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Great LA Times article on grooms' working conditions at Thermal

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  • Fish, do you realize the situation you are describing sounds exactly like the first half of Gone With the Wind? Seriously, I love the movie but, really, the idyllic setting you described invoked so many memories of the movie/book I had to dig up the book and re-read my favorite parts before going to sleep. And I had to keep reminding myself, as I always do, that the South comes across as better than the North in everyway (in that book and other histories of the Civil War) but for the slavery and that is a big but for. By the way I believe there is honor in the types of actions you describe your grandfather as taking. All I am saying is it is hard to win an argument if you tell stories that invoke images of the antebellum south. Unless, of course, you can write like Margaret Mitchell.

    There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called the Old South. Here in this pretty world, Gallantry took its last bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their Ladies Fair, of Master and of Slave. Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a Civilization gone with the wind...


    On a different note that I am sure will annoy everyone I don’t understand why everyone says two men died in a truck. One of them was 21. Do you know how young that is? At that age I was a senior in college and was damm lucky my stupid decisions did not result in my death and probably a lawsuit. Also, before anyone attacks, I am not saying 21 is not old enough to make your own decisions. I just think that it is barely old enough. But I am much older now.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by soma12345 View Post


      On a different note that I am sure will annoy everyone I don’t understand why everyone says two men died in a truck. One of them was 21. Do you know how young that is? At that age I was a senior in college and was damm lucky my stupid decisions did not result in my death and probably a lawsuit. Also, before anyone attacks, I am not saying 21 is not old enough to make your own decisions. I just think that it is barely old enough. But I am much older now.
      according to justridin... the two males that died were ... uh..."boys". Ya know... they were part of ' the boys" faction out there in Thermal. apparently... an owner/trainer/employer graciously let the 'boys" sleep in their horse trailer. According to a COTH poster ( not justridin)... the "boys" were instructed... DO NOT use the space heater to keep warm while you sleep in my horse trailer... because it may kill you...

      Comment


      • A lot of shows do great charity work. In fact The CPHA Foundation, "a charitable organization for California’s professional horsemen, set up a designated fund to provide financial assistance for the three ingate workers injured in a car accident near the Thermal show grounds."

        Devon benefits the Bryn Mawr Hospital

        Columbia Classic benefits the Howard community college

        Washington benefits many local charities

        MiddleBurg benefits the Equestrian AIDS foundation and food and friends

        Swan Lake has donated and helped raise money for CANTER Mid Atlantic.

        Look at "Dutch Pete" and Kimberden and the many show barns that helped so incredibley in the Gulf Coast after Katrina.

        There are a lot of generous and kind people in the Hunter/Jumper world...in fact there are many generous shows and businesses...and I wonder what the overall comparison is to the "outside" business world...
        "All life is precious"
        Sophie Scholl

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Moesha View Post
          A lot of shows do great charity work. In fact The CPHA Foundation, "a charitable organization for California’s professional horsemen, set up a designated fund to provide financial assistance for the three ingate workers injured in a car accident near the Thermal show grounds."

          <Hm, at the Thermal HITS - the CPHA responded...>

          Devon benefits the Bryn Mawr Hospital

          Columbia Classic benefits the Howard community college

          Washington benefits many local charities

          MiddleBurg benefits the Equestrian AIDS foundation and food and friends

          Swan Lake has donated and helped raise money for CANTER Mid Atlantic.

          Look at "Dutch Pete" and Kimberden and the many show barns that helped so incredibley in the Gulf Coast after Katrina.

          There are a lot of generous and kind people in the Hunter/Jumper world...in fact there are many generous shows and businesses...and I wonder what the overall comparison is to the "outside" business world...
          good for you to note the good examples. The question is where is the sport going? This is the biggest state of the art facility, the biggest purpose built show center, and it's across the street from one of the locations sited in the article.

          I've had some broader business exposure, and will say there is greed and generosity, kindness and cruelty, honesty and sleaze- side by side, in every walk of life. We all get to choose. And rarely is it a choice of what place we want to be, or what activity- the way we act is what we get to choose.

          god bless those who give. I knew Dennis as a younger [partying man, and he's grown into a very kind fellow indeed.

          I also know that it takes a particular kind of attention and perseverence to help point the direction of an industry, or even an association. Ever work in a committee?

          justridin'

          "group decision making involves everyone stating their objections and staring at each other with daggers until they all agree what cannot be left out".. Anon

          Comment


          • While I know a lot of the big sports franchises do do a lot of good work, and many professional athletes are also great philanthropists.

            How many "new" stadiums at tax payers dollars are constructed in cities, and many times in neighborhoods that have many struggling and impoverished residents? How many old stadiums are simply abandoned while so much government spending and emphasis goes into a new home for this baseball team or that foot ball team?

            How many of the ten dollar sodas or expensive ticket fees go into directly helping the poor and even homeless within earshot of the cheering fans..who many times drive into the city and out with a disdain for the "inner city." I think the thread about the Washington International Horse Show, definitely showed some of "suburbias" views on city residents.

            All sports have evolved with better technology and higher standards. Streamlining and state-of-the-art facilities are normal progessions for sports. The horse show world should not try to avoid such things.

            I think that there is a lot of selfless work done by many riders, trainers, families, farms, shows, etc. I don't see such "required" calls on other sports and areas of society to give back...certainly they do but the horse show world does as well.
            "All life is precious"
            Sophie Scholl

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            • Moesha...as usual, I heart you!

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              • A perfect example of wealth amid poverty is my own school! It's stuck in the middle of a lower-class Santa Ana suburb. Our brand new multi million dollar gym looks out over the backyards of hard-working Hispanic families who could only dream of sending their childred to a school so opulent. And the kids who go to my school (some, at least) can only talk about how the school should bulldoze a few dozen of those houses so they can have a bigger parking lot. Now, my school does give back a ton to the community...it's a Catholic school, so it's based off giving back. But it's just a reminder of how much more we are seeing this opulence and abundance right next door to people who slave away at minimum wage to put food on the table and pay the rent while "the people next door" often pretend not to notice. If Thermal is going to be among these slums, why not give back to their "neighbors" as many other shows do. I would feel much better about paying all that money to show if I knew some of it were going to a good cause.
                Equestrianism
                Photography

                Comment


                • I really like the "giving nature" that this thread has brought out in folks!

                  However, *jumper* you state that you wouldn't mind paying all that money for showing if you knew some of it was going to a good cause. This absolutely amazes me.

                  What is stopping you. . you personally . . from taking that money and finding a local charity that could use the help and giving them the money yourself???? It's so much easier to say that someone else should be giving isn't it? You have a choice, give your show dollars to a charity. Simple. One phone call, write a check, lick a stamp and voila, good deed for the day done. No guilt over showing and spending all that money.

                  You have absolutely no idea, none whatsover what charity or charities that TS may support with the money that he makes from the shows. Perhaps he is one of those folks that doesn't like to advertise their philanthropic donations for the public pat on the back.

                  Many of you are assuming that no money is going to help the community. You are assuming that it is someone else's responsibility to give so you can feel better about showing and spending.

                  Once again, check, envelope, stamp, lick and go!
                  Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    Originally posted by *jumper* View Post
                    A perfect example of wealth amid poverty is my own school! It's stuck in the middle of a lower-class Santa Ana suburb. Our brand new multi million dollar gym looks out over the backyards of hard-working Hispanic families who could only dream of sending their childred to a school so opulent. And the kids who go to my school (some, at least) can only talk about how the school should bulldoze a few dozen of those houses so they can have a bigger parking lot. Now, my school does give back a ton to the community...it's a Catholic school, so it's based off giving back. But it's just a reminder of how much more we are seeing this opulence and abundance right next door to people who slave away at minimum wage to put food on the table and pay the rent while "the people next door" often pretend not to notice. If Thermal is going to be among these slums, why not give back to their "neighbors" as many other shows do. I would feel much better about paying all that money to show if I knew some of it were going to a good cause.
                    As a totally unrelated aside, when your school was first built, the surrounding neighborhood was not the slummy one it is now.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Brookes View Post
                      I really like the "giving nature" that this thread has brought out in folks!

                      However, *jumper* you state that you wouldn't mind paying all that money for showing if you knew some of it was going to a good cause. This absolutely amazes me.

                      What is stopping you. . you personally . . from taking that money and finding a local charity that could use the help and giving them the money yourself???? It's so much easier to say that someone else should be giving isn't it? You have a choice, give your show dollars to a charity. Simple. One phone call, write a check, lick a stamp and voila, good deed for the day done. No guilt over showing and spending all that money.

                      You have absolutely no idea, none whatsover what charity or charities that TS may support with the money that he makes from the shows. Perhaps he is one of those folks that doesn't like to advertise their philanthropic donations for the public pat on the back.

                      Many of you are assuming that no money is going to help the community. You are assuming that it is someone else's responsibility to give so you can feel better about showing and spending.

                      Once again, check, envelope, stamp, lick and go!
                      But I do do a lot for charities...I'm only 16 so I don't have a whole lot of money to give but I do what I can. I just donated two bags full of stuff for homeless people last week. And my parents give a alot of money to charities each year. What I meant that whether or not some of the money I spend for shows goes to charity, it would certainly make me feel better if some of it did. My parents give a lot more money to charities and charitable causes each year than they spend on shows. And I try my best to do what I can to help those in need, the sick, elderly, etc. And there is no doubt in my mind that TS gives a ton to charity as well. I just read an article about him in an old Show Circuit, and he's a great guy. I simply meant that when paying for those shows, *I* would feel good to know some was going to charity (and it very well may be!!! I don't know either way...just saying that if it is or was or will be, I would like that very much-I think of it as just one more way to give back by simply doing something I love). I probably wasn't very clear in my original post, but that's how I feel.
                      Equestrianism
                      Photography

                      Comment


                      • In a way he is "giving back" as think about how much those properties have increased in value due to their location next to the circuit.

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                        • those trailer parks would love to have us...

                          Originally posted by eec View Post
                          In a way he is "giving back" as think about how much those properties have increased in value due to their location next to the circuit.
                          If you want to think of a giant megalopolis company store as progress. some of you touted the shows you LOVE to go to. Lemme ask if that includes being at a 12 arena free for all with modest and expensive consideration to exhibitors and workers?

                          Some of my favorite shows of all time include armies of volunteers, who are there because they are helping the beneficiary of the show. Devon, Upperville, a little one in the middle of summer called Las Amigas in Rolling Hills Estates, California. The manager is a friend, and is paid well, but that is a show where there are around 50 parents in blue checked shirts asking if everything is all right.

                          The issue is we don't have any say in who gets the show dates, and if a well bankrolled show manager wants to sell his company to investors, move his show to a facility he builds, and spread it out all over and charge for every little thing- what can we do?

                          In any business there's something called barriers to entry. In show management, you have to do something pretty heinous to lose a date- I can't recall it happening. And never mind having any say about how the show grows.

                          An example I like for progress- using the example of big sports and stadiums- ONE STADIUM- is Syracuse. What happened out in the desert is a "dumbing down", almost impossible scale, but what are you gonna do, because they own the dates.

                          I'm just a responsible growth guy. Once you build it, you can't go oops and unbuild it. What's the issue with a little higher quality, like we used to have at Empire Polo Club- but no, let's change, hurry up, slam us in there, now because we make a lot of money right now- new location...

                          Indio is growing just fine. Many would say too rapidly- it remains to be seen if the Palm Springs aquifer can support the population explosion over the next ten years. But Indio - It has a city, and infrastructure, but it's 12 or so miles away. Thermal is raw- and doesn't have any infrastructure to speak of. One of the reservations from the article is across the street from the site, and there are several trailer parks with no water and electricity in the thriving metropolis that is thermal. The lease goes to the county of Riverside-
                          was there any $$ designated to help thermal's woes?

                          It's one of those questions that might have gotten asked in a different system.

                          Individually, I have little doubt about the honor and generosity of horsepeople. Collectively, well, I'm still waiting for our esteemed leaders to say "the deaths d&%n well don't have to happen again, and the shows should grow responsibly."

                          Well the tooth fairy is a good friend of mine, and oops I missed my meds, so I'm so confused right now...

                          time to go back to
                          justridin'

                          Comment


                          • justridin' - blue checked shirts = Portuguese Bend; navy polo shirts = Las Amigas ; but you have to be pretty local to catch that one

                            And I get your drift about the non-generic (I think that's the word?) shows. Las Amigas is a better show with professional management, but the flavor still remains b/c of the volunteers. Great prizes and, as my trainer says, they just do things right. Our barn will be doing selected A shows for the rest of this year--Las Amigas and Flintridge are both on the list. We tend to select the county shows we go to based on the management (and the climate).

                            Not that the big, multi-ring shows aren't fun to be a part of, but it's not my pick for a steady diet. Good thing since I couldn't afford them as a steady diet anyway.
                            The Evil Chem Prof

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by IsolaBella09 View Post
                              alright....everybody just needs to relax.
                              I agree with xegeba's last post but this is sooo out of control.
                              Yes trainers should pay and accomodate their groom's housing, but do you really think that is going to happen? Do you know how many trainers/employers would rather have their grooms stay in their trailers than put them up in a hotel for a night. Hundreds! Thousands! The thought behind this is that the employers can just as easily find another illegal immigrant to work for them as they found their previous one. Yes, the men should not have had to sleep in the trailer and it is a terrible thing gone wrong. There are soooo many people in this industry that could care less about their grooms. They think (and in most cases) "oh! i'm white. i'm rich. i'm educated. i am the superior race. i don't have to treat my grooms with respect. i don't have to do anything for them and in return they do so much for me and my horses. Yes there are tons of illegal grooms who are willing to do anything for their job just to be able to get payed for that week. Because they know if they don't someone else will have their job the next week.

                              Hello? I obviously don't know the trainers you do! GOOD grooms are very much valued in my neck of the woods. The trainers do whatever they can to KEEP these valued grooms. The clients pay so that their horses have these wonderful grooms. (Bad grooms, no matter what ethnic background/nationality should be replaced, so long as it's not just a situation on untrained.)
                              \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

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