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LONG ISLAND- The outcome of this past PHA meeting

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  • #41
    Well my opinion on the PHA horse finally got posted only a couple of days late, seems like old news now, but getting back to the meeting for June 11th, Gold Dust, you mentioned something about an incident with Alvin a couple of years ago and that is why he is dead against this meeting, what incident are you talking about that made you mention it!! If you can fill me in maybe then I can understand the reasonings on this. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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    • Original Poster

      #42
      And quietly I might add. Alvin brought it up at the last PHA meeting in mid-sentence and it flew past us all because I think we all thought someone would tell us later what he meant. We were all in the middle of a heated discussion at that point and I would think it was irrelevant at that time. As I have stated in a previous post, it was long ago and I feel since no one remembers it how could it be an issue today?!

      Laura Reed-where are you when we need you. I bet you might know!!
      \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
      Stevie Nicks

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      • #43
        OK, But what was it that he said that flew by you. I know you dont know what he meant by it, but I still dont know what he said, Fill me in on that, maybe I can give it a shot to figure it out!! I maybe out of the loop a little bit but it doesnt take me much to get back in. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
        I like these little smiley guys!!!

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        • #44
          I don't know what incident (LIHSAA) Alvin is referring to. I've been on the LIHSAA committee for just the past 2 years and prior to that, was not at all involved since I didn't show. Only real "contact" I had with LIHSAA was as a steward, making sure I had copies of the specs/rules with me at the shows.

          Also, sorry I couldn't make the LI PHA meeting on the 8th. New job is taking up serious hours.

          On the PHA horse show: good turn out this year, but I agree the schedule needs tweaking. Also think we should be planning the 2002 (50th anniversary!) at the very next PHA meeting.

          Bottom line opinion: I do think LIHSAA issues should have a place on the agenda at PHA meetings. I don't know if the LIHSAA needs to somehow be a sub-committee of LI PHA or somehow be co-mingled in some fashion, but I do know that forward thinking, open dialog is crucial.

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          • #45
            YEAH Laura!!! I also agree with Gold Dust that the LIHSAA needs to create some by-laws, revamp who sits on the committee, and open up their meetings so that John Q Public can be heard. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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            • #46
              to whatever happened in tehpast.all he said was something about a battle in Lihsaa almost destroying the shows on LONG ISland .he did not say how long ago nor did he say who was involved.It seems to me that if even Ms.Rice doesn't know what he's talking about tis incident must have been a REALLY long time ago.It seems tome that it has no legitimacy any longer!!
              Brilyntrip

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              • #47
                Thank you, Laura, for airing your views. I am in your corner on this. I think the whole communication problem began with the addition of unrated divisions into LIHSAA. Before that, there was no real need for the committee to hear from, or report to, the rest of the showing community. All the divisions were under ASHA specs and no one questioned them. But with the influx of the unrated divisions there has been nothing but complications- problems a while ago with the Training Jumpers, and now with the Pre-Childrens and Short Stirrup.

                The committee does try to make a fair but competitive playing field for all, when creating the specs for these divisions. Many trainers, exhibitors, and show managers have their own interpretation of the specs and because there has not been, in the past, any true communication betweenLIHSA and the masses, complications arose.

                The situation will improve with open LIHSA meetings and an upgraded committee with a variety of avid show people placed on it. All the bases must be covered- Management, judges, stewards, exhibitors, trainers. Three from each catagory would put 15 on the committee- a good number. But these must be people who WANT to get involved, and not because they want to see their name in print.

                I'm not sure it will matter if the LIHSA works as a committee within the PHA. If it has a good representation of all the facets of the LI shows it won't really have to.
                \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar

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                • #48
                  I tell ya, listening to all the issues that seem to be problems in the LIHSA I dont know what is easier to do, changing careeers or find a different sport to do as a hobby. What I am trying to say is that there are always going to be issues because you will have one in the crowd that will be against it and then there will be two then three, Before all these divisions were invented, we never had so many issues and problems, I can see the pre child, and the pre adult divisions but honestly think about maybe one or two more, but now Short Stirrup has issues, the problem is there are too many divisions and so you are going to have problems, You cant keep adding to the list divisions because of either the rider or the horse you have, Hey dont get me wrong playing in a fair field is always is an advantage but there are just to many divisions to choose where you fit in, not for anything you tell me other then the prechild/ and pre/adults what other divisions benefited LI. Like I said you are ALWAYS going to have issues do to the fact of classes that are being offered these days. HEY JANET, maybe if all these classes werent being offered and these shows COUNTRY FAIR SHOWS would still be going on and probably going on strong. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
                  DID I mention that I love those smiley faces!!!

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                  • #49
                    You are very close to the true reason why Country Fair has been put to rest. My shows could not compete any longer, since LIHSA incorporated unrated divisions in their awards program. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I'm not sour about it, but it is the biggest reason.
                    \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar

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                    • Original Poster

                      #50
                      You may have closed the shop doors up too soon!!!! If we can not come to some solutions and soon I am getting tribes of people to camp out by your farm until you give in LOL
                      Janet, you hit the nail on the head with that post on LIHSAA. quote-'not just want to see their name in print'- Loved that one!!!
                      I think specs for all will not be a problem even for Sh. St. divisions. We just need people with input that actually are involved with all divisions. Some people on the comittee vote and do not even see the ramification of their vote as they are not involved with the week in and week out world of horseshowing!
                      \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
                      Stevie Nicks

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                      • #51
                        Wow what a big show today!! Dusty too, although what can you do with 20+ days without rain. Saw a lot of faces and boy did I hear a lot of talk about the LIHSAA and LIPHA. The next few meetings could be very good productive meetings as long as everyone can be open minded to each others ideas and we work toward a solution, not argue over all the old stuff.

                        I still think that the LIHSAA would make a good subcommittee within the LIPHA. It would have by laws and have a procedure to follow. Ponypullers idea of a 15 member committee made up of 3 from each facet makes sense. Members should all be active in the Long Island horse show world and members of the LIPHA. They could be voted on annually,or semi-annually so at least there is a way to get rid of non-productive personel. There would be a set time in the LIPHA meeting for a report and to hear any new ideas, just like the treasurer's report, dinner dance committee, or horse show committee. Maybe it would finally provide a way to address any problems there may be with a horse show, division offered, division specs., what ever. I really hope we will be able to work these issues out. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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                        • #52
                          here here
                          Brilyntrip

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                          • #53
                            At the show yesterday, a rumor was floating about- something about a new rule from the AHSA that says Low Hunters can be split only if there are 8 in each division. Is that a new generalized rule for all divisions that potentially split? What does the AHSA care what we do with our Low Hunters?? This is something Joan at the gate was told by Jimmy the previous night in a phone conversation. Fortunately, there were 1746 Lows and it went for ever!!

                            What is that all about?? Help us out, Laura!!

                            [This message was edited by PONYPULR on May. 21, 2001 at 02:49 PM.]
                            \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar

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                            • Original Poster

                              #54
                              In regards to the show, dusty is not the word. When the h*** are we going to get some rain!The talk about the split in the LIHSAA low hunter was insane to me.Did we not just make this division up and talk about it at a past meeting how it was a good thing to do and how popular this division has been? What does that division and the AHSA have to do with each other?

                              Now- I had a pre-childrens hunter yesterday in about a field of approximatly 18-20 horses and since it can not be split horses and ponies someone from LIHSAA comittee ask the judge how dangerous it was to be in that hack? What message are we trying to send here? See if you can survive the hack!
                              \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
                              Stevie Nicks

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                              • #55
                                That does not make any sense at all. How do we end up with these senseless rules??? Why does no one speak up when these senseless rules are made? The most dangerous thing I have ever seen in a show ring in my life was in a short stirrup class and a horse lashed out with a hind foot towards a pony--missed the pony kid's chest by an inch! Pony's vs. horses isn't normally a fair contest no matter if you are speaking in competitive terms or not--but when you can't rely on a kids ability to handle their mount (and no one can tell me that in pre-children's that that is a guarantee) it can be downright dangerous!! Logically, since the ponies and horses are split in the children's, they should also be split in the pre-children's. So why aren't they?
                                Inner Bay Equestrian
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                                KERx

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                                • #56
                                  If the whole argument to split it is to keep the under saddle class from not getting too crowded and unsafe, I don't agree with the argument. If and when a flat class, of any sort, is so large that it appears unsafe, is it not the judge's call as to splitting for safety sake? I can remember many flat classes that were run in "heats", or smaller groups, then the winners of each group rode against each other. If we can't depend on the judges to keep things safe, then an additional rule (ie-no more than 2-4-6-8 shall canter at one time) can be included in the specs.

                                  If the argument is to create another division, then I believe an existing one must be sacrificed- combined with another, whatever. There are entirely too many divisions.
                                  \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar

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                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    Mary, I really do not know who decided not to split it since I am not on that board of decision makers. Some on the board I here did not even know the rule came to be and they run horse shows! Since children hunters are split horses, sm. med. ponies and larges why not split pre-childrens? So what-one more cooler and 10 more minutes at the dinner dance. In the grande scheme of things would that be such a big deal? Janet, I don't think it would be adding another division, just making an exsisting one an even, safer playing field. We would be follwing in the footsteps of the AHSA. I remember the reason we made the division was to prepare the kids for moving up to the real ch. hunter division. Splitting it would be going towards that path correct? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
                                    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
                                    Stevie Nicks

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                                    • #58
                                      Safety is one factor, certainly, but there are other arguments that are valid as well. Sorry Janet, but if the only reason to NOT split pre-children's along horse/pony lines is so we DON'T create another division, I think that should be reconsidered. Since when is it BAD to have another division, if it can be filled, and if it levels the playing field for the kids? Isn't that why half the divisions that have come into being on local and national levels over the past dozen or so years are there to begin with? If we used the logic of not having new divisions for the sake of preventing them from proliferating, then I can think of several that should never have come into being. But the large numbers of entries at all the shows in most of the "newer" (ie "inclusive") divisions are a strong indication that it makes sense to fill the need if the demand is there.
                                      Inner Bay Equestrian
                                      Facebook
                                      KERx

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                                      • #59
                                        I have to say one thing, alright I am lying maybe a couple of more things to say before this week is up, because we are discussing about Long Island shows and there rules and regulations. I cant tell you how confussing this is when putting enteries in, to make sure you are not putting people in classes that you are not eligible for. "But we wont go there" By the time I get that all absorbed in my head, next years "2002" rules and regualtions will be in existence. Here I go again I am going to need a Labodomy." I think that is how you spell it" In any case this used to be so simple now it is Pathedic.
                                        All I know I didnt get this chance to do all that is being offered today, and I am actually greatful that it wasnt. Back then the classes that were offer made you a confident rider. Made you gone to the next level. I do and Like I said before, I agree on some divisions added to the list, But because LI is offering so many divisions to choose from as you know we have to make better rules and regulations. Then maybe some people will have to make other decisions in moving up the ladder, or just be happy where you are, so we can maybe stop adding all the in between stuff, that is why all the extra's are being added. We need to, have as many people support the meetings so we can get to the bottom of this. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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                                        • #60
                                          Should we split the Short Stirrup Hunters, horse and pony too? It sounds like we should split every division that attracts maybe 12 or more consistantly. Isn't this getting a bit ridiculous?

                                          How is it not an even playing field as it is, this Pre-Childrens division?

                                          LIHSA has gone to the unrated world enough. We need to put the competition back in horse showing. All we are teaching is how to win. It is all about the prizes, not about riding well. Riders should not go home with prizes just for showing up.

                                          I grew up showing with 20-40 other maidens and novices at each show, and they were split under 14, and 14 to 18!!! I lost alot!!

                                          Of course, nobody likes to loose, but winning should not come so easily and matter-of-fact. There needs to be a challenge, even for the young ones. For some it's just finding all the jumps, or lead changes, or doing the numbers. Should they be rewarded for still being wet behind the ears? Should mileage include winning?

                                          I know trainers today have alot to answer to. But setting the show system up so everyone goes home winners teaches that not finding all the jumps, not doing the changes, or not doing the numbers is acceptable. Please, raise your standards a little bit, will ya?
                                          \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar

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