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Why do experienced riders snag the Novice classes!

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  • #41
    Originally posted by RugBug
    In this case, I wouldn't let the child show any longer until she can do the w/t/c. If she wins every w/t class, it's time she figured out cantering in a group. IT's a good life lesson in sportsmanship to have her wait to show until she can go up to the next level.

    At 34 years old, I am faced with a similar decision. I'm not winning all my classes, but I really ought to move up...and was going to this year. But after a riding injury (haven't ridden in 8 months and not sure when I will be able to get back on), I'm not sure I will move up. I just told my trainer that I didn't want to show again until I was ready for the next division. I just don't want to go back to the little stuff again. I still qualify for it, I just don't want to stay there forever.

    My horse is capable of doing 3'6", but I certainly am not. We were doing 2'3" last year, this year was to be 2'6" but depending on the psychological fallout of my injury, who knows where I will be. If I did go back to 2'3", I am sure there would be people questioning why I was in there...even though I regularly get beat by kids. (I tend to do better in the hunter stuff as my horse is fancier than what most "green riders" are on, but am in lower ribbons in eq).
    It is her first year of showing and she needs to get ring miles somewhere....

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by HHG-N
      It is her first year of showing and she needs to get ring miles somewhere....
      Well, see that illustrates that you never know the details. If she's in her first year of showing, more power to ya.
      Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
      Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

      Comment


      • #43
        7 y.o hardly forever

        Originally posted by HHG-N
        I train a bunch of kids and ponies. One student wins every single walk/trot class at the shows. Other trainers have asked why I don't move her up. Well, the truth is that she is 7 yrs old and terrified to canter with a group. I would not risk this child's safety in order for other kids to win a blue in the walk/trot division. You don't always know the story behind the winners...
        To the other posters:

        It is hard for me to think of a 7 year old being so dominant (over time) - even if she wins for a year or more, that is still not that long.

        DO you think they tell the boys to stop winning at track, at baseball, at soccer because they're too good for the other boys, so they have to move up to give someone else a chance? (at 7 years old) I don't think so. What message are you trying to send the little girl 'don't be a winner' ???

        For 7years old, let her get her confidence. It's walk trot for pete's sake.

        When I was in juniors, I spent my entire junior career behind a very successful pair of sisters in my hometown. They were my age, their mom was a professional, and they were terrific riders. I don't think I (or anyone else) beat them for a decade. If they were in the class, they got the blue. Such is life.
        Forward...go forward

        Comment


        • #44
          I have had a hard time with this lately. I rode and showed EXTENSIVELY on both the local and A circuits for a number of years. I skipped the pony ring, went right onto a horse at 11 (even though I probably could have ridden a medium ) and went straight into the childrens hunter where I consistently won, did the 3' eq medels, then went onto the working hunter on the local circuit (3'6") where I was year end champion. I was on a SAINT, and we had an awesome bond. Then I retired him and went into the jumper ring where I did the children/adult and junior/amatures. I also did the USET medal and adult hunters for a while on the eq horse I leased.

          Fast forward four years since I really showed (rode a greenie in the hopefuls a couple times three years ago), I have not consistently ridden other than the greenie and a pony for about 6 months due to lack of a horse and I have had a baby, so no saddle time for nearly nine months (could not ride due to ligament stretching). I have a green mare who was a dressage horse in her previous life and just started jumping.

          So I took her to a local show a few weeks ago and trainer (who was not my trainer before, but knew me and my horses) signed me up for the Long Stirrup. According to the rules I do qualify since I have not shown in so long. I was really hesitant to go into this division, since I do have a lot of experience and I am an experinced rider returning from time off. My trainer and I had a talk and we will do this division for my horses sake and because I am not in shape to get around 2'6" yet. It is where she needs to be right now and as soon as we are able we will move up.

          I would feel horrible if I was to "chase points" in this division. That would not be fair to those who are new to the riding sport. I am glad that I did show in this division though, because it was a great learning experience for the mare and a great way to get my feet wet.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by MyGiantPony
            I guess it's all about what you want to get out of showing. I don't care about tight competition or tack shops. I'm just looking for an enjoyable day spent with friends. We're lucky enough to have several nice show grounds and stables in the area.

            Beyond which - spending $500 a weekend, much less $1000, is never going to happen. I'm a middle class single mom on a tight budget.
            Shoot--my reply just *vanished*.

            Anyhoo, lucky you! Our good locals disappeared for awhile because a big A show management team came in and took over the new facility. So, all we were left was big, expensive A's or bad, bad locals (bad meaning scarey horse non-management and questionable management), and the occasional good local show. The locals are making a comeback however.

            So, our options were to either go to the big shows or risk life and limb at the bad locals. I've done both, and the local showers complain about the "rich A show people and their fancy, trainer-made horses" and how we buy our wins and can't really ride. Okay, I'm so rich that I can't show this year (and perhaps next) because I have a new apartment. My fancy show horse cost a quarter of what an average car goes for, and all his "professional" training was done by a professional teacher taking one lesson a week.

            What is the point of this long-winded reply?

            a. I'm bored--this is finals week and I have NO students this hour
            b. yet another spin on "everyone has a reason" to show where/what level they show
            "And now . . .off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums."

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Alpha Mare
              To the other posters:

              It is hard for me to think of a 7 year old being so dominant (over time) - even if she wins for a year or more, that is still not that long.

              DO you think they tell the boys to stop winning at track, at baseball, at soccer because they're too good for the other boys, so they have to move up to give someone else a chance? (at 7 years old) I don't think so. What message are you trying to send the little girl 'don't be a winner' ???
              It has nothing to do with the fact that the rider is a girl. I would say the same thing if it were a boy.

              If I was a coach and had an athlete, boy or girl, that was too good for the teams they were playing against/levels competing at...I would point them to a harder division...be it soccer, baseball, volleyball, golf, whatever....

              It is NOT about giving someone else a chance at winning. It is about competing at a level that matches your skills. It's called sportsmanship. Showing is a test. If you are constantly winning, you've aced the test already. Now it is time to take a harder test. Taking the same test over and over is pointless. You might have to study for a while before you get to take the new test, but at least your progressing.

              Personally, if this seven year old was my student, I would probably have it as her goal to be in the w/t/c by mid to end of the season. Her lessons would be in a group so that she practices cantering in a group and gains the necessary skills. I would NOT want her to think it's okay to continually win every w/t class. I would discuss with her that she is only there getting experience, but that real progress needs to be made toward w/t/c.
              Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
              Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

              Comment


              • #47
                Wendy123

                You really never know the reason people do what they do; unless you ask (and even then you only get what they 'tell' you)? Possibly, the more 'experienced rider', in this case, needed a practice show and this was the most convenient or only show available for her to do so? Who knows?

                Horsezee

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by MyGiantPony
                  I had a real battle on my hands when we designed the prize list for this year's series. I really wanted an All Age Beginner division, with no restrictions. My point was - we had several adults that will forever be beginners, no matter how long they ride. Last year, we didn't fill short OR long stirrup - so I convinced the committee to put in the all age beginner. The prize list states that it's on the honor system. We had no problems with it on Sunday.
                  At my barn's local shows, they have a Beginner Division, and if it's large enough, they split it into Juniors and Adults. This seems to be a pretty good solution; the Adult section ends up being a mixed bag of green and experienced horses and riders.

                  I'm another experienced rider showing in baby classes. In my case, I grew up eventing, took a long break from competing, and decided to try this hunter thing on a new horse. All that adds up to easy classes for me, please. I was worried about sandbagging, but I ended up having two fun, confidence-building shows, which was just what I needed. I do agree that riders who consistently win at the baby levels need to step up. There's not much glory in winning against greenies over tiny fences for years!
                  "A canter is a cure for every evil." -Benjamin Disraeli

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    I do not think that anyone should stay in a division just to rack up points and blue ribbons. If you're capable of doing more but maybe not be the winner so be it. My daughter did W/T for all of 2 months and moved into SS. It was unfair for her to remain in a division that she completely dominated. She needed the challenge to make her a better rider. She has now moved to the 3' Children's Hunters and has to pay her dues. For the most part the trips are very good but a bauble here and there keeps her out of the high ribbons. That's the breaks...it isn't fair to stagnate in a division just because you may not win at a higher level. It would be like holding a child in Kindergarten for a couple of years because they really mastered the alphabet but were afraid of learning how to read. Just my opinion!

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #50
                      Originally posted by Horsezee
                      Wendy123

                      You really never know the reason people do what they do; unless you ask (and even then you only get what they 'tell' you)? Possibly, the more 'experienced rider', in this case, needed a practice show and this was the most convenient or only show available for her to do so? Who knows?

                      I wouldn't put someone in that position as I think it would be rude. I didn't mean to harp on it or bash anyone just share my little fustration (after going to 3 different shows this last month) of some riders that seem to be chasing points so to speak instead of letting the beginners have a moment or two of glory. I say if it is not fun don't do it so I won't let this spoil our fun but it doesnt' mean I don't have a geeeezzzzzz moment here and there either. I am just your typical overprotective mom

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        Originally posted by DuendeDuncan
                        I do not think that anyone should stay in a division just to rack up points and blue ribbons. If you're capable of doing more but maybe not be the winner so be it. My daughter did W/T for all of 2 months and moved into SS. It was unfair for her to remain in a division that she completely dominated. She needed the challenge to make her a better rider. She has now moved to the 3' Children's Hunters and has to pay her dues. For the most part the trips are very good but a bauble here and there keeps her out of the high ribbons. That's the breaks...it isn't fair to stagnate in a division just because you may not win at a higher level. It would be like holding a child in Kindergarten for a couple of years because they really mastered the alphabet but were afraid of learning how to read. Just my opinion!
                        Well said.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by magnolia73
                          it is time to go play in the 2'6 divisions at A shows or something instead of winning locally year after year after year.
                          Not all of us can afford that - or want to. At a local show I can enter a division and school for less then $100 - I can't do that at an A show when you add in drug fees, office fees, plus the cost of joining USEF (which I won't do - since I get NO benefits from doing so since my classes aren't pointed and they never seem to drug test the unrated classes). Why would I want to pay more to do the rated shows when I like the atmosphere, the management and the comradery of the local circuits (the banquets, the people you always see, the NICE prizes, etc).
                          Sarah ( & Regal)

                          what doesn't kill you makes you stronger -
                          unless it breaks your heart first

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Wendy123
                            I didn't mean to harp on it or bash anyone just share my little fustration (after going to 3 different shows this last month) of some riders that seem to be chasing points so to speak instead of letting the beginners have a moment or two of glory.
                            As I said before, if someone is eligible for the division, they are entitled to enter it. If the division is open to many skill levels, why should I feel obligated to "let" someone else have a moment of glory in a division I'm eligible to enter? That's why there are beginner divisions--so the beginners can compete against one another on an even playing field.

                            You can debate WHY people stay in the lower levels and whether or not they really should move on. But chasing points and racking up blue ribbons is a fact of life.
                            Old age means realizing you will never own all the dogs you wanted to.--Joe Gores

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Wendy123
                              I wouldn't put someone in that position as I think it would be rude. I didn't mean to harp on it or bash anyone just share my little fustration (after going to 3 different shows this last month) of some riders that seem to be chasing points so to speak instead of letting the beginners have a moment or two of glory. I say if it is not fun don't do it so I won't let this spoil our fun but it doesnt' mean I don't have a geeeezzzzzz moment here and there either. I am just your typical overprotective mom
                              Wendy

                              I truly understand what you are saying. My daughter won the Jr. Eq. year end award championship for a local H/J association. She and I agree that she should give another junior a chance at winning that award. So even though she is 'eligible'; she is NOT riding in the Jr. Eq. division at the 'un-rated' association shows. She is competing in this division at rated shows, so some of those show points show up in the standings.

                              She has also offered her horse to the girl who came in second behind her last year. We felt that since my daughter's horse is a better flat horse than hers, she would have a better chance. They will both be trying this next month when they ride in different age groups.

                              Horsezee

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                geez...and I didn't allow myself to do long stirrup and have done very little novice just because I won and jumped over 4' 42 years ago. I felt guilty doing novice and ineligible to do longstirrup. Doesn't anyone read what the rules say? I did not know that we could interpret the rules to our own needs.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Another option for those who are disgruntled, is to approach the organisers and see if these regular ribbon-robbers can be made to ride HC - that way they compete, get marks, know where they came, without taking away from others who might otherwise win/place if they weren't there. That's a diplomatic approach.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    You must have blinders on.........

                                    I am sorry but you are the first person that does not admit to the politics in the H/J world. Us eventers are VERY aware of how the H/J's feel about the "SPORT" of eventing. Facts are facts, the more $$$$ you have the better you are treated in the H/J world. Doesn't take a great rider to win there. Not a real sport when ya really think about it. Buying your wins....eeeekkksss, how sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                    Originally posted by Boston Chicken
                                    Ummmm 3day, there are plenty of classes for novice riders and green horses in the hunter/jumper world. There are also plenty of reasons why adults and children stay in them, and are perfectly eligible to do so. It's not all about politics and it certainly isn't all about money. I don't know where a statement like "other horse sports laugh hunter/jumpers" is going to get you on the H/J forum.
                                    God Bless

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      You don't see hunter/jumper riders heckling eventing over on the eventing board. Why - particularly as a new poster - do it here?

                                      To make blanket statements like you have (buying wins for example) shows spectacular ignorance - either that or the remnants of a bad experience. And "us eventers are VERY aware of how the H/J's feel about the 'SPORT' of eventing." I am guessing that a great majority of the regular eventing posters wouldn't make gross generalizations as you have. As an aside, I love eventing...or any sport with horses. So don't presume to speak for me or anyone else here unless you know from where you speak.

                                      Politics exist in every subjective activity.

                                      Horse sports are expensive.

                                      Enjoy your COTH experience
                                      *Faune D'Helby*

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Thank you!

                                        We are all entitled to our opinion.

                                        Originally posted by Boston Chicken
                                        You don't see hunter/jumper riders heckling eventing over on the eventing board. Why - particularly as a new poster - do it here?

                                        To make blanket statements like you have (buying wins for example) shows spectacular ignorance - either that or the remnants of a bad experience. And "us eventers are VERY aware of how the H/J's feel about the 'SPORT' of eventing." I am guessing that a great majority of the regular eventing posters wouldn't make gross generalizations as you have. As an aside, I love eventing...or any sport with horses. So don't presume to speak for me or anyone else here unless you know from where you speak.

                                        Politics exist in every subjective activity.

                                        Horse sports are expensive.

                                        Enjoy your COTH experience
                                        God Bless

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by 3dayeventing
                                          I am sorry but you are the first person that does not admit to the politics in the H/J world. Us eventers are VERY aware of how the H/J's feel about the "SPORT" of eventing. Facts are facts, the more $$$$ you have the better you are treated in the H/J world. Doesn't take a great rider to win there. Not a real sport when ya really think about it. Buying your wins....eeeekkksss, how sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                          Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but you really have NO idea what you are talking about.

                                          Comment

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