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Let's start fresh: a new topic to discuss!

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  • Let's start fresh: a new topic to discuss!

    What would judges tend to think of an equitation horse in a full bridle, with a rider holding the reins in the Fillis fashion? Would it be penalized, or recognized for what it is?

  • #2
    You might want to start by READING THE RULES.
    Hands. Hands should be over and in front of horse’s withers, knuckles thirty degrees
    inside the vertical, hands slightly apart and making a straight line from horse’s mouth to
    rider’s elbow. Bight of reins may fall on either side. However, all reins must be picked up at
    the same time. When using two reins, the snaffle rein should be on the outside while the
    curb rein is on the inside.
    .
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Janet View Post
      You might want to start by READING THE RULES.
      Janet, you're so crazy.

      Comment


      • #4
        From EQ109:

        2. Tack. Regulation snaffles, pelhams and full bridles, all with cavesson nose bands, are recommended. A judge at his own discretion can penalize a horse with nonconventional types of bits or nose bands. Boots and conservative colored bandages are permitted. Type of saddle is optional. Martingales are permitted in classes over obstacles and in the jumping phase of classes requiring both jumping and flat work. Changing of bits between phases is permissible.
        ---
        They're small hearts.

        Comment


        • #5
          See, learn something new all the time on here..

          What the heck is Fillis style when holding 2 sets of reins?

          Full bridles? That I see occasionally and there seems no problem as far as judging goes.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

          Comment


          • #6
            What is Fillis style?

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Excuse me. I hadn't reviewed my rule book for a while and didn't recall it totally EXCLUDED any other hold...however, it does beg the question: WHY?

              The fillis hold is where the snaffle rein runs through the top of the hand and out through the bottom, and the curb rein runs from the bottom of the hand and out through the top. It allows for a more direct and sensitive use of each rein.

              Comment


              • #8
                http://www.imeha.org/images/dlbreinnocross.jpg

                This was the closest thing to a picture that I could find.
                ---
                They're small hearts.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Thank you for posting that, Trixie...I was just going to go try to find a photo or drawing to post. You beat me to it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When using two reins, the snaffle rein should be on the outside while the curb rein is on the inside
                    Does this mean that you have the bight of the snaffle reins on the outside, the bight of the curb on the inside? Or is this just referring to the curb rein goes under the snaffle rein by virtue of holding the curb rein a finger higher up than the snaffle rein?

                    Because the first, that would mean you'd be swapping the bights and would have a bight on both sides, and changing that would just be .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's the one I found: http://www.pointernet.pds.hu/lovagla...000000969.html

                      Thanks Ludgar, I appreciate the post of something new. Once I saw it I realized I have seen it - possibly in European hands but not really sure, never knew the name.
                      EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        No, it doesn't have anything to do with the bight. The inside/outside reference you quoted is talking about the commonly seen hold which is where the snaffle rein is on bottom (outside) and the curb above it (inside).

                        Refer to Trixie's posted drawing for clarification of the Fillis hold.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Why? Because it is intended for flatwork, not jumping. How are you going to keep the right hand lined up on top of the left hand over the top of the fence,without catching the horse in th mouth?
                          Janet

                          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by dags View Post
                            Here's the one I found: http://www.pointernet.pds.hu/lovagla...000000969.html

                            Thanks Ludgar, I appreciate the post of something new. Once I saw it I realized I have seen it - possibly in European hands but not really sure, never knew the name.
                            Egads! Reading that article makes even me wonder who would ever want to use the Fillis hold! I have found it very useful, even as an alternative way of holding two sets of reins on a Pessoa bit, but as a hold for greater sensitivity, not greater power. (It also helps a rider whose tendency is to choke up on the curb rein, provided the snaffle rein is on top when held between thumb and forefinger.) Of course, even the best things can be abused. Perhaps the finest instruments especially so.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Janet View Post
                              Why? Because it is intended for flatwork, not jumping. How are you going to keep the right hand lined up on top of the left hand over the top of the fence,without catching the horse in th mouth?
                              The hands are still held side by side on each side of the neck. The only difference is that the snaffle rein enters the hand from the top...like using a driving rein.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I just think it would be a very odd way to use the wrists, but it's clear the action would be more "to the point" - the extreme of each degree essentially releases the other rein, so it's either all snaffle or all curb when put to full effect. I like the 3 ring because of the space between the snaffle and curb- actually, I guess it's the gag ring, because it let's you play with the leverage more distinctly, but there are few times when I'd want all gag and no snaffle, and even fewer when I'd want all curb.

                                Didn't read the article behind my link too closely, but I do agree we'd probably see even more over-flexing/behind the bit with that rein set up over fences. I already see too many choked up curb reins with snaffle rein flopping in the wind.
                                EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                  How are you going to keep the right hand lined up on top of the left hand over the top of the fence,without catching the horse in th mouth?
                                  I don't get this . . . why don't I get this? must be missing something?
                                  EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Oh, I did that riding Arabs and Saddlebreds a few times but did not work that well for me on most of them. I would think that going over jumps, it would be easier to protect the horse from any accidental and unintended overuse of the curb if you used the more conventional hold with the curb rein on top. But I never tried it, never wanted to.

                                    And here I thought that Fillis was just a style of stirrup iron. Who knew?
                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      I find it a very small action in the wrists, more in the fingers. Kind of like milking a goat (no laughing here, I don't know how else to describe it) with the thumb and forefinger, and simply closing the pinky tighter to apply more curb rein. I have not found it helpful at all in the case of a horse who seriously wanted to bear down/get behind the bit. But then, that's a case for riding strongly forward and engaging the haunches.

                                      Interesting to experiment with in a Pelham as well...

                                      But it's admittedly not a hold I would want to use with a crest release. Definitely with a following hand. And also, it might not present as attractive a straight line from bit to elbow. Perhaps I've just answered my own question of why...

                                      It's been fun to talk about, though, hasn't it?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Interestigly enough, until fairly recently I can assure you that the rule book stated that style of rein holding was the choice of the rider. So this is not such an ignorant question. Until that change one could hold the curb on the outside without penalty in the EQ( as recently as 10 years ago). Years ago it was very clear in the book that the snaffle had to be on the outside, complete with drawings. At some point they took it out with many being unaware of that deletion including some officials. But it is back in there now.
                                        As far as the full bridle, there is probably nothing that could be considered more traditional than that! Though not frequently seen anymore in the hunters ( sometimes in the Side Saddle which IMO looks pretty cool!) a judge would be hard pressed to call it non traditional tack. I admit that some of the younger officials may scratch their heads about it perhaps never seeing one on a hunter.
                                        www.midatlanticeq.com
                                        Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
                                        November 11-13, 2016

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