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What to do? (deals with owner resonsibility)

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  • What to do? (deals with owner resonsibility)

    So, this post will be long, just a heads up.

    I lease a horse from my instructor and have done so for the past 2 years. I love this horse.
    This past week, my barn is having a riding camp and on Wednesday, a chiropractor came out and gave us a demonstration on about 4 horses and I learned a lot. One thing that I walked away with was knowing exactly what to look for in a horse to see if he is ouch-y and what all that misalignment does for the horse, performance-wise.

    This morning I was grooming my horse (the one I lease from my instructor) and noticed that he flinches along his loin area and croup when I groom him, heck I can just rest my hand there and he flinches. I feel terrible about it too, because this is not a new thing, I can't remember when it first started but it has been this way for quite awhile.

    I mention this to my instructor and she says that he probably does need an adjustment but she can't afford to have her lesson horses looked at and adjusted accordingly. From what I've seen other people pay for chiro work, $86 is not very much, especially when the welfare of the horse is concerned.

    The fact that he isn't right explains so many issues that just seem to not get better. Lateral work, mostly leg yielding is next to impossible, our canter departures, though I have been working on them for over a year are-although better- are still pretty blah.

    What really gets me is that, even though my trainer knows he's ouchy and not quite right, in lessons she wants me to get after him during leg-yielding because he's not crossing over very much or our canter departs aren't that great.

    I feel really bad now that I realize what exactly is going on but I don't know what to do. He's not mine so my parents won't let me pay for something they feel my instructor should do, and my instructor won't have him looked at because she "can't afford it".

    I'm really bummed as well because I can't afford to buy him, even if she put him up for sale, which is unlikely. If I were to make an offer, it would have to be well above my budget because he is a valuable, versatile lesson horse. He takes care of beginners and people learning to jump but is also useful for the more advanced riders and because he's a 16.1h stocky QH, almost anyone can ride him.


    Should my instructor have the chiropractor out since she knows he's hurting?


    What should I do? I'm really depressed about the situation because it's not fair to him to ask for 100% when he's hurting.

  • #2
    If you lease the horse, you should be financially responsible for his chiropractic adjustments.
    www.millcreekfarm.net
    **RIP Kickstart aka Char 12/2/2009**

    Comment


    • #3
      $86 isn't very much. You're leasing and riding so you should offer to pay.
      The rebel in the grey shirt

      Comment


      • #4
        agreed. now that you are leasing him you are responsible for keeping him as sound as possible

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          I understand where you are coming from Serah, but in the contract, all I'm paying for is to ride. I don't take care of farrier, vet, etc.

          JWB- I would offer, but since I am still a minor, I have to somehow convince my parents. Even though it is a small amount, they feel that since my instructor owns the horse, she should pay, but...ugh.

          BearWithMe- Like I told JWB, I only pay to ride him. It's a funky lease contract and I would much rather prefer a regular lease agreement where I take financial responsibility over his care, but I don't and because of the agreement between my instructor and I, my parents aren't going to be too keen on me offering to pay for something they feel my instructor should do.

          I would be more than willing to pay for the chiropractor to come out, but I don't how I can convince my parents that the horse is more important than their feelings.

          Comment


          • #6
            Are you young(er)? You mention your parents "not letting you pay." If you are 18+ too bad, so sad, pay anyway. If you are younger than that, maybe you can "pay it off" to your trainer via extra work around the barn? Say, you supervise lesson kids tacking/untacking, much stalls, whatever for X hours and your trainer pays for the chiro adjustment? (Just make sure the arrangement works out to a reasonable $/hr situation for you - I wouldn't settle for less than 9 or 10 personally )

            Comment


            • #7
              In the grand moral scheme of things, yes, the owner should get her horse looked at. And in a completely sensible world, there should be a lease contract that states who is responsible for what re: medical costs for this horse.

              Realistically? You're the rider here. You have a choice: pay the $86.00 and have a sound horse who you can ride comfortably and in good conscience; Don't pay the $86.00 and deal with the guilt and further injury that are likely to come; Or, stop riding and leasing the horse and pass the responsibility on to his owner.

              It's $86.00, you are his primary rider. I hear you on being upset that the owner wont do it, (a person who is unwilling to keep her lesson horses healthy doesn't sit right with me,) but you can sit around wishing it was being done, or you can do it.
              Last edited by kashmere; Jul. 30, 2009, 09:12 PM. Reason: typos!

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Cita- I'm 17, so close! I hadn't thought of working it off (duh me). I'll talk to my instructor about that tomorrow.

                kashmere-That's just it. In the lease contract, it states that the owner is responsible for medical costs, so that's not going to sit right with my parents but after I talk with my instructor tomorrow, hopefully a solution will arise where my horse ends up better and my parents aren't too put off for having to do what they shouldn't have to (pay for the chiro).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Honestly...chiro work isn't the end all be all.....some horses it helps...and some horses it doesn't help.

                  Do not feel guilty. Does the horse have a good shine to his coat? Is he well feed? Have a pretty good life? That is the most important thing. Also, correct work can help a horse as much if not more than a chiro adjustment.

                  You want to help him more....make sure that your saddle fits....and learn some of the carrot stretches that pretty much every Chiro will ask you to do with your horse. Someone more articulate than me perhaps can perhaps describe a few of them or next time the chiro is working on a horse in the barn see if they will demonstrate some of them.

                  Beyond that....start saving your own pennies if you really think this is important. Why do your parents have to pay for it...save the money you get for your B-day or holidays...babysitting or other odd jobs.
                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Don't chiropractors usually want to do a couple sessions, not just one? That's why I've always been hesitant to get one out. One session might not be overly expensive, but when you have to pay that a couple times, it definitely adds up.
                    "Last time I picked your feet, you broke my toe!"

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      bornfreenowexpensive- I'm a little more reassured because he does have a shiny coat, he does have good muscling, and he is in good weight. I have my saddle checked often because I really do want him to be comfortable. The reason my parents would have to pay is because I'm currently out of a job, but I'm going to an interview tomorrow.

                      Also, the chiropractor showed me like 7 different stretches that I am now going to do religiously.

                      mg- Yes, the chiropractor usually does a couple sessions, but they are usually a month or so later, so it's not a lot all at once.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                        Honestly...chiro work isn't the end all be all.....some horses it helps...and some horses it doesn't help.

                        Do not feel guilty. Does the horse have a good shine to his coat? Is he well feed? Have a pretty good life? That is the most important thing. Also, correct work can help a horse as much if not more than a chiro adjustment.

                        You want to help him more....make sure that your saddle fits....and learn some of the carrot stretches that pretty much every Chiro will ask you to do with your horse. Someone more articulate than me perhaps can perhaps describe a few of them or next time the chiro is working on a horse in the barn see if they will demonstrate some of them.

                        Beyond that....start saving your own pennies if you really think this is important. Why do your parents have to pay for it...save the money you get for your B-day or holidays...babysitting or other odd jobs.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Also, you might want to make sure that what you are seeing is truly a sign of needing an adjustment and not a "reflex"

                          There are some funny spots on a horses back that make them do funny things. I went through a bunch of pre-purchase exams last year and watched my vet push certain places or roll thing down the horses' backs and get HUGE responses that I thought were pain. She said it was normal and she'd be concerned if the horse didn't respond like that.

                          When I see something funny I ask my vet about it when she's out at the barn... She's usually okay to give me a "quick oppinion" if she's already there for something else. For what it's worth, I've used chiro on one of my dogs and it saved his show carreer. I've used it on horses with little to moderate success - Not that I don't think it's valid - I just think in the horses, I was trying to treat other issues that were NOT truly chiro related with chriopractic...

                          My thoughts on chiropractic treatment is they're probably not going to hurt anything and they might help... but don't count on it to be a silver bullet!
                          The rebel in the grey shirt

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You will learn now that some horse owners do not do everything for their horses. I've learned that while boarding, and while I have wanted to help out, it is financially impossible to help out everyone else's horses. I've often offered to pay for vet bills, meds, training, etc., but have been turned down.

                            The riding academy that I took lessons at when I was a child took very good care of its horses. Most BOs though, have their favorite horses, who get everything, and the horses that they give less time and attention and care to. While I give all my dogs/cats/horses the same care and attention despite having some I like best, I have realized that some others do not do the same. Barn cats down here aren't treated as well as house cats, etc.

                            So save up your allowance or do chorses at the barn to pay for the chiro for the horse. Or if your parents can buy the horse, then you can have all the responsibilty for his care. My horses have never seen a chiro, but they have always seen the vet and farrier to excess.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              All good points above. I want to touch on the "marketing" side, since that's my profession.

                              Usually any kind of seminar that is touted as "educational" has a sales slant to it, no matter how valuable the actual education is. If you attended a seminar on chiropractic care for the horse, the person in charge may have been showing conditions that most working horses have, and exaggerating their importance, to get you to spend money on an exam and adjustment - which of course leads to MORE adjustments.

                              I'm not knocking chiropractors - I use one for myself and my horse quite often. And your horse may very well need an adjustment or ten. But - it isn't a CURE for back pain and flexibility issues. It is a temporary fix. The pain ALWAYS comes back sooner or later, as long as the cause is still there. That cause could be the saddles on his back, the type of work he's doing, heck, even the bedding in his stall might be uncomfortable. You don't know.

                              Don't lose sleep over it. While it would probably help the horse to be adjusted monthly because of the amount of work he's doing as a school horse, it isn't going to make or break him. And since he's probably never been adjusted, only ONE visit from the chiro, which is maybe what you could pay for, won't do it at all. You'll need a series of them, consistently, to see results.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by This Is It View Post
                                JWB- I would offer, but since I am still a minor, I have to somehow convince my parents. Even though it is a small amount, they feel that since my instructor owns the horse, she should pay, but...ugh.
                                What are you talking about you would have to convince them?

                                Do you run it by them every time you have $40 in your wallet and decide to spend $20 on dinner with friends and a movie?

                                Do you run it by them every time you want to spend $50 of your own money that is in your own wallet on a birthday present for a friend?

                                "Being a minor" has nothing to do with it.

                                Rustle up $86 in cash and be done with it.
                                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  This is a great "practice" situation for you where you get to negotiate between your values, priorities and limits and those of other adults.

                                  As others have said, one chiropractic treatment might not be a cure. But when you are on the horse, he is your responsibility, so you ought to embrace the moral obligation to do what you can for him.

                                  That includes telling your trainer and asking her to pay for at least one treatment to see if it will help her horse.

                                  It also includes asking your parent for the $$ or a loan. It also might include your explaining to them that the welfare of the horse comes ahead of whatever deal they made with the limited lease. If you feel this way, you need to stand up for the animal and let the chips fall where they will.

                                  But finally, it may involve you putting the first $86 of your pay check toward the treatment.

                                  Do what helps you sleep well at night, regardless of what any other adult chooses for him- or herself. This is how you become a good horsewoman-- at any age and to the extent you can.
                                  The armchair saddler
                                  Politically Pro-Cat

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I have a gelding who has severe neurological problems (he's retired now at 8) and one of the signs that we noticed was that he DIDN'T react when we pushed areas on his back. There is a lot you can do with massage, too, to keep him comfortable till you can get a chiropracter in to look at him - my trainer (who also does some massage) taught me some simple exercises and stretches that I still do with him to keep him comfortable and mobile. The massage is particularly helpful for back soreness and loin problems - I do not pretend to be a therapist but I can do some simple stuff that is comforting to them and it makes ME feel better so I'm a more effective rider.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by mvp View Post
                                      It also includes asking your parent for the $$ or a loan.
                                      Why?

                                      OP is SEVENTEEN.

                                      She can
                                      1.) get a job if for whatever reason she does not already have one

                                      or

                                      2.) save a portion of her allowance.


                                      Are people seriously thinking that kids shouldn't be expected (to say nothing of allowed) to handle both the earning and the control of $86 until they are legal adults?

                                      Good lord. $8,600 I could understand. $860....depends on the situation. No you can't go to Myrtle Beach for the weekend even if it is your own money, but if you want to buy a pair of Vogels so bad be my guest.

                                      But $86??!!!
                                      The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                      Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                      Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                      The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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                                      • #20
                                        Some horses are just goosey...and has nothing to do with "needing" an alignment or an adjustment. The horse is a school horse and sad as it is a school horse's life is different and can be difficult. I'm sure your trainer would love to spend the funds on chiropractic care for all of her horses but you have to understand the economics of it. I agree w/ Bornfreebutexpensive.. I hurt my back awhile back, went to a chiropractor - first trip in heaven, 2nd visit better, 3rd visit I could barely walk to my car... never went back

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