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Do you think they drugged this pony?

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  • Do you think they drugged this pony?

    I went to look at pony a couple of times recently. I had a very, very bad accident months ago and have been extremely timid since I came back to riding about a month ago. When I have looked at this pony, he has been sweaty around his ears and a round spot about 3 inches in diameter on his withers, and just behind his elbows. (Though, to be fair, he hasn't been body-clipped in some time and has a rather thick, hairy coat currently, his stall faces West, both days have been in the mid-eighties, and I've gone out in the afternoon around 3) He seems very calm when you ride him, doesn't try and spook or anything bad. He is a kick-on horse, and I have seen a video of him where the girl that owns him currently is riding him and wearing spurs, so... And, yesterday, when I went, he was periodically shaking his head from the flies that were bothering him (and I did see flies). However, what kind of makes me worry, is that yesterday when I rode him, a few minutes after I got on him, they (the girl and the trainer) told me to let him stop because he was... "dangling" (as they put it), and they thought he needed to pee. He didin't go, so after a minute they let me go on and ride him, during which he seemed fine. As far as I know, once I got to working him, he put it away, and I didn't see anything when I got off and was grooming him and stuff for half an hour.
    I'm scared though, because he SEEMS like the perfect fit, like a horse that I could FINALLY do anything with and not be afraid, but if they're drugging him with Ace or something else along that line... I hate to even think about it. The horse that wrecked my confidence, when he took off over a 3' oxer (and I've never even done a crossrail!), and I broke my arm VERY badly, I think he could have been drugged. When I got there, he was staring into space, with his eyes glazed over, not even blinking, moving his head, or anything. When I got on him, he would NOT move, and when he did, he was wandering around like a drunk. Then, after about 20 mins.-1/2 hour, he suddenly perked up, and was getting very forward. Then he just got worse about it when I tried to bring him down, and got completely out of control.
    The pony was blinking, and kind of chomped on his bit when they tightened the girth, and I could get him moving out with a few kicks (sans spurs), and he seemed to ride like a normal horse, but I just don't know what to think. I don't currently have a trainer because I cannot find anyone in my area that I trust. (It's a long story that I cannot reveal here, but there is a very good reason for this-- it's not just a personal "uppity" thing)
    PLEASE try and help me out here. I do not want to get hurt on a horse again. I love them and couldn't imagine my life without them. Riding this pony made my life fun again, and I would love to have him for my own so that I always felt that way-- happy. If anyone would care to see the video of how he behaves when ridden, PM me so my thread doesn't get kicked off of here.
    Last edited by Sparkling_Sunset; Sep. 20, 2009, 07:14 PM.

  • #2
    Two things:

    --sometimes one of the first signs of Cushing's is odd sweating.

    --insist on riding the pony when you schedule a PPE, and announce that you are having blood drawn for a drug screen then, and only then.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

    Comment


    • #3
      Did you ask them if he'd had ace recently?
      You can always have a PPE vet draw blood for a blood test and hold it "just in case." Is this the Palomino?

      Comment


      • #4
        If you think he is drugged take a vet or friend who is able to draw blood and draw blood for a drug screen the next time you ride him and do not tell them in advance that you are planning to draw blood. BUT you have to draw blood on a day you are trying him not on the day you say he is being vetted because often if they are drugging him, he won't be drugged that day. Good luck on your search

        And if they won't let you draw blood RUN away!

        Comment


        • #5
          No. Nor do I think the other horse was drugged. Sedatives do not work that way....they wear off gradually, not all of a sudden making the horse go from kicking quiet to crazy and bolting.

          However, your best bet, if you are concerned, is a drug screen. Most tranqs/sedatives can still easily be seen in the system, even if they were given a couple days prior. Good luck in your search.

          Comment


          • #6
            Is it possible to take the horse on trial? While some sellers do drug the animals, I think it is much more common, if it is a hot horse, to lunge it or ride it quite a bit before the seller gets there. The fact that the horse exhibited sweat marks where the bridle and girth go would make me more suspicious of this that drugging so I would ask some questions about when the horse was last worked and for how long. Unfortunately, there is no good way to detect this, however, sometimes going back to look at the horse early in the morning helps.

            If you do want to buy the horse, I agree you should ride it the day of the vetting, then have the vet pull blood. The contract should have a contigency regarding the blood work.
            Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.
            Serious Leigh: it sounds like her drama llama should be an old schoolmaster by now.

            Comment


            • #7
              Nope. No one that has given the horse some ace is going to stop you while you are on the horse because it looks like it needs to pee. You can't see it dangling from up there, so why would they call attention to it if they had something to hide?
              Sweat marks are consistant with it being ridden before you got there, which is almost standard. The fact that it had marks though, instead of being wet from a full bath, says to me they didn't work it very long.
              when he took off over a 3' oxer (and I've never even done a crossrail!),
              This is likely the cause of your prior accident, not drugs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CBoylen View Post
                Nope. No one that has given the horse some ace is going to stop you while you are on the horse because it looks like it needs to pee. You can't see it dangling from up there, so why would they call attention to it if they had something to hide?
                LOL, I was thinking the same thing. If he'd been aced, they wouldn't TELL her he was dropped!

                But then I have no idea, I figured better be safe (with the testing) than sorry.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JA View Post
                  If you think he is drugged take a vet or friend who is able to draw blood and draw blood for a drug screen the next time you ride him and do not tell them in advance that you are planning to draw blood. BUT you have to draw blood on a day you are trying him not on the day you say he is being vetted because often if they are drugging him, he won't be drugged that day. Good luck on your search

                  And if they won't let you draw blood RUN away!
                  Personally, as a seller, no one but the VET will be drawing blood on any of my horses.
                  FYI: If you bring anyone but the vet to draw blood you will likely get refused.
                  If you really like this pony PPE, I am concerned about the long hair this time of year, and cushings will cause some of the things you have described including the sweating.

                  Good luck

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                    LOL, I was thinking the same thing. If he'd been aced, they wouldn't TELL her he was dropped!
                    Not to derail the thread but why?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Did you ask them if he'd had ace recently?
                      if he had been aced they would not have told her

                      My horse sweats at 70 degrees, so that aspect does not bother me. He also dangles for no obvious reason except that he can

                      I think , if all else is good, go for another trial and do draw blood unannounced for testing. I am not sure of the ethics of doing so outside a vet exam, so if you are at that point, schedule the vet exam the same day or within 24 hours of ride, Drug evidence will still be present.

                      It is understandable for you to be apprehensive due to recent bad events, but try not to read far to much into it. Are you working with a professional who can give you an evaluation. A trusted , more experienced rider might also be able to screen the pony with you in mind.
                      _\\]
                      -- * > hoopoe
                      Procrastinate NOW
                      Introverted Since 1957

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Come Shine View Post
                        Not to derail the thread but why?
                        Because they tend to drop when they've been sedated... so if they were trying to ace him without her knowing, why would they call attention to something like that?
                        "People ask me 'will I remember them if I make it'. I ask them 'will you remember me if I don't?'"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Milocalwinnings View Post
                          Because they tend to drop when they've been sedated... so if they were trying to ace him without her knowing, why would they call attention to something like that?
                          Tx! Learn something new about boys every day.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It could be a case of the nerves. As you've described, you're very timid after a bad experience and injury. Many times people can then over-analyze small normal things and "borrow worry" even if there isn't any and second guess a lot of stuff.
                            Horses all do unexpected things, sometimes out of the blue and sometimes due to something we did and didn't realize at the time. The horse that caused the previous injury was probably not drugged either, but hindsight after a scary incident can leave many second guessing.
                            This isn't abnormal behavior after a bad fall for many folks.
                            If it would ease your worries, schedule the PPE *with* a third ride before the PPE. And then have blood drawn during the PPE.
                            Do be aware there's a chance that if you keep shopping due to worries he might have been drugged, it's highly likely you will see what you consider suspicious behavior in every horse you try after this anyways. Not saying this has to be the one, but am gently saying that this might be more psychological than you think due to your current (and understandable)nerves.
                            You jump in the saddle,
                            Hold onto the bridle!
                            Jump in the line!
                            ...Belefonte

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Make an appointment to ride the horse again and arrange for a vet to do the PPE on sited right afterwards. You do not need to explain what the PPE will entail in advance. Discuss your concerns with the vet in advance so HE is the one who says he is pulling blood samples. We've found that once the owners learn a blood sample will be taken, all sorts of things may come out (oh, he had some bute yesterday....) You want one sample sent for analysis of any analgesics, antiinflammatories, sedatives, etc immediately. The other sample is to ensure that the horse does not have Cushings and to establish normal blood values (my mare had a bad infestation of strongyles in her gut and an abnormally low number of red blood cells that left her with no energy - only resolved with a Powerpac treatment). Not their vet, a vet of your choosing. Get xrays of all hooves in case the Cushings is already causing a possible rotation that is being covered with analgesics. The vet makes the determination of whether the horse passes the PPE, and that includes no drugs on board. Although these can be expensive, trying to keep an unfit horse fit is even more expensive and your peace of mind is worth every penny. Good luck.
                              pace, path, balance, impulsion and ??

                              Don't panic! Ralph Leroy Hill

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Why not just ask them? If your that worried you should keep looking. Try to trust your gut. Also if you go back again try to get 30 minutes earlier then they would not have time to do it.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Take him on trial. I've never bought anything I didn't bring home and try on my own for awhile. He may be just as lovely and quiet at your place as he is at theirs. Or he might be a fire breathing dragon. Just remember that they might not be on their A game in a strange place, so you have to give them the benefit of the doubt to a certain extent. You should be able to tell what behavior is from unfamiliar-place-nerves and what is constant though.

                                  Good luck, and whichever way you go make sure you have a trusted vet do a PPE. Does sound a lot like cushings.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Come Shine View Post
                                    Not to derail the thread but why?
                                    Because dropping is a side effect of Ace. Something I know because that (in a higher dose) is what my vet uses when she cleans sheaths, and I asked her... wow, if that's a side effect, how do they ride all those h/j horses on ace all the time? She said a lot of them drop, some don't, people just ride anyway.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I think asking them if you can have a vet pull blood will give you a good idea.

                                      If they say "sure but he can't be ridden if he gets blood drawn" then you pretty much have your answer!

                                      Even if you wern't planning on doing a PPE the notion of it will probably show what they're doing.. which may be nothing!

                                      If they say "oh sure! You can do it next time you come out to try him" then he's prolly not being drugged and you can go and say the vet had to reschedule and see if he's hyper or the same.
                                      http://www.clarkdesigngrouparchitects.com/index.html - Lets build your dream barn

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        If he passes the pp and is not drugged, be careful to find out what he is being fed and how much turn out he is getting. Horses can have very different personalities when fed new foods or with changes in turn out. Since you like the personality that he is showing now, make any changes very, very, slowly.

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