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Why do experienced riders snag the Novice classes!

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  • #21
    Originally posted by HHG-N
    I train a bunch of kids and ponies. One student wins every single walk/trot class at the shows. Other trainers have asked why I don't move her up. Well, the truth is that she is 7 yrs old and terrified to canter with a group. I would not risk this child's safety in order for other kids to win a blue in the walk/trot division. You don't always know the story behind the winners...

    I agree. You never know what the story is behind the rider and horse combination in that class unless you ask. People shouldnt just assume someone doesnt belong in a division because of their age (child vs. adult). I know more adults who are terrified to jump a 2 foot course than children.
    http://www.theloft-tackshop.com/

    http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/MD247.html

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    • #22
      Ummmm 3day, there are plenty of classes for novice riders and green horses in the hunter/jumper world. There are also plenty of reasons why adults and children stay in them, and are perfectly eligible to do so. It's not all about politics and it certainly isn't all about money. I don't know where a statement like "other horse sports laugh hunter/jumpers" is going to get you on the H/J forum.
      *Faune D'Helby*

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      • #23
        But ya know, if you are afraid to jump higher than 2' or move up to cantering (after several shows at that level), maybe you should skip the shows and invest in some extra lessons. It just seems wrong, and you probably aren't doing the kids any favors. Maybe not showing would even provide incentive to work harder and overcome fearing the canter.

        A big part of showing should be taking pride in improvement. If you win all the time at walk trot or in the 2' division - you aren't really improving. I get staying in the division for a year if "chasing points" or a year end award is improtant, but beyond that, its time to take the chance and try and move up. If you really do have a limitation - say your horse can't go beyond 2'6, maybe after you have won that local award, it is time to go play in the 2'6 divisions at A shows or something instead of winning locally year after year after year.

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        • #24
          Agree with that, Magnolia.
          *Faune D'Helby*

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          • #25
            Originally posted by 3dayeventing
            First and formost, hunter/jumper shows are all show. Maybe the "novice" entry needed an ego boost. Sorry if I am offending those of you that ride in these shows, but it is really toooooooo darn political! Let those that are really "NOVCE" all around enter into their own division and or create a division that they can be competitive in. In the world of eventing there are classes set up for Novice Rider/Novice Horse/Open Novice (for trainers) etc. This makes it FAIR! What a concept, maybe the H/J world needs to put ther ego's aside and figure out a way to help others and not just worry about who has the most $$$$. Other horse sports laugh at the H/J world, sorry to break it to ya guys, but its a fact!
            That's a very obnoxious and rude statement, and not funny at all.

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            • #26
              laugh away

              Other horse sports laugh at the H/J world? Glad we can provide some entertainment for you guys! Since we're all over the country, showing at every level, I guess we provide plenty of fodder. Enjoy!
              Old age means realizing you will never own all the dogs you wanted to.--Joe Gores

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              • #27
                I am just starting back, and needed the miles on Elliot again to feel confident enough to go back in the ring. Moving up is what I want to do more than anything.
                Seeing the same women on huge push button horses that are more than capable of doing higher than the L/Stirrup for 3 years and winning, or seeing women who are winning in the Adult Ammie classes also do the L/Stirrup is what I find most frustrating.
                http://community.webshots.com/user/cotswoldjr
                http://temp.hillcresttrainingnet.off...m/default.aspx
                [url]
                Starman Babies

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by 3dayeventing
                  First and formost, hunter/jumper shows are all show. Maybe the "novice" entry needed an ego boost. Sorry if I am offending those of you that ride in these shows, but it is really toooooooo darn political! Let those that are really "NOVCE" all around enter into their own division and or create a division that they can be competitive in. In the world of eventing there are classes set up for Novice Rider/Novice Horse/Open Novice (for trainers) etc. This makes it FAIR! What a concept, maybe the H/J world needs to put ther ego's aside and figure out a way to help others and not just worry about who has the most $$$$. Other horse sports laugh at the H/J world, sorry to break it to ya guys, but its a fact!
                  Ah, words of wisdom from one who knows not of what he/she speaks.

                  At least 'round these parts, there are classes that are restricted to help move people up the ranks in addition to "catch-all" divisions that are for "special needs" combinations. It all depends on the show/organization. For example, I've been to shows where one could therotically enter EVERY class from walk/trot to the 3ft. stuff, while others limit classes by restricting cross-entering divisions (beginners can't show higher than 2ft. 6in.; walk/trot can't show in any other divisions; beginners are out of the division at the end of the year after winning 3 firsts; etc.). Most of the division are restricted to amateurs as well--NO trainers in the eq!--and usually the restrictions severely cut down on the ribbon-poaching.

                  And yes, my (at the time) 13 years of experience and I showed one time an a walk/trot class because a beginner horse (figures) went once inside a VERY spooky new arena. So, I rode horsie in the class just to settle her down from her unexpected panic attack; we didn't win, so I guess I'm not rich/famous enough.
                  "And now . . .off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums."

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                  • #29
                    I understand the frustration of showing against more-experienced horses or riders. But every horse/rider combination has a unique set of experience, needs, and goals. If they are eligible to enter the class, then they are entitled to do so.
                    Old age means realizing you will never own all the dogs you wanted to.--Joe Gores

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                    • #30
                      well lets not forget when we "novices" who have been riding for years in small shows but classify as a novice blow a class and LOSE to an 11 year old...and it happens...a big ego boost for THEM and makes it all worth it..it just gets them working harder..and as long as everyone is having fun, no big deal..the ones who cry and get nasty, unfortunately will be the adults that bitch, piss and moan in the circuit shows or bigger...just my opinion

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Yours Truly
                        I understand the frustration of showing against more-experienced horses or riders. But every horse/rider combination has a unique set of experience, needs, and goals. If they are eligible to enter the class, then they are entitled to do so.
                        Well put. And completely agree.
                        http://www.theloft-tackshop.com/

                        http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/MD247.html

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                        • #32
                          Or, just tell the newbies to bid their time and then whoop some butt once they have the experience to do it. That's what I did (in additon to becoming rich, famous, and politically connected--bet I could win that walk/trot class now, darn it).
                          "And now . . .off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums."

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by magnolia73
                            it is time to go play in the 2'6 divisions at A shows or something instead of winning locally year after year after year.
                            Frankly, I really enjoy supporting our local organization. For $24 in entries, plus a few buck for lunch for my son and me, we had fun, hung out with good friends, got to ride a nice course - an OUTSIDE course, not stuck in a ring, and the horses were home, put up, and I was in my comfy rocking chair at 2:30 in the afternoon.

                            But hey, if you want to pay my shipping, hotels, entries, etc., sure, I'll do the A's instead of the local stuff.

                            On second thought - nah - I'd rather just keep having FUN.
                            http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

                            Originally Posted by JSwan
                            I love feral children. They taste like chicken.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by HHG-N
                              I train a bunch of kids and ponies. One student wins every single walk/trot class at the shows. Other trainers have asked why I don't move her up. Well, the truth is that she is 7 yrs old and terrified to canter with a group. I would not risk this child's safety in order for other kids to win a blue in the walk/trot division. You don't always know the story behind the winners...
                              In this case, I wouldn't let the child show any longer until she can do the w/t/c. If she wins every w/t class, it's time she figured out cantering in a group. IT's a good life lesson in sportsmanship to have her wait to show until she can go up to the next level.

                              At 34 years old, I am faced with a similar decision. I'm not winning all my classes, but I really ought to move up...and was going to this year. But after a riding injury (haven't ridden in 8 months and not sure when I will be able to get back on), I'm not sure I will move up. I just told my trainer that I didn't want to show again until I was ready for the next division. I just don't want to go back to the little stuff again. I still qualify for it, I just don't want to stay there forever.

                              My horse is capable of doing 3'6", but I certainly am not. We were doing 2'3" last year, this year was to be 2'6" but depending on the psychological fallout of my injury, who knows where I will be. If I did go back to 2'3", I am sure there would be people questioning why I was in there...even though I regularly get beat by kids. (I tend to do better in the hunter stuff as my horse is fancier than what most "green riders" are on, but am in lower ribbons in eq).
                              Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                              Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

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                              • #35
                                I am a semi-experienced rider (or so I'd like to think. lol) and I took my very young horse into some walk and walk/trot classes. I felt like an idiot with all the tiny little kids, but I had to start somewhere!
                                Last edited by Anticipation; Nov. 2, 2010, 02:19 PM.

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by MyGiantPony
                                  Frankly, I really enjoy supporting our local organization. For $24 in entries, plus a few buck for lunch for my son and me, we had fun, hung out with good friends, got to ride a nice course - an OUTSIDE course, not stuck in a ring, and the horses were home, put up, and I was in my comfy rocking chair at 2:30 in the afternoon.

                                  But hey, if you want to pay my shipping, hotels, entries, etc., sure, I'll do the A's instead of the local stuff.

                                  On second thought - nah - I'd rather just keep having FUN.
                                  Agreed. Magnolia73, the cost difference between showing at a local show and stepping up to the next level can be huge. Around my parts, it's almost $400 more just to step up to the next level local shows (occasionally "C" rated). Stalls, hotels, missing work, etc really add up. The price increase for an "A" show is even more. I just don't have that kind of money to spend on shows right now.
                                  Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                  Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

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                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by MyGiantPony
                                    Frankly, I really enjoy supporting our local organization. For $24 in entries, plus a few buck for lunch for my son and me, we had fun, hung out with good friends, got to ride a nice course - an OUTSIDE course, not stuck in a ring, and the horses were home, put up, and I was in my comfy rocking chair at 2:30 in the afternoon.

                                    But hey, if you want to pay my shipping, hotels, entries, etc., sure, I'll do the A's instead of the local stuff.

                                    On second thought - nah - I'd rather just keep having FUN.
                                    Actually, I have more fun at the A's--at least around here, the facilities are better, the tack shops pop out (a treat for a rural gal, ya know ), the competition is tighter (and the 3 ft and above classes actually run!), the judging is more consistent (at least for the rich and famous, such as moi), and there is more to watch. The money isn't *that* much different for me because even the "local" shows require motels and stabling--probably about $500 for a local and $850 to $1000 for an A (there aren't any options in between).
                                    "And now . . .off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums."

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                                    • #38
                                      Whether or not a person decides to stay in the lower divisions for the rest of their life or move on to the next division is ENTIRELY their decision. Ditto for A shows. Some folks don't want to go to the A shows and therefore don't see local shows as a step toward the A shows. If someone is happy staying in their comfort zone, and is not interested in moving up, what's the big deal? Hey, different strokes.
                                      Old age means realizing you will never own all the dogs you wanted to.--Joe Gores

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                                      • #39
                                        Another great point

                                        Originally posted by Yours Truly
                                        Whether or not a person decides to stay in the lower divisions for the rest of their life or move on to the next division is ENTIRELY their decision. Ditto for A shows. Some folks don't want to go to the A shows and therefore don't see local shows as a step toward the A shows. If someone is happy staying in their comfort zone, and is not interested in moving up, what's the big deal? Hey, different strokes.
                                        I had a real battle on my hands when we designed the prize list for this year's series. I really wanted an All Age Beginner division, with no restrictions. My point was - we had several adults that will forever be beginners, no matter how long they ride. Last year, we didn't fill short OR long stirrup - so I convinced the committee to put in the all age beginner. The prize list states that it's on the honor system. We had no problems with it on Sunday.
                                        http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

                                        Originally Posted by JSwan
                                        I love feral children. They taste like chicken.

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Flufie2
                                          Actually, I have more fun at the A's--at least around here, the facilities are better, the tack shops pop out (a treat for a rural gal, ya know ), the competition is tighter (and the 3 ft and above classes actually run!), the judging is more consistent (at least for the rich and famous, such as moi), and there is more to watch. The money isn't *that* much different for me because even the "local" shows require motels and stabling--probably about $500 for a local and $850 to $1000 for an A (there aren't any options in between).
                                          I guess it's all about what you want to get out of showing. I don't care about tight competition or tack shops. I'm just looking for an enjoyable day spent with friends. We're lucky enough to have several nice show grounds and stables in the area.

                                          Beyond which - spending $500 a weekend, much less $1000, is never going to happen. I'm a middle class single mom on a tight budget.
                                          http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

                                          Originally Posted by JSwan
                                          I love feral children. They taste like chicken.

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