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Judges: how would you judge this eq class scenario?

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  • Judges: how would you judge this eq class scenario?

    You are judging a medal flat phase. You have called for the ring to walk and reverse directions, but do not specify a method of reverse. You see one rider reverse with a correct turn on the haunches from the walk. Do you take note of this? Has that rider moved up in your estimation? Does it affect the way you will pin that rider? Do you ignore it, or mark it down, because you did not specifically call for a turn on the haunch to reverse?

    This came up today and I am curious to see if the answer I got today was personal preference or the way it's done.
    Last edited by Renn/aissance; Jun. 25, 2009, 08:50 PM.
    "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

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  • #2
    My trainer is an 'R' judge and marks down for something like that; if she did not ask for it, she does not wish to see it.

    Edited to add: It's sort of like if the judge asked for a posting trot and one exhibitor did an extended trot to show off. Not necessary and not asked for.
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    • #3
      I rode a lot of eq and never considered or saw anyone do a turn on the haunches in a flat class. A half turn was generally the way to go unless otherwise specified.
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      • #4
        Not a judge, but I agree with supershorty- I've always been taught that in an eq class, you don't "add" anything that you're not specifically asked to do.
        friend of bar.ka

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        • #5
          At best it's a wash because it was not asked for and may even have been sort of a road block in a big class.

          Personally, I would not minus it but they would not get any pluses either-and if they screwed it up it would not sit well with me as they tried to show off and blew it.

          You always have to give a little leeway as the announcer may not have given a clear command. BUT Eq riders are usually, and correctly, schooled to do what is asked and not hang themselves with rope not provided, if you get my drift here.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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          • #6
            Responding to the judges directions is like Simon Says. If everybody was asked to walk...and then halt....and then asked to reverse, then the only option is to do a turn on the haunches or turn on the forehand. BUT, if that judge directed the class to walk...and then just said reverse, there would be absolutely NO reason to halt, do a turn on the haunches and then proceed to walk forward. Simon Says!
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            • #7
              Originally posted by findeight View Post
              At best it's a wash because it was not asked for and may even have been sort of a road block in a big class.

              Personally, I would not minus it but they would not get any pluses either-and if they screwed it up it would not sit well with me as they tried to show off and blew it.

              You always have to give a little leeway as the announcer may not have given a clear command. BUT Eq riders are usually, and correctly, schooled to do what is asked and not hang themselves with rope not provided, if you get my drift here.
              Agreed on all points!
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Daventry View Post
                BUT, if that judge directed the class to walk...and then just said reverse, there would be absolutely NO reason to halt, do a turn on the haunches and then proceed to walk forward. Simon Says!
                You do a turn on the haunches FROM the walk..no halt...so technically, you ARE following the judges direction. Just like you could choose to do a half turn in reverse, a half turn, cut across the diagonal, etc.

                I think the turn on the haunches was to Reverse in an Eq class as the Sitting trot was to the opening circle in Eq. It was a fad to show that you could do something well. But a lot of people couldn't do it well and judges got tired of seeing it done poorly.

                If I could do a TOH well, I might do it. If the judges doesn't like it, so be it. But I would only attempt it if I thought I could do it realy well.
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                • #9
                  I announce, frequently for R judges who are very specific. If they want a turn on the haunches they will ask for a reverse with a turn on the haunches. If they want a walk/reverse and continue to walk, they will tell me to ask for that.

                  It IS Simon says-if you are not sure it was specifically asked for, do NOT hang yourself by demonstrating it. Actually, a turn on the haunch in a big flat class is asking for trouble-best saved for a work off or test...especially of you are the only person trying to pivot while everybody else is already going the other way-puts you broadside of the rest of the traffic.
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                  • #10
                    If everybody was asked to walk...and then halt....and then asked to reverse, then the only option is to do a turn on the haunches or turn on the forehand.
                    I'm pretty sure a turn on the haunches done correctly is done through the walk. So, the only correct way to do a reverse from a halt is a turn on the forehand.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by findeight View Post
                      If they want a walk/reverse and continue to walk, they will tell me to ask for that.
                      Do they tell you how? As I previously said, there are many ways to walk/reverse.

                      Originally posted by findeight View Post
                      especially of you are the only person trying to pivot while everybody else is already going the other way-puts you broadside of the rest of the traffic.
                      I don't understand this. At some point, each horse is broadside of the "traffic" when reversing. In fact, a TOH takes up less space than any other type of reverse, so you would be less in the way.

                      FWIW, I usually won't get all fancy. I keep it pretty simple: but a TOH is in keeping with a walk/reverse command...and it WAS the fad not too many years ago (well...maybe it was more than I care to admit).
                      Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                      Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                        You do a turn on the haunches FROM the walk..no halt...so technically, you ARE following the judges direction. Just like you could choose to do a half turn in reverse, a half turn, cut across the diagonal, etc.
                        Actually, a turn on the haunches can either be executed from the walk or the halt. My point is, Simon Says. If the judge didn't ask for it, there's no need to throw it in there!
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Daventry View Post
                          Actually, a turn on the haunches can either be executed from the walk or the halt. My point is, Simon Says. If the judge didn't ask for it, there's no need to throw it in there!
                          I beg to disagree about it properly being executed from the halt - just not possible. You have to keep the walk rhythm in a turn on the haunches. If you try it from the halt, you will be pivoting on the hind legs, not picking them up in the walk rhythm and placing them back down in the same or very similar spot.

                          But, I totally agree that you shouldn't do it if its not asked for- a properly executed turn on the haunches is at best dead even with the rest. I'd rather not see it if I didn't ask for it- but I probably wouldn't knock someone who does it right.

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                          • #14
                            This is interesting to me. A trainer at the farm where I ride is a small-time judge and one of the first thing she did when she started teaching there was have everyone learn the turn on the haunches, saying that it's perfect for reversing directions in flat classes.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                              Do they tell you how? As I previously said, there are many ways to walk/reverse.

                              I don't understand this. At some point, each horse is broadside of the "traffic" when reversing.
                              The typical command is "reverse and continue to walk" which means you just do a half turn and go the other way without breaking gait.

                              When you try to turn on the haunches with the butt on the rail you ARE broadside to the rest of the traffic that just turned around and went the other way along the main track next to the rail. I see at least one get hung up on this-or get others hung up on them- at most shows with big classes. Not pretty. If you insist on doing what is not asked for, you better be darned quick about it and get out of the way.
                              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                              • #16
                                I am ok with it, and have seen it in flat phases that I've judged. If performed though, it better be darn near perfect!

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by joiedevie99 View Post
                                  I beg to disagree about it properly being executed from the halt - just not possible. You have to keep the walk rhythm in a turn on the haunches. If you try it from the halt, you will be pivoting on the hind legs, not picking them up in the walk rhythm and placing them back down in the same or very similar spot.
                                  I've practiced turn on the haunches from a halt with my dressage trainer and done them properly without pivoting. Sure, you have to ride more with your seat to get the rhythm back, but it's definitely possible!
                                  "Last time I picked your feet, you broke my toe!"

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                                  • #18
                                    On a lighter note:

                                    In my first flat class of my first show I backed my pony when the judge called for a change of direction/reverse.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Renn/aissance View Post
                                      I am curious to see if the answer I got today was personal preference or the way it's done.
                                      This is a thing that will be personal preference for each individual judge, so unless you know what that particular judge prefers, it's safer not to do it.

                                      I don't count against it if it's done well, but I will not be impressed if it's not done well.

                                      Some judges definitely take off points for it, even if it's done well, if they didn't ask for it.

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Thanks to all for all of your responses. This came up in a clinic with a BNT today. He was talking about making yourself seen and attracting the judge's eye in the flat phase, so when he called us to "walk; reverse and walk" I reversed turn on the haunches from the walk. He said that because he had not asked for that I was not getting any points from it and that I should have just turned around. I was coming sort of from where RugBug was; I seem to remember either watching people do it to reverse or hearing about people doing it, so I've done it in flat phases to reverse before. This is the first time I've heard feedback on it. I'm glad to hear everyone's different points of view--it's educational!
                                        "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

                                        Amy's Stuff - Rustic chic and country linens and decor
                                        Support my mom! She's gotta finance her retirement horse somehow.

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