• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

WWYD? Instructor sets gymnastics at awkward distances.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • WWYD? Instructor sets gymnastics at awkward distances.

    I am an adult who has been jumping for 30 years. I enjoy the lessons with my instructor greatly except for certain days. These are the days that gymnastics are set up. Normally, I enjoy this type of work. This particular instructor, however, typically sets the strides at very awkward distances. The striding is always set veeeerry loooong. I have gotten to the point where I just dread doing them because the only way to try and make it through is just to literally run at them. All students must trot into the gymnastics, but the kicker is that the next jump is set at the standard horse length of twelve feet. Just. Too. Hard.

    For example, if I was jumping through a two stride, the first fence would be a trot-in followed 36 feet later by the second obstacle. Now, books about gymnastic design (for example, 101 Jumping Exercises for Horse & Rider, by Linda Allen), suggest that the trot in-fence should be compensated for by shortening the distance to the second fence. A one-stride (following a trot in first fence) should have a spacing of 18 feet, and a two stride should be set at about 28 feet. To try and make a two stride set at the full 36 feet requires a major flyer. All the students attempting this either had to run their horses hard at the fence to try and make the distance, or wind up chipping badly—it’s a mess. These gymnastics don’t accomplish anything and hurt my confidence level because they are just so awkward/difficult.

    Well, I’ve just had it and so confronted my instructor recently in the lesson. The instructor replied that I was wrong, and that the distances should always be twelve feet even with a trot in. Instructor was also very icy in the response and I was a hairsbreadth away from being kicked out of the lesson.

    I still do not want to jump through these scary/awkward gymnastics anymore. I also don’t want to change instructors because, except for this striding issue, the instruction really is quite good. (But believe me, I’ve thought about it.)

    So, my question is, how can I ask my instructor to change things a little without causing offense? I’m afraid if I ask again, that I will be kicked out for talking back. On the other hand, these “gymnastics” are borderline dangerous. I just don’t enjoy doing them. But I know, sooner or later, the gymnastics will appear again and that there will be another confrontation.

    How can I (A) have the instructor become more open minded and modify the gymnastics to a more comfortable distance?
    Or (B) just tell her I don’t enjoy gymnastics and therefore don’t want to do them anymore?

    Thanks, any advice would be appreciated, especially from students or instructors who have resolved a confrontation with a happy outcome.

  • #2
    Give her a copy (complete with gift wrapping and a bow) of 101 Jumping Exercises for Horse and Rider.
    Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would say, "Hey, Instructor, I read about this really neat gymnastic exercise. Why don't we set it up and try it out?" Maybe pick one that's different than the ones she's been butchering. If Instructor is one of those who thinks that you couldn't possibly know anything even though you've been riding for 30 years, hand over the book so she can pretend she's getting info from the book instead of you.

      I get the feeling that if she's already P.O.'ed about you challenging her, she'll smell what you're trying to do a mile away. You may end up having to make a decision about either quitting the gymnastics or finding a new trainer. That's a shame, because when set up correctly, gymnastics are wonderful. But as you already know, when they're set up wrong, they will make a mess out of horse and rider. The thing is, for the most part, gymnastics should be set up to fit the horse, not the other way around. It's not a one size fits all thing.


      ETA: Oh, and I would try to not to correct a trainer during a lesson unless it's a private one. Unless of course she's asking everyone to jump a fence made of barbed wire that she sets on fire. Then I might speak up.

      Comment


      • #4
        Find a tactful way --- to not do it.

        I would talk to the trainer privately and ask why she sets it that way,
        let her know it rides long and makes you feel like he is pulling as opposed to rocking on his hocks-- and say something of the sort that it just feels risky on your horse.
        You owe fairness & safety to the ole POny!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd get a new instructor. Sorry....any instructor that off on setting distances (and not adjusting an exercise for the horses to get a good training result) isn't very good and not worth spending money on. I would be questioning every thing they say or do.....that is just too basic of a mistake.
          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

          Comment


          • #6
            Does instructor ride? Could you ask instructor to please get on your horse and show you how to "properly execute this gymnastic from the trot" because you're having difficulty? Perhaps if instructor had to actually ride it, instructor would hop on the clue train.
            A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

            Might be a reason, never an excuse...

            Comment


            • #7
              I would also be looking elsewhere, and I have for this very reason. Gymnastics are basic and very necessary and can easily destroy a horse's confidence if set improperly. Not to mention why pay somebody for something when they obviously know less about it than you do and can't be bothered to learn?

              It's not your job to train the trainer.
              "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
              Rainy
              Stash

              Comment


              • #8
                Or you could just ignore the trot in and canter into the gymnastic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sounds to me like the instructor just doesn't know she's setting long. I would pull her aside with a copy of 101 Jumping Exercises and talk about distances for gymnastics, which are different than for regular canter-in work.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A trot in two-stride is not 36'. Usual protocol when trotting in a line (any line, even a combination or gymnastic) is to add one stride to the canter in count. If you're doing an average 4 stride at the canter (60') it would be a 5 stride if you trotted in. Trotting in to 36' should be about 3 strides (probably a quiet three for most horses).

                    If your trainer doesn't realize that, I would either a)add the stride myself or b)excuse myself from any gymnastic exercises.

                    I would not, however, try to correct trainer during a lesson. That's not going to go well and will only be seen as you trying to undermine her authority.

                    One thing I might do is set my own gymnastic and do it myself. Hopefully trainer would see you being successful and wonder what the difference is. 'Course this is a very passive-agressive way of dealing with the issue, but if all else fails...I'd give it a shot.
                    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is ridiculous. You should not be paying for instruction on something that is blatantly wrong. Why is this trainers instruction so much better without the gymnastics? Is she really teaching you anything? Why do you like her?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You are right and she is wrong.

                        Problem 1: You are the paying ammy, she is the paid pro

                        Problem 2: Gymnastics can be fantastic when set intelligently and with a purpose. The best of the best hunter gurus do this. They can be something between "wasted jumps" and scary for horse and rider when done without enough knowledge.

                        So you must do something, even if that's skipping gymnastics day lessons.

                        Problem 3: You and trainer don't have a good way to talk about what you need at the moment. The pro should Man Up and get over the shock of your "challenge," but might not be able to just yet.

                        I think other posters have given you good ideas about how to broach the subject. I agree that a private convo, and the innocent "Hey, look what I learned! The bigwigs do say to shorten the distances to accommodate for the fact that the trotting horse will land closer to the base of the first one" may work. But you might need to just put some time between your last discussion and this one.

                        On the other hand, I was in the same situation and learned something. The pro had set the distances at cantering-length distances and that got my panties in a wad. Of course, she and I agreed that my horse really needed to learn to canter slowly and stretch out his stride without me chasing and causing him to answer with "ok, bizzatch, you get shorter but faster." I'll be damned if he didn't do that by sizing up the too-long distance and making it work.
                        The armchair saddler
                        Politically Pro-Cat

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          lol. Does the instructor also judge? We had a judge once, in an eq work-off, who lowered the in of the in-and-out and wanted us to trot in. All righty.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BuddyRoo View Post
                            Does instructor ride? Could you ask instructor to please get on your horse and show you how to "properly execute this gymnastic from the trot" because you're having difficulty? Perhaps if instructor had to actually ride it, instructor would hop on the clue train.
                            yes, I think that would be the best thing to do


                            https://www.facebook.com/VoltaireDesign

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What state are you in? I know an instructor who does the same thing and when I discussed it with that person, the response I got back was not good! We were talking about distances changing in hunterland when the fences got higher- like from the 3' divisions to the 4' regulars. I was told there was no way the lines could be set any longer than a 12' stride because the only horses who could make that were racehorses!! huh? ok, then!
                              Sometimes going forward is as simple as never going backward.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I would get a different instructor. I have only been riding 7 years, and I can set up fairly accurate related distances. If they are off, if is normally by no more than 1-2 feet, not by 10 or more feet. That's almost a whole stride off!!! If you ask me, that is simply ridiculous.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Thanks for the responses so far. I'm actually quite worried about it because the instructor truly does NOT know that the gymnastics needs to be adjusted for the trot in. This is for my safety as well as the safety of the many juniors also taking instruction who do not yet realize that these distances are not set correctly.

                                  Interestingly, the instructor does not jump though the gymnastics that he/she designs. I think if he/she did, that they would understand the awkwardness of the distance. I'm not going to let him/her go through on my horse though because it would put my horse in an awkward, crash worthy situation.

                                  I would canter through if I could, but there is usually a trot pole or two set up in front of the first fence to prevent it. I do try and ask for the canter a step before the jump to try and get the distance in, but the jumps are still always flyers. I can't add up either because there are placement poles set at 12 foot intervals. I'm here right now still shaking about this.

                                  I did make the confrontation in the middle of a group lesson--I guess that was an oops.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    This is a shame. You are right, she is wrong. Gymnastics are an amazing tool and something that can and SHOULD be taylored to each horse and rider and the desired goal for the day!

                                    Even within one group lesson, it may be difficult to have all horses and riders in the lesson jumping the exact same gymnastic set at the same lengths. When I did camp 2 weeks ago, I had a gymnastics day and I had to set up our gymnastics line once for the ponies, and then again for the horses. When I was having my students come through with no reins, I shortened it up a little just to make it a little easier so that the test became the no reins, not the gymnastic. Gymnastics can easily scare a horse or rider when no set correctly!
                                    ...for there are wings on these hooves, the speed and power of foam-capped waves...
                                    *~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*~v~*
                                    Proud member of the artists clique

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      If your instructor doesn't know how to set fences then what else doesn't she know?
                                      If she can't see with her own two eyes that the distance is wrong, then she is a not qualified to teach. IMO.
                                      http://community.webshots.com/user/summitspringsfarm

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Get new trainer.

                                        This is gymnastics 101. I won't pay $$ to people who know less about riding a horse than I do.

                                        From your post, there is nothing positive that will come out of you trying to correct the trainer, even though you are totally correct.

                                        And just fyi, we set the gymnastics even a little shorter than "standard", even when the jumps go up - teaches horse to rock back, slow down, etc. Not all horses can do this, but you get the picture.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X