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Which horse would you choose? Hunter/jumper people and QH/PAINT/PINTO people.

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  • Which horse would you choose? Hunter/jumper people and QH/PAINT/PINTO people.

    I bred my warmblood cross mare with no luck to a paint stallion. I no longer want to try to bred her both financially and emotionally. I choose to put my stud fee towards buying on of the studs owners horses. I know they are nothing like what some of you guys have but I have always loved paint and pinto horses(I know the difference).

    I want something with some marketability in case I have to sell. I would like something taller so the 15hh are not what I really want but I am short so... To give you an idea my mare(I leased her) is 16.2 and the stud is 15.3. I was hoping for a jumper/hunter prospect and would still like one. I do love to barrel race so if the jumping falls through then that my back up.
    There are only APHA shows in my area no PtHA.
    And just for the record I am not selling the foals nor am I advertising I would just like some input on what other people think.

    #1 Tobiano DNA tested Smokey black filly not registered dam is a standardbred, sire registered paint( Patrons Gold Legacy) so only PtHA. She is priced above some of the registerable APHA foals I think because she is smokey black but why breed her if she is a cross like that? Only reson for me would be if she was a good competition horse which who could tell now. I think she is prices like that for personal resons the dam was their first horse. Mature 15hh. 7 months old

    #2 Palomino/Dunalino tobiano APHA Filly(not yet registered but can be) 50% chance she could be homozygous tobiano. Has the dun fator. Mature 15hh.
    Sire same dame is (Trips Show No Mercy) both registered APHA. Cheaper then above filly?? Born May Less color then above filly

    #3 Registered APHA Cremello tobiano filly. Same sire dam is registered QH (Vanilla Sugar Bar) She has a lot of inbreeding which I don't like?? Mature 15.3. Born May. Not sure if I like the cremello color? Same price as filly #1??

    #4 Red Dun Tobiano Filly born july same sire dam is a grade. PtHA registerable. More color the filly #2. Born July. Mature 15.2 Cheapest of the fillies

    #5 Sorrel Tobiano Stud Colt, sire same dam is a grade. PtHA . Mature 15.3 born june. Cheapest of all.

    Pictures of all(last one is not for sale outside breeding)
    http://www.freewebs.com/katebarnz/ap...lbumid=3724519
    Better pic of #2 http://classifieds.atlanticrider.com...uery=retrieval
    Better pic of #3 http://classifieds.atlanticrider.com...uery=retrieval
    Which do you like?? Do you see any major conformation faults? Which would you buy?

    Thanks

  • #2
    If it were me buying, I would pick one that was APHA. I am not sure any of these are H/J material although I have no knowledge of Paint/QH bloodlines. The stallion looks very much like a halter type paint.

    Comment


    • #3
      I am not real whoopie about any of these. If I were you, I would try to find something that is alittle more pleasure bred that could possibly do the hunters. I am not a fan of all the fancy colors (duns, cremellos, etc.... ) give me a nice chestnut or bay or whatever paint any day. The fancy colors usually add more to a price tag of a not so nice horse. My main concern is to find some that has full APHA papers where you could show... then find the best pedigree/conformation in your price range.

      Bobbi
      Bobbi
      ~ Jus Passed My Zipper aka Spanky, 11yo QH gelding.
      ~ Muskogee, 2yo Oldenburg Colt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Honestly....I am not really a paint fan or a QH fan but none of those babies strike me as very athletic looking. Especially #2...she is put together kind of funky. I would see if that breeder would refund you all or at least part of the stud fee.

        And if you are looking for a cheap nice prospect, I would start looking at OTTBs myself. First of all, they are already going undersaddle (might need retraining but are basically broke) and you can get some kind of idea of how the horse might move and jump. Second of all, you won't have to wait the 3 years for baby to grow up. You can start working on something right now.

        And if that doesn't work...I actually like the sorrel colt the best of the bunch.

        Good luck. Sorry your breeding plans didn't work out but you never know, you might find something even better that is meant to be.
        Last edited by imapepper; Aug. 25, 2009, 06:40 PM. Reason: add comment

        Comment


        • #5
          Ummmm...how do these jump?

          Forget the color and look at movement and conformation first, those can indicate the abilty to jump. None of these strike me as prospects for anything over fences.

          Be careful with the Tobys in the APHA, they like minimum white and that is an issue when breeding for a resale prospect-you have to breed for what buyers want. The palomino one would probably be considered least desireable color wise-it's just kind of a wash. The darker colors are more desireable, especially with a Toby.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Forget the color for now.

            I wouldn't touch the standardbred cross in a young filly that you're thinking for resale.

            I would be inclined to the APHA, but both fillies are decidedly NOT h/j type. I would say the seller is correct in pointing them at WP and maybe reining.

            The two out of grade mares wouldn't thrill me for resale either, but they both look more like they might be an all around and possibly h/j type, though the pictures aren't great to work with. Watch them move, have them chased over a tiny jump, see what happens. Be around them: do you like them personally? The last is the most important. A horse that is sensible, sound, and nice to be around can always find a home.

            Horses are cheap to buy and expensive to keep. A foal is going to take a lot of time and training. So even if the foal won't be any additional money, sometimes the best deal is to walk away.
            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

            Comment


            • #7
              Out of these, I like the last colt best. But that's not saying much. None are bred or built for H/J

              Like the other posters said, if you have your heart set on a paint, I'd look elsewhere. There are lots of paint/pinto prospects that are geared toward the h/j rings.
              Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
              My equine soulmate
              Mischief Managed (Tully)- JC Priceless Jewel 2002 TB Gelding

              Comment


              • #8
                If I were you I would look for a paint/TB cross that is registered with APHA.
                www.shawneeacres.net

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm not really a fan of them, granted my guy is APHA with full out western pleasure bloodlines and he has placed top five at world.. I agree with the looking for a paint/thoroghbred or a paint/quarter and making sure that quarter is one of the nicer hunter quarter's they a breeding nowadays.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    None of the above.

                    I can't think of anything nicer to say than that.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I'm just trying to get my money for the stud fee I paid. I never said the situation was ideal or that I could just up and looked at anything else. I suppose I could just lose my money but thats last resort kinda thing. Sorry I'm not trying to be rood but this has been driving me crazy! I was so sad when she didn't foal I still had hope even tho the vet said there was none. I tried to be realistic but I read post on here about vets being wrong. I'm thinking I just made a stupid mistake, that I lost sleep over, cried over and lost money on for nothing. I know I'm not the only one who has lost in the breeding world but so much for my first breeding experience. I just wanted to get something out of it. I've always been the one riding the out of place horse nerver the one with the pro-trained highly breed show animal. This was my chance and I messed up.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm a little confused as to what the situation is. You paid the stud fee, mare didn't take, and now the owner of the stud is offering you one of his/her babies? So it's either one of those horses or you lose your money?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          if you are just trying to recoup a stud fee I say walk away, nothing lost nothing gained

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            I either rebreed the mare or lose my money no refunds no % back. I don't want to try to rebreed her. So an option is putting the money towards buy one of there foals or wait an see if down the road sometime I want to breed a different mare. The mare I bred was on short of a lease and she is going 2 be 18years old she is a maiden so I don't want to spend anymore money on vet bills for most likely nothing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tough situation. But you might want to take a step back and make a list of the things you really want. Then separate that list into things you NEED and things you just WANT but can live without. (Hint, hint, color should be on that list.)

                              What are your goals? Do you want a hunter that you can show? Do you want a horse that can pop over some jumps at home for fun, and maybe putter around some barrels once in a while? Because you rarely find a hunter and a barrel horse in the same animal. They exist, but they're really at opposite ends of the spectrum. It's like saying you want a car that is a cute little convertible 2-seater, but you also want to be able to pull a 6 horse trailer. Oh, and if it turns out the vehicle isn't really good at those things, you at least want to be able to drag race. And it must be red.

                              If you don't have showing goals, then it should be easier to find something that can do a little bit of everything, just for fun. Lots of horses can pop over a 2'6" jump, even though they'll never win any ribbons for style. Lots of horses can run a barrel pattern, even though there's no way they will ever get the fastest time. And remember, that spots, white splotches or unsual colors never made any horse more athletic.

                              If you think you'll need to sell it a few years down the road, a mutt usually isn't the best choice unless it's already a made horse and it's impeccably trained. Without knowing what the dam/sire look like and what their performance records are, all those babies are nothing more than cute fluffy mysteries. Some of them may have papers, but if the parents have heads where their tails should be, and 2 of their legs are coming out of their ears, papers won't do you a damn bit of good. And if money is a consideration, is a baby really the best way to go? You could buy at least 3 well trained, rideable horses for what you're going to spend on a baby before you can even ride it. Does this breeder have anything else for sale that's already going under saddle?

                              I can understand being frustrated that things didn't work out the way you hoped, and being upset that you may lose your money. But it might be wise to take a step back, take a deep breath, and reevaluate your goals AND your options.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The stud fee is listed at $250-300. The cheapest of those foals is what, $1600? Then take into consideration what it will take to get that foal to riding age. I say cut your losses now. Obviously not fun to lose money, but probably better than paying more $$ for one of these and then having it not work out in a few years. There are lots of nice, really cheap (<$1600) and free horses out there right now.

                                Caitlin
                                Caitlin
                                *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                                http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Any stallion owner should refund money if the mare does not successfully concieve and/or foal. If the $300 is so important, take them to small claims court if they refuse to refund the fee. But personally I would walk away. THe fact that this stallion owner is breeding so many "mutt" foals disturbs me, in this day and age of too many horses and economic problems. Why would you take a registered paint and breed to just any thing? You want specific things in a foal. Being "heartbroken" over the fact your mare didn't concieve is not a good reason to purchase one of these foals. You shoul purchase something that is a exceptionally nice horse for you intended use, not settle for just anything because you want your stud fee back!
                                  www.shawneeacres.net

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Colored Sporthorses View Post
                                    I bred my warmblood cross mare with no luck to a paint stallion. I no longer want to try to bred her both financially and emotionally. I choose to put my stud fee towards buying on of the studs owners horses. I know they are nothing like what some of you guys have but I have always loved paint and pinto horses(I know the difference).

                                    I want something with some marketability in case I have to sell. I would like something taller so the 15hh are not what I really want but I am short so... To give you an idea my mare(I leased her) is 16.2 and the stud is 15.3. I was hoping for a jumper/hunter prospect and would still like one. I do love to barrel race so if the jumping falls through then that my back up.
                                    There are only APHA shows in my area no PtHA.
                                    And just for the record I am not selling the foals nor am I advertising I would just like some input on what other people think.

                                    #1 Tobiano DNA tested Smokey black filly not registered dam is a standardbred, sire registered paint( Patrons Gold Legacy) so only PtHA. She is priced above some of the registerable APHA foals I think because she is smokey black but why breed her if she is a cross like that? Only reson for me would be if she was a good competition horse which who could tell now. I think she is prices like that for personal resons the dam was their first horse. Mature 15hh. 7 months old

                                    #2 Palomino/Dunalino tobiano APHA Filly(not yet registered but can be) 50% chance she could be homozygous tobiano. Has the dun fator. Mature 15hh.
                                    Sire same dame is (Trips Show No Mercy) both registered APHA. Cheaper then above filly?? Born May Less color then above filly

                                    #3 Registered APHA Cremello tobiano filly. Same sire dam is registered QH (Vanilla Sugar Bar) She has a lot of inbreeding which I don't like?? Mature 15.3. Born May. Not sure if I like the cremello color? Same price as filly #1??

                                    #4 Red Dun Tobiano Filly born july same sire dam is a grade. PtHA registerable. More color the filly #2. Born July. Mature 15.2 Cheapest of the fillies

                                    #5 Sorrel Tobiano Stud Colt, sire same dam is a grade. PtHA . Mature 15.3 born june. Cheapest of all.

                                    Pictures of all(last one is not for sale outside breeding)
                                    http://www.freewebs.com/katebarnz/ap...lbumid=3724519
                                    Better pic of #2 http://classifieds.atlanticrider.com...uery=retrieval
                                    Better pic of #3 http://classifieds.atlanticrider.com...uery=retrieval
                                    Which do you like?? Do you see any major conformation faults? Which would you buy?

                                    Thanks
                                    1: Have you seen her canter? Some standardbreds can canter decently but many cannot/it is not desired that a horse canter at all as a track trotter (what the vast majority of STBs are bred for) so a decent canter certianly is not bred for. None of the photos show confo to judge on.
                                    2:is registerable (a plus), has a decently long neck, not too short legged or straight in the hocks as the halter bred Paints can get. The pics on the first link are actually better. The ones on the ad are bad. All in all, a bad set of photos though that I would not consider unless you have better pics.
                                    3: all the photos are horrible....the first are still newborn kinked up and the second set are at bad angles/can't tell anything.
                                    4: best of the lot on the photos: first you can see in one trot photo that the dam can actually move pretty nicely, and there is one photo of the filly moving where you can see her stepping under herself as well.
                                    5: the colt...again, can't tell much from the pics/ are at awful angles.

                                    Based on photos, I would go with number 4.
                                    Providence Farm
                                    http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by shawneeAcres View Post
                                      Any stallion owner should refund money if the mare does not successfully concieve and/or foal. If the $300 is so important, take them to small claims court if they refuse to refund the fee. But personally I would walk away. THe fact that this stallion owner is breeding so many "mutt" foals disturbs me, in this day and age of too many horses and economic problems. Why would you take a registered paint and breed to just any thing? You want specific things in a foal. Being "heartbroken" over the fact your mare didn't concieve is not a good reason to purchase one of these foals. You shoul purchase something that is a exceptionally nice horse for you intended use, not settle for just anything because you want your stud fee back!
                                      Ummm this is not generally how it works. Usually if the stallion is unable to conceive ( low sperm counts etc) the fee is refunded. But the problem may be with the mare since she is an 18 yo maiden/he has other foals in which case it is not the SOs fault. Most stallion owners will let you sell/transfer the breeding or subsitute another mare though and that was offered. I do agree the stud fee lost is nothing compared to what you will put into the foal down the road to riding age.....so only take her up on this if you like the foal on it's own merits.
                                      Providence Farm
                                      http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Colored Sporthorses View Post
                                        I'm just trying to get my money for the stud fee I paid. I never said the situation was ideal or that I could just up and looked at anything else. I suppose I could just lose my money but thats last resort kinda thing. Sorry I'm not trying to be rood but this has been driving me crazy! I was so sad when she didn't foal I still had hope even tho the vet said there was none. I tried to be realistic but I read post on here about vets being wrong. I'm thinking I just made a stupid mistake, that I lost sleep over, cried over and lost money on for nothing. I know I'm not the only one who has lost in the breeding world but so much for my first breeding experience. I just wanted to get something out of it. I've always been the one riding the out of place horse nerver the one with the pro-trained highly breed show animal. This was my chance and I messed up.
                                        Sorry, but I don't see these as likely being the ticket to the hunter big time either. The stallion confo (what little they show) does not look it, there is nothing on their site about him (did he DO anything?) and the photos of him are also at odd angles...though all in all I see a stock bred type. I see no info on the broodmares as to what they did (if anything) either. Not having a mare take is not a stupid mistake, it happens though. FWIW breeding an 18 YO maiden is not working with very good odds that she will get in foal. Can it happen? Yes, but the odds are not good either.
                                        According to the APHA the stallion is unshown. He has 4 APHA registered offspring (3 from 08 and 1 from 09) that are unshown.
                                        The mares: Vanilla Sugar Bar is a QH so the APHA would have no show record for her
                                        if she has one.
                                        The dams of the 2 registered 08 foals are APHAs and also have no show records.
                                        My point here is that these are not folks that are breeding show horses since the stock is all unshown and you are saying your goal is to have the breed show winner.
                                        Last edited by camohn; Aug. 26, 2009, 08:50 AM.
                                        Providence Farm
                                        http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

                                        Comment

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