools.
                              --o0o--

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Sarabeth View Post
                                OK. Here you are, dealing with our show grooms firsthand.

                                Here I am, with firsthand knowlege of LA Times creative "reporting".

                                And THEN, here is our mod, from the East Coast. She totally buys that our local, albeit large, birdcage liner newspaper reports that we treat grooms like animals. Hmm.... I give up. Erin, why don't you tell us how it's done here, we are obviously just a bunch of sadly clueless fools.
                                Sarabeth... with all due respect... I need you to tell me where"our East Coast Mod"... was buying in to ANYTHING... and where she states that she believes that "we treat grooms like animals" and I don't feel ... at this particular moment... like Erin thinks we all's "are obviously just a bunch of sadly clueless fools" I.. for one... rarely, if evah... feel like a "sadly clueless fool" , but then sadly... I'm a legend in my own mind...

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Foireann Eireannach
                                  I used to work for a company that had offices in Newport Beach and Los Angeles. It was funny to fly into Orange County, see the LA Times version down there, then head up to the LA office and see a version with different stories.
                                  oh... yeah... well .. alrighty then...

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Sarabeth View Post
                                    Friend, the "editorial department" exists solely to create the excitement that SELLS PAPERS. Their job is to get LA's hearts beating faster, whatever it takes to do that...the truth is just something to be stepped over on the way to getting attention.
                                    Which has what, exactly, to do with whether or not they write stories about their advertisers?

                                    I'm not arguing that they write what sells papers. I'm merely telling you that most newsrooms would mutiny if told by the ad department who they could and couldn't cover.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      For anyone who has issues: DEAL.

                                      I am an editor with the L.A.Times. The reporter and the photographer were both at Thermal, and **I** pushed the story and **I** read it for accuracy and horsey details.

                                      You want to tell me that two men didn't die? You want to tell me that, when questioned, trainers didn't tell the reporter -- who has NEVER been to a horse show in his life but at least speaks Spanish, which **I** requested -- that it would cost $30,000 per horse for the six weeks to be there (c'mon! YOU do the math!!)? You want to tell me that the Hollywood elite and the political elite and the just exceptionally wealthy aren't at that show?!?!?

                                      You want to tell me that living conditions shouldn't be better for the people -- no matter what the nationality or ethnicity -- who look after our horses?!?!

                                      Didn't think so.

                                      The article pointed out that grooms are often given the option of staying in a motel and that they choose not to. Some were -- and are quoted -- as being fine with the "accommodations." But you know what? If the chicken ranch near me gets raided for crappy living conditions and if the park is routinely swept for people living in tents, then by DAMN, we should be looked at for expecting people to live in horse trailers in near-freezing temperatures and screw our cavalier attitude of, "oh, they are fine with it, they don't know any better."

                                      Smacks of Barbara Bush's "Oh, it's just like they're camping" crap after the Hurricane Katrina survivors were lodged in the Astrodome.

                                      You have an issue with the alleged liberal bias of the L.A. Times, go read a right-leaning paper. You have a problem with my being outraged over the preventable deaths -- did anyone ASK, in Spanish, if they knew how to operate the generator?? -- deal with me.
                                      Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Beezer: WORD. Thank you for your post and for your role in the publication of this article (and, actually, for your observations in the discussions about the deaths on earlier COTH threads).

                                        Erin: I understand and agree with the points that you are making on this thread. I'm not quite sure where you are going with the comparison to the coverage of David Rosenbaum's murder, though. I think a big part of what made David Rosenbaum's death such news was the way that he was treated by the first responders and hospital personel (who assumed that he was drunk, not the victim of a serious head injury). I think his death was newsworthy not just because of his public position but because of the circumstances surrounding it -- circumstances that raised important questions about social issues (medical care and subpar treatment based on assumptions). And I think that is the real parallel to the situation at Thermal: private tragedies become public ones when they force the rest of us to think about how society treats people perceived as being on it's fringes. --Jess

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Beezer View Post
                                          For anyone who has issues: DEAL.

                                          I am an editor with the L.A.Times. The reporter and the photographer were both at Thermal, and **I** pushed the story and **I** read it for accuracy and horsey details.

                                          You want to tell me that two men didn't die? You want to tell me that, when questioned, trainers didn't tell the reporter -- who has NEVER been to a horse show in his life but at least speaks Spanish, which **I** requested -- that it would cost $30,000 per horse for the six weeks to be there (c'mon! YOU do the math!!)? You want to tell me that the Hollywood elite and the political elite and the just exceptionally wealthy aren't at that show?!?!?

                                          You want to tell me that living conditions shouldn't be better for the people -- no matter what the nationality or ethnicity -- who look after our horses?!?!

                                          Didn't think so.

                                          The article pointed out that grooms are often given the option of staying in a motel and that they choose not to. Some were -- and are quoted -- as being fine with the "accommodations." But you know what? If the chicken ranch near me gets raided for crappy living conditions and if the park is routinely swept for people living in tents, then by DAMN, we should be looked at for expecting people to live in horse trailers in near-freezing temperatures and screw our cavalier attitude of, "oh, they are fine with it, they don't know any better."

                                          Smacks of Barbara Bush's "Oh, it's just like they're camping" crap after the Hurricane Katrina survivors were lodged in the Astrodome.

                                          You have an issue with the alleged liberal bias of the L.A. Times, go read a right-leaning paper. You have a problem with my being outraged over the preventable deaths -- did anyone ASK, in Spanish, if they knew how to operate the generator?? -- deal with me.
                                          I have no problem with the outrage... I just ... for once... want it to be directed in the right place. Common decency would dictate that whomever hired these two men... would have known that human beings do not live in horse trailers. Horses do not live in horse trailers. If the two men did not have the resource to get themselves to and from their workplace... then the person that HIRED them ... in MY opinion... should have seen to it... that they had a warm bed to sleep in. for all anyone knows... the rich and famous clients had no idea where the grooms were sleeping... I bet on that.

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