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HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION re: the stupid ammy rule

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  • HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION re: the stupid ammy rule

    How is it fair that an ammy, in the USEF definition of one, can show in the adults this week on the same horse that last year she won 3 grand prix on? She rides better than 75% of the pro's in the country!

    Yet a person who has NO right ever doing that (adult jumper) division in terms of talent (bad eye, bad position, etc) is a "pro" because she teaches up-down to adult re-riders 3-5 pm 2 days a week for pocket money?

    I just don't get it! The rule should be something like if more than half your income comes from riding/ teaching OR if you have won X amount then you are pro. (X could be a Grand Prix, a Big Eq final, more than $50k in prize money, etc.)
    Last edited by Alterrain; Jul. 4, 2009, 03:58 PM. Reason: made me seem jealous.
    When the boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks the closet for George Morris. -mpsbarnmanager

  • #2
    Originally posted by Alterrain View Post
    How is it fair that an ammy, in the USEF definition of one, can show in the adults this week on the same horse that last year she won 3 grand prix on? She rides better than 75% of the pro's in the country!

    Yet a person who has NO right ever doing that (adult jumper) division in terms of talent (bad eye, bad position, etc) is a "pro" because she teaches up-down to adult re-riders 3-5 pm 2 days a week for pocket money?

    I just don't get it! The rule should be something like if more than half your income comes from riding/ teaching OR if you have won X amount then you are pro. (X could be a Grand Prix, a Big Eq final, more than $50k in prize money, etc.)

    I am not bitter, and have nothing against this person/ or am mad because she wins and I don't. I actually beat her in all 3 classes today, and think she is a pretty sad person- suffers from depression, may have an eating disorder, and I think only continues to ride because her parents pay for everything, not for love of the sport. I am just using her as my example.
    a) stop teaching so you can be an ammie or
    b) submit a rule change proposal or
    c) learn to ride better and you too can do a GP or
    d) accept the rule the way it is written. NOT TALENT it's $$$ earned.

    Jealous much?

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree. Why is someone who teaches beginner lessons to 5 year olds and just started showing, not allowed to compete as an amateur, yet someone who is independently wealthy with a barn full of grand prix horses and has been showing for 20 years is allowed to compete as an amateur.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ammy rules use to use % of yearly income in the past.
        I guess the rule was too lenient and a lot of riders abused it, hence the strict guidelines regarding ammy status.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by cute_lil_fancy_pants_pony View Post
          I agree. Why is someone who teaches beginner lessons to 5 year olds and just started showing, not allowed to compete as an amateur, yet someone who is independently wealthy with a barn full of grand prix horses and has been showing for 20 years is allowed to compete as an amateur.
          Because they don't make money from it.

          Comment


          • #6
            The rules are not always easy to swallow. Many times I sigh in frustration as "ammies" who ride on Nations Cup teams compete in the A/O jumper divisions against people like me who have jobs outside the horse world and don't have 10 GP horses and a trust fund....BUT - that is the rule. Suck it up and ride better. I feel great on those super rare occassions when I get to beat them. If I were in their shoes I would not elect to show in the A/O divisions if I were doing big GP's. But they are legally ammies - they have the right to do what they want to.....and I would have 10 horses and ride 8 hours a day if I could - so why be bitter?
            http://good-times.webshots.com/album/557433725gtOAuC

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by S A McKee View Post
              a) stop teaching so you can be an ammie or
              b) submit a rule change proposal or
              c) learn to ride better and you too can do a GP or
              d) accept the rule the way it is written. NOT TALENT it's $$$ earned.

              Jealous much?
              I think you misunderstood. I am an ammy, and have NO desire to even move up a division, much less do a GP! I am a major pansy. And not jealous of her at all! I was just using her as an example. I just think the rule is dumb. A situation like this doesn't make sense to me.
              When the boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks the closet for George Morris. -mpsbarnmanager

              Comment


              • #8
                Not jealous, not bitter, but pissed enough to start a thread about it and include potshots about her mental state and weight? Get over yourself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I understand where the OP is coming from. Frankly if nothing else it seems unsportsmanlike to show in the adult jumpers when you have competed in the grand prix. I'd feel like a big heel doing it myself, even though it is technically within the rules. As for the A/O jumpers (the highs anyway), to an outsider it appears to be a division for "professional amateurs" (i.e. those who do nothing but horse show) and professionals' wives. Or at least those are the people who seem to do consistently well in that division. No sour grapes here - I'll never have the guts to jump the A/Os (or realistically the horse), but I do feel for those riders who are weekend warriors and attempting to be competitive in that division. I also agree that the amateur rule is less than perfect - there are many in the 3' hunters who routinely violate the letter and/or spirit of the rule - but I'm not sure what the solution is.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Alterrain View Post
                    How is it fair that an ammy, in the USEF definition of one, can show in the adults this week on the same horse that last year she won 3 grand prix on? She rides better than 75% of the pro's in the country!

                    Yet a person who has NO right ever doing that (adult jumper) division in terms of talent (bad eye, bad position, etc) is a "pro" because she teaches up-down to adult re-riders 3-5 pm 2 days a week for pocket money?

                    I just don't get it! The rule should be something like if more than half your income comes from riding/ teaching OR if you have won X amount then you are pro. (X could be a Grand Prix, a Big Eq final, more than $50k in prize money, etc.)

                    I am not bitter, and have nothing against this person/ or am mad because she wins and I don't. I actually beat her in all 3 classes today, and think she is a pretty sad person- suffers from depression, may have an eating disorder, and I think only continues to ride because her parents pay for everything, not for love of the sport. I am just using her as my example.
                    You say you are not bitter or jealous, but your post comes off that way. Ignore what everyone else is doing and just focus on you and your horse and try to better yourself. Or try to get the rules changed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by horselesswonder View Post
                      but I'm not sure what the solution is.
                      Drop the amateur division.
                      Institute some modification of novice and limit so that people are competing against others in the same universe wrt talent or whatever, and leave the open.

                      No matter how you tweak it, though, someone's always going to have more money, or talent, or better horseflesh than someone else.
                      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I know that the jumper divisons will never be fair. You will always have folks that have more money to spend on their horse showing than some of us will ever have. That being said there are always folks that would love to be in shoes you or others are in. I just work really hard at it and that is all I can do. Might have more aches and pains from doing the hard work around our farm that others never have to do. If that is what I have to do to be able to have horses so be it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Coreene View Post
                          Not jealous, not bitter, but pissed enough to start a thread about it and include potshots about her mental state and weight? Get over yourself.
                          Completely agree with Coreene on this. Not sure what the point of your post is? You won all three classes right? Did her horse have an injury? Maybe has gotten older? Not able to maintain his soundness at that height? Or as you cruelly pointed out the poor woman might have some serious health issues...that she might be dealing with. If she is following the rules and no one felt the need to explain their personal situation to you, it really is none of your business.
                          "All life is precious"
                          Sophie Scholl

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            May I play devils advocate for a second here and suggest that perhaps the ammy in question needed to give a horse a schooling at 3'6" and there weren’t any other classes available? Or perhaps it was what her scheduled allowed for?
                            Its very unlikely that a rider at the GP levels wants to go in and compete against a bunch of AA jumper riders. It was probably the only option for classes that day; notice...she didnt beat you, so my assumption is that it was a class for the horse not the rider.

                            I do think the ami rules need to be done with, we need classes according to skill level. Not based on how we make a living.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh god. Can we PLEASE PLEASE nip this one in the bud? Do we REALLY need to have this conversation AGAIN? Does anyone else second the motion to chalk the OP up to a much needed release of steam and let's put this one to bed??

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                OP, you are going to have a tough time in life if you think the little ammy rules are unfair. Honey, LIFE is not fair! For example: If you ever attend a child's funeral, you'll snap back into what is really really important. Maybe you need to rethink your reasons for showing in the first place? Just focus on having fun with your horse. Good luck.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  There's already a great message board for releasing steam about one's own issues. It's called Doctor Phil Dot Com. Here though? Not so much. It's not a "general rant" when someone starts a thread singling out one individual. It's a petulant, juvenile whine. No one said the great gallop of life would be across a level field. And what a bore if it was.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Well, for what it's worth, I also think that the ammy rule should be ditched completely in favor of something that classifies riders by skill or accomplishment instead of by money.

                                    I doubt it will happen, but I wish it would.

                                    I see it as just another in a long list of ways this sport is slanted towards the wealthy.
                                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                    "I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of stars makes me dream." --Vincent Van Gogh

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Life is unfair....but does that mean that people are not happy? Successful? Overcome obstacles to achieve their dreams? Of course not, yes we all deal with various frustrations in the horse world, and yes many of us have had to deal with the ammy in the High A/O division who rides for the "Team" and in reality is a pro....but you know what....the gratitude adn the happiness and being competitive through hard work and dedication....most of us don't notice, because we are so happy with what we have....


                                      Melzy brings up a very poingnant example....life can be truly cruel and unfair....be grateful for what you have and cherish your blessings.
                                      "All life is precious"
                                      Sophie Scholl

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                                        Well, for what it's worth, I also think that the ammy rule should be ditched completely in favor of something that classifies riders by skill or accomplishment instead of by money.

                                        I doubt it will happen, but I wish it would.

                                        I see it as just another in a long list of ways this sport is slanted towards the wealthy.
                                        I completely and totally agree with this. Dividing riders by skill, experience and accomplishment makes so much more sense to me.

                                        And you know what I really hate? I hate the negative connotation of the word "amateur." I know it's not only this sport, but just because someone doesn't do a sport professionally doesn't mean they aren't good at it.

                                        That being said, you must keep in mind that no matter what the rules are, there will always be someone wealthier/more time to ride/more horses/skinnier/prettier/whatever/etc.
                                        ******
                                        "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."
                                        -H.M.E.

                                        Comment

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