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Would you owe a commission?

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  • Would you owe a commission?

    I originally posted a question, from a conversation with a friend who was upset with her trainer. As often happens, things got blown out of whack and I have since learned additional information. The friend had ridden with this trainer for quite awhile and considered a close friend .........and I guess it's really hard to mix business and friendship. Feelings were hurt, and I threw a post out there.....and whew it's taken a life of it's own!!
    As often happens, there are always two sides of a story.....so the moral of this story is......trainers and clients should communicate better..not only before a deal, but if a problem arises after it as well!
    Last edited by florida foxhunter; May. 23, 2009, 06:40 PM.
    www.flyingcolorsfarm.comHome of pinto stallion Claim to Fame and his homozygous son, Counterclaim. Friend us on Facebook!https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fl...04678589573428

  • #2
    I would say no. Since she found the horse, made the arrangements. How far away was the horse? $450.00 in my opinion seems compensation enough.
    You didn't say, but did the trainer negotiate the sale price?
    If she did I can see where there could be a grey area.
    This is why it is always smart to get everything in writing/contracts before hand.
    Especially with a so-called friend!!!
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    • #3
      Ugh

      Sounds like an ugly situation, but since the trainer originally said she wasn't originally going to ask for one (which makes me think that she KNOWS she isn't really entitled to one), then I would say NO. Unless, of course, the trainer's standard contract lists a day rate for horse shopping, plus a fee upon the purchase of any horse viewed with the trainer's assistance (which to me sounds like double dipping), in which case, your friend was ignorant of the trainer's standard operating procedure, and might find herself having to pay a commission.

      However, I do think that it's the seller's responsibility to pay a commission (if the trainer had nothing to do with finding the horse, but merely looked with your friend, and said "Yes, it's suitable" I would think it would be a token, rather than a large commission if the trainer had done the search, and said, let's try this one, then it should be a standard commission.

      It's a problem when work and friendship cross a line.

      Years ago, a friend of mine who owned a barn met a guy, liked a horse he had to sell, and said she would try it at her barn, and see if any of her clients might be interested. A bunch of kids tried the horse, and after a month, I bought him. I found out later that the guy never gave my friend a commission, and he didn't even pay for a month's board. So I did pay the board for the horse for the month, and a small commission. I still have the horse and the friend.

      Your friend paid a fee for the trainer's time since the trainer wasn't going to be making money teaching lessons. That seems fair.

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      • #4
        Golly. I thought that the $450 was pretty bold. Especially for a "friend." Who bought lunch?
        madeline
        * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

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        • #5
          I would think you would not have to pay a commision if what was agreed on was a day fee. However if your friend does choose to pay a commision then I would subtract the $450 out of that. These things really should be discussed beforehand.
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          • #6
            Absolutely not. This is just getting crazy with so called "trainers" needing to make so much money for nothing. She paid her a day rate to see the horse that the client found herself and that her client bought on her own. There is NO commission due. She should pay a reasonable hourly rate and a lesson rate which she clearly did. Tell the trainer what a jerk they are and I would find a new trainer.

            In this economy people are getting desperate

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            • #7
              $450 bucks is a ton of money for someone else to do all the leg work and the driving so you can go "yep, buy it"

              I'd say this person is her friend only as long as she forks out the money so she is no friend at all. She does not owe her ex trainer any money and she should not pay. I would not expect this trainer to be trustworthy with anyone else either.
              http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

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              • #8
                So the trainer is irked that she is not getting the board/training fees out of the horse she assumed she would get?

                Oh well.
                Trainer was paid for the day trip, which is all that she's owed.
                Jen Evans & DaBear

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                • #9
                  no
                  breeder of Mercury!

                  remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Doberpei View Post
                    Sounds like an ugly situation, but since the trainer originally said she wasn't originally going to ask for one (which makes me think that she KNOWS she isn't really entitled to one), then I would say NO. Unless, of course, the trainer's standard contract lists a day rate for horse shopping, plus a fee upon the purchase of any horse viewed with the trainer's assistance (which to me sounds like double dipping), in which case, your friend was ignorant of the trainer's standard operating procedure, and might find herself having to pay a commission.

                    However, I do think that it's the seller's responsibility to pay a commission (if the trainer had nothing to do with finding the horse, but merely looked with your friend, and said "Yes, it's suitable" I would think it would be a token, rather than a large commission if the trainer had done the search, and said, let's try this one, then it should be a standard commission.

                    It's a problem when work and friendship cross a line.

                    Years ago, a friend of mine who owned a barn met a guy, liked a horse he had to sell, and said she would try it at her barn, and see if any of her clients might be interested. A bunch of kids tried the horse, and after a month, I bought him. I found out later that the guy never gave my friend a commission, and he didn't even pay for a month's board. So I did pay the board for the horse for the month, and a small commission. I still have the horse and the friend.

                    Your friend paid a fee for the trainer's time since the trainer wasn't going to be making money teaching lessons. That seems fair.
                    I don't think anyone owes a commission. especially not the seller, for crying out loud. The seller had no business relationship with the trainer. Why the hell should the seller pay them?
                    If the trainer had done all the work to find horses, etc then sure she should get a commission. As it is she was paid for the work she did.

                    I sold a horse about 6 months ago. I have a trainer. I ran several ads in the Chronicle, on various websites, etc. I paid the trainer a few times to show the horse, sent the horse there for training for a month. Trainer didn't bring me any buyers or show the horse to anyone. (not anything bad about the trainer, the horse was just a hard sell and the market now didn't help either) I sold the horse on my own, the trainer was not involved at all and never once did she say one peep about a commission. IMHO that would have been very penny wise and pound foolish because I would then not be training with her any longer.
                    The commission is to compensate the trainer for the legwork, phone calls, time they spent etc that they did and ads they ran to get the horse sold. No workie no money.
                    Last edited by Jaegermonster; May. 16, 2009, 05:51 PM.
                    "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

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                    • #11
                      It sounds to me like the trainer is being vindictive since they had a falling out. The trainer agreed no commission on the horse and now wants one because she's mad at the student. Shame on her. That is extremely unprofessional and your friend should be happy to be rid of her.

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                      • #12
                        best advice to your friend is that she does not legally owe any commission. There was no written or verbal agreement for such if the horse was purchased with the trainer's "help". A key factor is the trainer did charge her a day fee at the time and your friend paid that. That was the deal at the moment of the transaction.

                        The trainer is now trying to use "trainer power leverage" on your friend to have her feel bad or whatever--she won't like me anymore-who knows what--to get extra money out of your friend now that she is no longer a customer.

                        Further if she does pay even something more she is rewarding the trainer's bad behavior and that will just encourage the trainer to do this again to someone else.

                        Don't pay.
                        Discipline is the Bridge between Dreams and Accomplishments

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                        • #13
                          No - and since there was no contract the trainer is SOL. Does the trainer know what the horse was purchased for? If not, I think I'd tell the trainer sure, I'll pay commission in lieu of the day rate I paid, horse was $2500 at 10% commission - um Suzy trainer looks like you owe me $200. Thank you very much

                          Tell friend not to pay..

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                          • #14
                            Um, yeah, have to say a big "NO" to this. If person found the horse all on her own, trainer/friend did no leg work and made no calls and had nothing to do with the purchase, now she's just being a pill.

                            Sounds like she made some money by having the horse in training already, AND got a nice fat $450 for swinging by to look at the horse pre-sale. To me, it sounds like she might have really liked the horse and is maybe a tad angry that the horse was taken out of her full program and went home with the owner.

                            Nope, I'd suggest she either ignore the letter outright and just move on, or if she needs closure, call the trainer/friend and calmly explain that she doesn't owe her a dime and she's sorry the relationship had to end this way, but thanks for (insert whatever she thinks she can thank her for at this point).
                            "Aye God, Woodrow..."

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                            • #15
                              This trainer CHOSE to bill a day fee herself. She did not tell this person that IF she was involved at all with a purchase , she expected a commission, and she admits that. She was paid for services rendered once, and once is enough.

                              As a breeder I am so sick of the double dipping, i could vomit.
                              "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
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                              • #16
                                Yeah....double dipping is killing the integrity of horse sales. I say she owes the trainer nothing - she already got $450 out of her.
                                Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
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                                • #17
                                  Has a very similar situation happen to me when I recently bought my daughter a horse. Unfortunately it resulted in the trainer saying either pay up the commission or leave. We left. This was after twelve years with this said trainer. Usually when you don't pay, things get ugly, so be prepared with a back up plan in case you are asked to leave.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by florida foxhunter View Post
                                    Now they've had a bit of estrangement, and she got a bill with a note from the trainer saying she had not asked for a commission originally trying to help her be able to buy the horse, but now that she's taken the horse home, the trainer said she "hoped she would come forth with ta he commission owed".
                                    No, trainer does not get to retroactively charge a commission if that was not the original agreement. Now, if they had signed an agreement that the trainer would waive the commision in lieu of the buyers agreement to stay in training with the trainer for x amount of time, that would be a different story.

                                    Sounds to me like your friend is well rid of this trainer.
                                    Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.
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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Jaegermonster View Post
                                      The commission is to compensate the trainer for the legwork, phone calls, time they spent etc that they did and ads they ran to get the horse sold. No workie no money.


                                      If the trainer had found the horse, set up the trial and helped facilitate the purchase then yes, a commission would be owed but that doesn't seem to be the case.

                                      For my horse commission was paid to two people, the friend and brother in law of my coach who suggested one of the horses he was catch riding as a possible horse for me who we had previously ruled out as being too green and my coach who came with me tried the horse before me, gave me a lesson while I tried the horse and made sure the sale went smoothly. (Aka made sure our offer was accepted over another one of the same price).
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                                      • #20
                                        I vote NO commission!!!

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