• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Bit Help-Got a leaning hunter

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bit Help-Got a leaning hunter

    I have a really solid, strong athletic horse. He is a tank. He gets really heavy and flattens out two strides out from a fence-- and when he lands after a line I can barely lift him up to get some control, and I'm not a novice. He gets stuper heavy and feels like he is running. The people who owned him before me rode him in a gag and I refuse to do that seeing as he is a hunter.

    I am trying all different kinds of less harsh bits and im looking for suggestions?

    I have ridden him in an elevator- works well but not a bit I want to use consistantly, loose ring- not enough, double twisted wire-got really heavy, slow twist- good to hack in but not jump and just recently the broken segunda but I am concerned that is a little harsh of a bit.
    ______________________________

  • #2
    Maybe try a Waterford? It's my favorite bit.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've got one like that.. the slow twist works well on the flat. We just keep schooling "lighter lighter lighter" on the flat in hopes that he'll get it...
      Rural Property Specialist
      Keller Williams Realtors

      TexasEquestrianProperties.com
      Email Me for Horse Property!

      Comment


      • #4
        More leg??? bring him "up" more a couple strides before the fence...
        I know he's a hunter but he shouldn't be on his forehand either...
        A Waterford might help too though (as already mentioned) as it doesn't support them in any way if they start leaning...
        Good luck
        Proudly living in my "let's save the world bubble"!

        Comment


        • #5
          My best answer is..... Its not a bit problem. Its a schooling problem. Your bit may be exacerbating the problem, but generally heavy horses need to be schooled to be lighter. Sorry if that doesnt really help you and your horse!

          ETA

          In experience, a three ring elevator on a truly heavy horse will cause them to often times curl behind the bit. (Just in my experience)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HunterJumperLuv View Post
            My best answer is..... Its not a bit problem. Its a schooling problem. Your bit may be exacerbating the problem, but generally heavy horses need to be schooled to be lighter. Sorry if that doesnt really help you and your horse!
            That's what I was thinking... Per my personal experience... they need to be schooled to become lighter.. for me, the trick was tons a dressage work to make her get off her forehand and use her hind end...
            This was for a mare that was ridden (and pulling like a freight train) in a 3 ring elevator waterford
            And after the right schooling... ridden in a happy mouth snaffle...
            Proudly living in my "let's save the world bubble"!

            Comment


            • #7
              FLAT WORK !!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Jointed raised port.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kitsunegari View Post
                  Jointed raised port.
                  2nd that
                  www.PinehurstStables.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HunterJumperLuv View Post
                    My best answer is..... Its not a bit problem. Its a schooling problem. Your bit may be exacerbating the problem, but generally heavy horses need to be schooled to be lighter. Sorry if that doesnt really help you and your horse!

                    ETA

                    In experience, a three ring elevator on a truly heavy horse will cause them to often times curl behind the bit. (Just in my experience)
                    Obviously it's a schooling problem... but if he's really leaning, and a big horse in some cases a stronger bit is needed unless your super amazon women, or a strong man. I'm really strong for my size.. but who wants something pulling on you all the time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would work on a variety of exrecises, I would use landing and takeoff poles to help him to rock back, gymnastics with the distances set slightly short to again encourage him to rock back. I would set a 5 or 6 stride line, jump in, halt, make him wait then trot out. Repeat several times then jump in and ask him to trot (not halt and trot) out, then jump in and ask him to shorten and add. Being a progressive exrecise helps the horse to understand. Also I like to jump into a line then circle out between the jumps and rebalance then proceed to second jump etc. Don't just go to the fence and jump, use things to help him learn to rebalance.
                      www.shawneeacres.net

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I ride my freight train in a mikmar straight bar pellham...works wonders!!
                        "to each his own..."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Mikmar bits are awesome. I was also going to suggest a pelham. We ride over fences and school in the pelham, and swap to a D ring french link for the hack. The pelham is a rubber mullen mouth, and I ride with the chain loose. I also try to loop the curb rein at her. It's there to get her attention when needed. But the bit change really got her attention and made a HUGE difference. She went from pulling and fighting to supple, respectful and rateable in one ride.Freakin awesome.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I second the elevator, then after mine got light we switched to a segunda. Love it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Third the jointed raised port. Just what the doctor ordered for this type of issue - keeps the horse light in front, and saves the horses mouth from any pulling. You probably won't need it forever, once he gets used to staying light, he'll do it in a regular bit as well. You may want to try the Mikmar D bit since you can show in it. If that doesn't work, Jay Shuttleworth makes some great ones for this issue.
                              Trinity Farm LLC
                              Quality hunters and jumpers at Midwest prices
                              Like us on Facebook:
                              https://www.facebook.com/TrinityFarmLLC

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by HunterJumperLuv View Post
                                My best answer is..... Its not a bit problem. Its a schooling problem. Your bit may be exacerbating the problem, but generally heavy horses need to be schooled to be lighter. Sorry if that doesnt really help you and your horse!

                                ETA

                                In experience, a three ring elevator on a truly heavy horse will cause them to often times curl behind the bit. (Just in my experience)
                                echo that flat work ------- he cant do in the air if he cant do it on the ground

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I can relate

                                  I have a 4 yo homebred that I thought was a natural born leaner. She's half Holsteiner and Dutch/TB.
                                  I swore she was born heavy... onlybecause she hasn't learned how to carry herself, let alone me.
                                  She is a wonderful and eager jumper, but we have stopped jumping because....she was running thru the jump, and strung out at the canter. Again, hasn't learned how to carry herself so she leans and "runs". She loves to jump..the ears tell the story, but it's whoa time for that.

                                  SO, we are doing dressage work and I am floored at what we have acomplished in such little time. I totally agree with the others ...it's a schooling problem that has been a learned response.

                                  Lateral work. Period.

                                  Can you imagine...I have tried everything from a mild snaffle to a segunda, and more recently a waterford..ON A 4 YO!!! This is after having her started by a pro, and other pro advice that saw her, and rode her.
                                  A 4 year old that was started a year ago. I bred and raised this foal from day one.
                                  I said "this is totally wrong".

                                  My former dressage trainer took 20 MINUTES to accomplish soft/light/round.
                                  What I spent a hell of a lot of money to NOT get accomplished, thru the hunter/jumper route. A lot of H/J trainers here in the US are not well versed in basic dressage principles, and they need to be IMO. Side reins and draw reins have to come off eventually, and the holes will be apparent.

                                  Now we are on the right path to self carraige.
                                  Then we will jump eventually.

                                  But lots more lateral work ahead. At least a year.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I have had several horses like that in my life. The OTTB's like to do that. It has nothing to do with the bit, although a mikmar is a great bit. It all has to do with your leg. You have to bump him up off your hand. A waterford will not stop leaning, it stops horses from grabbing the bit. They not only can lean on a waterford, you may have no breaks. Try a 2 or 3 ring, or even a gag, it will get him off his forehand. Make sure to back it up with a lot of leg. You have to sit him on his haunches. Maybe get a trainer on him a couple of times. A few pro rides will go a long way.
                                    "Riding is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down, like a game of solitaire. It's a great passion." Ralph Waldo Emerson

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Thanks to everyone. We've been doing a lot of pole work and flatting to try to get him off of my hand. It seems to be improving but thanks for all of the advice!!!!!
                                      ______________________________

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Underdog View Post
                                        I have a 4 yo homebred that I thought was a natural born leaner. She's half Holsteiner and Dutch/TB.
                                        I swore she was born heavy... onlybecause she hasn't learned how to carry herself, let alone me.
                                        She is a wonderful and eager jumper, but we have stopped jumping because....she was running thru the jump, and strung out at the canter. Again, hasn't learned how to carry herself so she leans and "runs". She loves to jump..the ears tell the story, but it's whoa time for that.

                                        SO, we are doing dressage work and I am floored at what we have acomplished in such little time. I totally agree with the others ...it's a schooling problem that has been a learned response.

                                        Lateral work. Period.

                                        Can you imagine...I have tried everything from a mild snaffle to a segunda, and more recently a waterford..ON A 4 YO!!! This is after having her started by a pro, and other pro advice that saw her, and rode her.
                                        A 4 year old that was started a year ago. I bred and raised this foal from day one.
                                        I said "this is totally wrong".

                                        My former dressage trainer took 20 MINUTES to accomplish soft/light/round.
                                        What I spent a hell of a lot of money to NOT get accomplished, thru the hunter/jumper route. A lot of H/J trainers here in the US are not well versed in basic dressage principles, and they need to be IMO. Side reins and draw reins have to come off eventually, and the holes will be apparent.

                                        Now we are on the right path to self carraige.
                                        Then we will jump eventually.

                                        But lots more lateral work ahead. At least a year.
                                        Bravo, Underdog!!!!!!!!!

                                        Lateral work is key to longitudinal suppleness. If a horse is heavy in the mouth, it means he is not flexing his hocks appropriately and is thereby not carrying himself. Your hands have become his fifth leg! If he's only heavy in one direction and wants to lean on his shoulder in that direction, the problem is he fails to "carry" with the outside hind. If he's like this in BOTH directions, then you've got a horse that's isn't really flexing his hocks at all. With most horses, it's generally more of a problem to the left, and the ROOT of the problem is a stiff right hind. (I bet he generally jumps to the left lead, too. Probably makes you put more weight in your right stirrup. He probably constantly pushes into your left leg. Using more left rein makes the problem worse.) What you need to do is develop the PROPULSIVE power of the left hind (which is generally stronger in terms of staying under the horse and supporting its mass, but weaker in terms of pushing power - which is why he probably doesn't like to jump to his right lead) while developing the CARRYING power of the right hind (which is very propulsive, but lacks strength to flex and step under to support the mass.) If he's heavy in both directions all the time, you have NO carrying power and ALL propulsive power. As you can see, lateral work is the only thing that will truly FIX the problem instead of MASKING it. Therein lies the recipe for success. Not to mention improving your horses's jumping technique and scope. Bits do not develop horses. Thinking riders do.

                                        The usual work of shoulder-in is helpful. Counter shoulder-in is rather a lost exercise, but the EXACT thing you need to do when seeking to correct an errant outside hind. You cannot address a proper bend through the ribcage before you get control of that outside hind...using the inside rein more will simply encourage him to step out and evade more. SO...simply put, when a horse cops out with the outside hind to evade work (carrying) you simply then put him in the counter shoulder-in position (head and shoulders to the wall, croup to the inside) and turn his evasion into harder work. Horses are smart. They like the path of least resistance. When it becomes work to evade instead of what they think will be easier, they figure out really quickly that it is simply easier to do the work correctly and will stop evading with that outside hind. They learn to dig deep and put forth the effort or they only cause themselves harder work, and then with practice they develop the musculature that makes it easy. That's when things start to get fun. Then shoulder-in becomes easy. And then you can add travers and renvers (haunches-in and haunches-out.) And if at the end you can ride all those without resistance or loss of impulsion, you have the horse's haunches at your command. If you control the haunches, you control the entire horse.

                                        That's just using brains instead of brawn. And that's where both great horses and great riders are made.

                                        Keep us posted and best of luck!

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X