• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

USOC hearing panel report

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Portia:
    Deal with it? Sorry, Beezer, that would be the professional and mature thing to do. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Cripes, yes ... what WAS I thinking?!??! Slaps self upside the head.

    The sad thing is, all that this crap is doing is reinforcing the outside perception that we horse people are a bunch of too-rich twits who have nothing better to do with our time and money than sit around and bicker. Now, I know that SOME people in the horse world fit that description [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] , but not all, not the majority. If the USET truly believes that that's how they want the rest of the world to perceive us, well ... I'm not gonna get in front of them if they want to pick up their dump trucks and leave our sandbox. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    ****Bulletin Board Goddess****
    Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!

    Comment


    • #42
      This is making me ill.
      \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

      Comment


      • #43
        Dumb question, but I'm blonde soooooo. . .

        If they declare a vacancy, does that mean that this mess just continues?

        Comment


        • #44
          YUP!!!

          Or as Bostonian suggested - the UET declares banckruptcy and "reoorganizes" under a new name - and with certain persons money behind them, they try for it....

          YUK
          co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

          Comment


          • #45
            We are watching the competitor and letting them convince us of their superiority.

            Just a little dash of reality please. Why assume that the USET which is so blantantly incompetent that they couldn't even follow the law regarding how to manage their own programs becomes brilliant? Let's better assume that their self-centered and ego-centric philosophies are what have defeated them so far. They haven't made one right move at the right time yet in this whole debacle.

            Why would they suddenly become such good insider traders? Why would they suddenly gain a genius mentality? I don't think so, all we have available are the rumors that they have started to create some insecurity and doubts on the side of the USAE, just a brain war and they are two cents short of a dollar.

            Look at their bargaining chips: 1. Out with Alan Balch (unachievable) 2. Cancel the 2nd part of a law suit they have already lost once and against the instructions of the USOC (unlikely) 3. They stay independent and are not required any oversight by USAE (equally unlikely) How is that intelligent?

            In their best case scenario, in their dreams for any justification at all would be that both get thrown out as NGB. If the USOC was thinking that way they would have done it until the hearings. The USOC didn't do that they left the USAE in as NGB. I believe they will give USAE a suitable period of time of have in place the International Divisions and the necessary athletes on all committees. Probation if you will! And at the end of that period they will finalize NGB because we know USAE can get it done.

            So the rumor that someone from the USOC said neither side will be "Happy" is equally explained and in an affirmative way.

            People who believe they are so important and singularly knowledgeable simply find it impossible to believe that any such program can be put in place without them. No doubt there has been a substantial pledge for mega dollars to the USOC which the USOC prefer not to lose but they are not suicidal. Any other decision could easily be raised to a higher court don't you think?

            I refuse to believe the the entire USOC and all of our Olympic movement is so taudry that it is totally for saale to the highest bidders. BUT, if they are let me tell you there will be the wrath of the Congress to deal with for them too.

            [This message was edited by Snowbird on Oct. 25, 2001 at 11:08 PM.]
            http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

            Comment


            • #46
              Snowbird - good post and good points.

              The "rumour" that someone said "and neither side will like it" is not a rumour - it was a statement of fact during the hearings by Bill Stapleton, the Chair of the hearing committee.
              co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

              Comment


              • #47
                A very dear friend of mine who was my mentor in years past always said that a good decision was one where both sides lose something and neither goes home happy.

                A scenario where the USAE is on probation to prove it can implement suitable programs without the USET is a logical and fair proposition.

                We know the USET is not indispensible and the job will get done with or without the the advice and consent of the USET.
                http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                Comment


                • #48
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
                  Why would they suddenly gain a genius mentality?

                  [This message was edited by Snowbird on Oct. 25, 2001 at 11:08 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  And here I would have settled for paranoid:^)

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    IF we were to take a page from uset's management book we would set up the international division like this:

                    endurance: Denny Emerson
                    jumper: Robert Ridland
                    eventing: David O'Connor
                    dressage: Lendon Gray
                    vaulting: Cindy Stys
                    driving: Chester Weber
                    reining: Kent Allen

                    As has already been stated, Jimmy W is taken by Canada. Now Cindy may have not ever seen vaulting but she is lithe and intelligent. Kent, well, again intelligent and just looks like he could get into reining.
                    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

                    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      and sigh.

                      I am far from an expert rider and just muddle along. I hope to start riding again shortly and am setting humble goals for myself.

                      I have been this way all my life. Even without a horse I consider myself a horsewoman.

                      I have always looked up to our international riders as mentors. Even those from other countries, they are our teachers. It is why I watch OLN ewvery week. It is why we begged for Sydney coverage on TV.

                      Once again those at the very tip top of the pile have lost sight of all of us down here on the bottom. You remember us don't you? The ones that go to shows and pay the fees. Not the AAA shows but the B and C shows that are the bread and butter of the sport.

                      We are the ones that volunteer to help at shows. Keeping prices as low as possible in order to provide an outlet for our passion. Some of us are even bold enough to run and support FEI level shows. We were there , WHERE WERE YOU, OH ELETE RIDERS???

                      I am tired of this. Mostly because it detracts from the common cause of our sport. I feel warry that we are going to get short changed. I feel like those in charge do not realise that there is a huge country here. Horse sport does not end at the Appalachian Mountains ( oh except for California).

                      I cannot support the USET because I suspect that my humble donation would not hold up in an audit. Somebody has warm pockets. HOw could anyone worth paying 250,000.00 appear to be so ignorant of the form and function of their "company"?

                      I am fearful that all of this is going to distract and dilute the function and service of the USAE. I have nothing but praise for them after having been involved with show management.

                      Oh and by the way. All you elite riders and trainers who are giving testimony and opinions, I am keeping in mind your feelings. They will certainly determine where I spend my clinic monies.

                      Thanks Portia, I understand the situation better. I think that is what is getting me grumpy.
                      _\\]
                      -- * > hoopoe
                      Procrastinate NOW
                      Introverted Since 1957

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Very well said.

                        As for what may happen now, Snowbird is right that it is a very common tactic of judges, arbitrators, Hearing Examiners, and other conflict decision makers to try to encourage the parties to come to a mutually acceptable agreement by advising them that neither side is going to be happy with the decision.

                        They do that because they know that in most instances, a settlement is the best way to achieve a long-term, workable solution that can set an environment for further amicable relations. In a settlement, no one wins or loses (or at least, neither side is labled a winner or a loser), and each side gets something out of the deal. If it goes to a verdict or the decision-maker is forced to issue a final decision, then there is either a winner and a loser, or there are two losers. There are no "win-wins."

                        In this case, everyone but the USET leadership agrees that the best thing for the sport would be for the two organizations to join forces and work together. It seems that is not going to happen -- after all, it does take both sides being willing to do so to come to an agreement.

                        So, I take the "neither side is going to be happy with the decision" with a small grain of salt, recognizing however that it may well be true.

                        Under the Sports Act and the USOC Constitution, the USOC Board can take only one of 4 defined actions: (a) confirm the existing NGB, (b) declare the challenger as the new NGB, (c) declare that neither org meets the requirements to be the NGB and that therefore a vacancy exists, or (d) declare that the current NGB does not currently meet all the requirements for NGB status but that those deficiencies are of a nature that can be promptly remedied, and put the NGB on probation with directions to remedy the deficiencies.

                        Assuming (as I must based on the evidence presented) that the USOC cannot name the USET as the NGB because of its financial mismanagement, if nothing else, then the big issues become what happens if the USOC declares a vacancy or puts USA Eq on probation.

                        The problem with the probation option is that the deficiencies have to be relatively minor ones, and the USOC may well feel that the split in authority to train, fund, and field teams are not minor deficiencies and therefore probation is not an option.

                        The problem for the USOC with declaring a vacancy is that then no one is the NGB, and the USOC has to assume the duties of the NGB for that sport. That situation would exist, with the USOC governing the sport, until either one of the existing organizations demonstrates that it currently meets all the requirements of NGB status, or until a new organization is established that meets all those requirements. Declaring a vacacy is a huge burden for the USOC, but it has done it before, with Shooting. Shooting is a much smaller and much less complicated sport than Equestrian, but we should not assume that the USOC will be afraid to declare a vacancy. They may do so in hopes that the vacancy will force the two orgs to work together to form the new organization.
                        "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Is there any reason why USA Eq should not immediately put into place the High Performance Division and assume, as the legal NGB for the sport, all of the functions previously performed by the USET?

                          I ask this knowing full well the anger and dissent that this type of action would cause, however, it seems certain to me that doing so would be preferable to having a vacancy declared and having the USOC, esteemed as it may be, declared the interim NGB for a sport ...

                          In the event that the USOC *does* take over for a time, how do they function? Do they adopt FEI rules? Use USAE officials? What about the drugs and meds program... doesn't the Fed lab carry the only FEI designation here????

                          **********
                          To appreciate heaven well
                          'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
                          Will Carleton (1845-1912)
                          **********
                          We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                          -PaulaEdwina

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            That would of course be disasterous for the sport. On the NJ gossip line - a USET employee said they have nothing to worry about the USOC is on their side!!! Could this be delusion or more in line with posts above.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              The USET just issued this press release with their version, sort of, of why the settlement talks broke down. Once again, let's all say it in unison: "It's all the Evil Alan Balch's fault."

                              USET Issues Statement On NGB Matter

                              Gladstone, NJ--October 26, 2001. In response to the press release issued by the American Horse Shows Association (AHSA) on October 25, United States Equestrian Team (USET) President Dr. Armand Leone, Jr. has issued the following statement:

                              "I believe that Mr. Balch has once again failed to clearly and fairly state the position of the USET Board of Trustees. On October 24, the Trustees, after long and significant discussion, voted on two motions. The first one was to authorize continued discussions with the AHSA without withdrawal of a pending motion in Mr. Balch's New Jersey lawsuit; this did not pass by a vote of 12 in favor and 16 opposed. The second motion was to authorize discussion with Mr. Balch provided the New Jersey lawsuit motion was withdrawn. This motion was passed unanimously by the Board, including by Mr. Balch who was a voting trustee on the call and did not object or abstain. Clearly there was a sense of cooperation and hope for settlement from the USET Trustees."

                              "It is important to understand that the lawsuit filed by Mr. Balch was a personal lawsuit designed to derail the proceedings before the USOC. Now that the USOC Hearing Panel has concluded its proceedings, there is no reason for Mr. Balch not to have withdrawn his motion in the lawsuit which is over. The USET simply cannot continue to have discussions with an individual who professes to good faith negotiations on behalf of his organization while pressing on with personal litigation at the same time."

                              "Furthermore, yesterday's assertion that the USOC challenge began all 'this litigation in the first place' ignores the fact that, prior to the filing of the challenge, the AHSA told the USOC in writing that they were prepared to immediately assume all responsibilities previously held by the USET. It was only after this attempt to strip the USET of all its duties and responsibilities that the challenge was filed."

                              "Mr. Balch's actions, and the controversies that continue to plague him as President of the AHSA on so many fronts, should send a clear message to the equestrian community and the AHSA Membership especially. If Mr. Balch truly has the sport's interest at heart, he would have honored the USET Board's request and withdrawn the motion currently pending so that negotiations based on trust could continue."

                              The USOC Board of Directors will receive the Hearing Panel's decision regarding the NGB status for Equestrian shortly so that they may confirm the decision. The parties will be made aware of the Hearing Panel's decision at that time.
                              "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                EGADS!!!!!!!
                                \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Ilona, it's funny, because those are the rumours I've heard since the USET filed the challenge, that the USET insiders were saying they had nothing to worry about because the USOC is on its side. And yes, those rumours worry me because those kind of statments are, in my mind, the equivalent to saying "the fix is in." I desperately hope that is not true.

                                  However, after attending the hearing and seeing the evidence of the financial quagmire into which the USET has sunk itself, I find it very hard to believe that any fix could be in that strong (to put it bluntly). How could the USOC possibly justify giving NGB status to an organization that is deep in debt and teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, all due to its own mismanagement and incomprehensible fiscal policies?

                                  The very first requirement for becoming an NGB is to prove you have the financial and managerial resources to perform the duties of the NGB.

                                  But you want to hear something really scary? I actually heard that one of the trustees on the USET conference call/meeting said that it's not the USET that's in financial trouble, it's really USA Eq that is deep in debt -- and that the USET didn't bring that out at the hearing because it wanted "to take the high road." Dear lord, how delusional do you have to be to believe something like that?
                                  "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Excuse me??
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"It is important to understand that the lawsuit filed by Mr. Balch was a personal lawsuit designed to derail the proceedings before the USOC. Now that the USOC Hearing Panel has concluded its proceedings, there is no reason for Mr. Balch not to have withdrawn his motion in the lawsuit which is over. The USET simply cannot continue to have discussions with an individual who professes to good faith negotiations on behalf of his organization while pressing on with personal litigation at the same time." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    OK - Perhaps it is time to discuss the FACT that the USET has mismanaged its assets to the point that there is only enough left for another two months of existance, and the FACT that they have HID this information from their BOARD and from their MEMBERS - which is illegal, immoral and indecent!

                                    Perhaps it is time for the USET Members to DEMAND some accountability! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]
                                    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Weatherford, the only heartening thing about the reports from the USET meeting is that 12 of the trustees actually went against the wishes of the chosen few and voted to continue the negotiations even if AB did not drop the NJ suit. Maybe some of them are starting to get the idea.
                                      "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Portia - YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING????

                                        I am totally APPALLED!!!
                                        co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Or have Mr. Leone's statements always been so personally directed?

                                          Aren't two boards involved?
                                          Tinwhistle Farm

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X