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How does this photo look to H/J riders?

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  • How does this photo look to H/J riders?

    My daughter posted this a few weeks ago in the Eventing forum of her jumping her green WB cross mare cross-country. Someone commented that she didn't look huntery...more like an eventer.
    What does that mean and do you agree? Someone suggested that she submit it to GM in Practical Horseman which she did (she's 14 and optimistic) Other than turnout...would she be clobbered if he critiqued it?


  • #2
    Um Yes , On so many levels.. But since she was at an eventing clinic why are you asking for a critque as a hunter ? I would think that this should be critqued over in the eventer form.


    • #3
      your daughter looks very good

      they are refering to "huntery" becasue she has the seat/posture of an hunter rider. to some eventers, it might look like a hunter pair on a cross country jump. but still, she and her horse look very good. if u were to send it in to GM, he would not clobber her, maybe just give out a few handy hints


      • Original Poster

        My daughter did submit it on the eventing forum. I was curious about the difference. And since GM does critique eventing photos although he is a HJ pro...I just wondered.


        • #5
          Eventers tend to get into a more defensive position. You can see that in the photo, the rider looks like she has a fairly open hip angle and her seat is pretty close to the saddle. This is good for XC, as it helps keep you safe if the horse stumbles on landing or slips, but in show jumping, it can lead to knocking rails down behind. Hunters and jumpers really want to encourage a good bascule from the horse- hunters b/c they're judged on it, jumpers to help the horse get over the higher fences. Eventers generally don't want a huge bascule (esp. when going XC), because it increases air time (which adds up and makes the time harder to get), takes more physically out of the horse, and can be detrimental if, say, you've got a huge drop on the landing side of a fence.

          GM will probably say she needs to release more, which I would agree with, although I don't know the horse. He will also probably comment on her seat being too close to the saddle, which would be a bad thing in the hunter or jumper ring (b/c it discourages the bascule). Personally, I don't think her seat is bad, she looks very secure and overall has a very nice position. I doubt she'll get clobbered by GM, although he might cringe at the rider's turnout and the colored saddle pad. Plus, the horse is a cute jumper and nice and clean, which GM always respects.


          • Original Poster

            Thanks Eventer...that's exactly what I wanted to know.


            • #7
              I saw this pic in the original post and have to say that I think your daughter rocks! Sure there are a few things that GM could pick on, but the overall picture is of a safe, secure ride over this fairly substantial fence. IMHO, there is *FAR* more going right here than not and she's well on her way to being a more effective rider than many others we see of the same age. Granted, that's just my opinion of this pair over this fence on this day at the second that the pic was snapped, but I'd be pleased as punch if any of my pics came out this well. And I've been riding longer than this kid has been alive!
              Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

              You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.


              • #8
                even in eventing, the horse needs to use its back. she's sitting way to much, especially over a decent sized fence. She doesn't even look like she's getting out of her horse's way at all. I would suggest more release and a better jumping position, because even for a defensive seat, this is taking it too far as to be sitting on the horse's back.
                and I have evented, so I'm not just some hunter spouting off on the virtues of hunter land.
                also, in regards to GM, I think he will most definitely kill her for that, and her orange shirt. He'll say he likes your horse, though.
                Oldenburgs do it better

                rip mystic puddin' 1984-2006
                rip banacek 1992-2007


                • #9
                  I think she looks pretty good but...but even as an eventer...I would want to know what she looks like in the next two frames of that photo. Yes in eventing you want to stick close with your seat...but you don't want to sit on their back over the fence...she isn't in this frame of the photo...but I suspect that she might be in the next two. What I'm wondering is if she is going to land in the top of her thigh or instead is going to sit on his back on landing......can't tell from this photo but it is just a gut impression that I'm getting. I'm thinking that this photo caught her at just the right moment but that she is starting to fall back into the saddle and isn't really going to continue to stay with him....maybe I'm wrong.

                  This is just as important in eventing as in jumpers...you want to give them freedom to use their back, and not land on them which might cause them to drop their hind end. Also...landing with them...in the top of your thigh and off their back....encourages them to land and go (gallop on) which is critical to make time on xc.

                  I do think she should be very happy with that picture and she has a cutie of a horse! Love her leg position, and how she is up and open with her chest....she looks well on her way to a solid position but as I said...just curious as to what the next few frames would show as they may actually be more instructive. I'm thinking at this point in the jump...I'd like to see her upper body stay where it is but her hip angle closed just a touch more...and I mean just a touch. As one poster said...more to like about that photo than to dislike.
                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **


                  • #10
                    Agree with bornfreenowexpensive that the next two frames would be really interesting to see... But since we are basing our adventures in critiquing on just this photo, I am going to go a weensy bit out on a limb here and say that she is giving her horse plenty of room to jump here, as well as doing a great job of staying with him and supporting him during a big, green (but good!) jumping effort. Her lower leg is down and right under her, it has not slipped forward so I think she is not likely to come back too soon. Her hip angle is definitely a little open, but her hand and arm are not restrictive.

                    I'll bet George will cry a little bit about the plaid pad and apricot sweater, but I'll also bet that he sees way more to like than dislike about both horse and rider.


                    • #11
                      I like her leg but the overrall feeling I get from this pic is a green horse giving a big effort and the rider being left behind just a little (although hard to tell without knowing the next few frames) and using his mouth to keep her balance. I know George pretty well and have ridden with him quite a bit so I think those are the main things he'll pick on. He'll like her eyes and the fact she seems gutsy. Her turnout will be picked apart for sure but he'll love her pony. I have a feeling he'll pick on the horses turn out however and suggest more time with a curry comb to get that nice shiny bloom in his coat.


                      • #12
                        WTW - what are you seeing on the horse's coat? I see sparkling white and a shine where the light is hitting it behind the saddle. I think that would be something she'd get praise on.

                        Otherwise, agree with BFNE across the boards - she's doing a nice job, but I do wonder if she drops back a bit early. Also, her weight's a bit more in her knee than sinking into her heels. Her turnout is a bit disorganized - shirt untucked, hair flopping. Nothing wrong with it for schooling, but GM (or many clinicians) would not be a big fan. Adorable pony, though it looks like he's jumping past the point of the arc a bit (not a great distance coming in).


                        • #13
                          I too, see a horse giving a fairly impressive effort over this fence and rider doing her best to stay with the horse. I also agree that I'd like to see the next two frames. I think it has the potential to not be such a pretty picture.

                          However, I'm not saying that to be a meanie. I think rider likely did a good job of not being jumped out of the tack, but didn't quite no what to expect, hence is a bit locked and ungiving in her hand and arm due to that "what could happen" moment in time as well as a bit open in her hip. If she landed into her heel and gave with her hand and closed her upper body a bit on the landing, then she's doing really well with this greenie. Heck, she just plain looks like she's doing well with this greenie.

                          Yes, she certainly looks more like an eventer than a hunter here. She's a nice rider. I hope to see her pic come up in the GM critiques, since she sent it in. What a lovely horse.

                          "Aye God, Woodrow..."


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GotSpots View Post
                            WTW - what are you seeing on the horse's coat? I see sparkling white and a shine where the light is hitting it behind the saddle. I think that would be something she'd get praise on.
                            I'm not seeing the shine that you are I guess. His coat looks a little rough to me. Could just be that this was taken in winter and is the result of a winter coat but from taking lessons and lots of clinics with George it is something he would notice/make a comment on. But maybe it's just my comp/eyes..the photo is pixelated a little on my screen.


                            • #15
                              Thats a good picture of your daughter and her pony, but I wouldn't send it to GM.


                              • #16
                                Darling horse, and cute rider. GM might like to see her stirrup placed farther forward on the ball of her foot so that she can drop her weight into her heels more. Just a suggestion.