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This week's COTH amateur issue: Interesting article on different types of amateurs. Comments?

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  • #81
    Natty--Get it? Yes, I suppose I understand what you are aysing, I just don't see it from my perspective. Sorry, I guess its just two different mentalities.

    I work 40-50 hours a week too, and while I do have some freedom for when I ride (I only have to be in the office 2 days a week), up until this spring I worked a regular 9-5 shift like everyone else with a 45 minute one-way commute.

    For me, the continued learning journey was always more important. Showing and doing well was a goal, but I just can't imagione that goal being somehow seperated from a consistent desire to progress in my riding. It's more fun for me to master a new skill, than hump around at novice forever winning ribbons. Just a difference in outlook, I guess.

    Comment


    • #82
      I worked for years as a "professional" polo groom. I was paid well too for the time I put in. Basically everything was my reponsibility. I had guys that spent some major dinero on some really nice horses and it was up to me to ride them, school them, and yes play them for them when they couldn't get away from the office. Sure they could have used many more hours in the saddle to make them better but the time they had free was so precious to them that all they wanted to do was use it for tournament games. This was their hobby, their pastime. Their "golf" shall we say. My butt was sorely in need of less saddle time but I understood that when they came out all they wanted to do was forget about their wives, their jobs, their kids, and their "real" life. They came to enjoy the moment. I was paid to make that happen...much like pros are paid to make it happen for their clients. This concept cannot be that hard to grasp. We are all divided into the haves and the don't haves.
      ****************************
      \"Just when I thought I was out ,They pull me back in!\"
      -Sylvio Dante--\"The Sopranos\"

      Comment


      • #83
        All this agony and hardship for a $.50 piece of fabric! What would happened if they had good prize money and neato prizes like the western people get?

        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

        Comment


        • #84
          No no no, lucassb!!! I have to protest on your tax bracket split!!

          I require - no, I DEMAND that we split it by income levels AND percentage of people paying more/less taxes than you. For instance, if I must compete against those in my tax bracket, I do not want to be unfairly saddled (pun intended) against those that pay less taxes than I!!!

          I mean those people are clearly earning more money than I and obviously have an unfair advantage. Plus it just plain annoys me to death when turbotax tells me that 80% of the people in my income bracket pay less taxes than I do. Bad enough I have to deal with it one time a year. Competing against them would just be TOO much!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]
          Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

          Comment


          • #85
            MHO is this:

            The shows already are "over divisioned" and the last thing they need are more ways to please EVERYONE. Having come back after 20 years away, I was amazed (and somewhat appalled) at how many divisions had been added to seemingly please everyone.

            The world is not a fair place; why should horse show classes be otherwise? AHSA and show management seem to be trying, via the rules, to respond to as many ideas as possible. But the fact is that there are always going to be people winning that you may object to, for their methods, for their connections, for their $$, for their trainers, etc. I think JBO has the right attitude: if you CHOOSE (and it is a choice) to show at the top A shows, then you must accept that your resources may not be up to the same level as some of your competition. And be that much more thrilled when you beat 'em.

            That said, the other part of the issue must be more policing of existing rules and enforcement by the competitors. If you know that someone is truly abusing the rules, protest. That is what the system is for and you may make a new enemy, at least for awhile, but in the long run, the sport will be the better for it. Just be sure you have facts, not innuendo.

            The amateurs is a division where you really can win if you are a good rider on a good-jumping horse, even if you don't have mega-bucks, and your horse is self-trained. Or if you do have the bucks and can afford to fly in for 48 hours and ride a well groomed, well schooled horse around eight jumps, 3-4 times. If you can find 32 good distances, well, good on ya, however you got there!

            Laurie
            Laurie

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            • #86
              Excellent point! I didn't think about the additional tax issues. Definitely, another split is in order.

              Also, I am thinking that the issue of HELP must be addressed. Maybe splits for paid professional help (one groom/groom plus braider/groom plus braider plus personal assistant) and amateur help (separate sections for "friendly" ie, unrelated help, related help- adult, related help - child, related help - spouse or SO...)

              **********
              To appreciate heaven well
              'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
              Will Carleton (1845-1912)
              **********
              We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
              -PaulaEdwina

              Comment


              • #87
                DMK - I know you don't really think I don't care for PEOPLE who have trainers school their horses right before their division. I love everyone! It's the practice I find distastefull.

                We are all entitled to our opinions, and I will continue to feel the way I do. I think I feel so strongly about the issue because it is the "amateur" division, meaning the horse should be suitable for an amateur to ride. A horse that MUST be riddern by a pro before the amateur gets on is not, IMHO, suitable for an amateur. I'm NOT referring to young, green inexperienced horses, but the ones that campaign regularly like this.

                Use the Force.
                Man plans. God laughs.

                Comment


                • #88
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What could I possibly say, other than I stand humbled before your riding expertise... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                  Not in the least.

                  I may be good at riding actual and potential stoppers (I have several time related the story of how, in my PC "B" testing, I got round clear on the horse that no-one else, including the owner, could get over without at least one stop at every fence).
                  But I stand humbled before your clear ability to ride a hunter course (find eight, maintain a steady pace, get all the changes, etc.).
                  Janet

                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Flash - you are right, it was wrong of me to phrase it that way - "practice" it is! (I should take a page out of my own book - "it's not the people it's the issue")

                    Janet - who on earth lied to you and told you that I could find eight????
                    Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      VTrider, for one.
                      Janet

                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        oh honey chile, no one listens to that WalMart shopping, cowboy lusting, Sea Urchin Fan Club President!!!
                        Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          LucassB and DMK - what if you were qualified for several different divisions? Maybe there could be a point system where tax bracket A earns x, income earns y, and so on........ I certainly wouldn't be at the top of the income divison, and I do have limited riding time, rarely a groom, but I would hate for my nice tack to ruin my chance at the other division............ something to think about [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            I sure never find eight. The one time I did I blew a lead.
                            Let me restate that alot of you are generalizing about the adult amateurs at the AA level shows you do not ever compete in so be careful. Pro riders taking a turn guarantee nothing to the next rider except a safer trip (maybe).
                            Many of you are also looking through much younger eyes and may not be aware of the health challenges facing those in the 46+group, a bad fall is catastrophic but we still want to ride and compete. Some still do all their own work with the horse because they have either stopped working or work few hours. The rest of us find that despite all mental tricks our bodies cannot do both the heavy career load and ride every day like even a 35 year old can.
                            Many of us have spent a lifetime riding. I used to break colts, part of why I now rely on a pro to keep me safe.
                            I really do not see that many older adults take the horse after the trainer does a low and win. Most ride their own in both and ribbon in both.
                            Just because we choose to take advantage of some extra help does not mean we are incompetent riders or cheat.
                            Just that we are older and wiser and hurt worse.

                            From Allergy Valley USA
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              JBO, may I state unequivocally that Butets and Hadfield bridles shall have no bearing on the division one shows in, however those wearing Pateys are at an unfair advantage.
                              Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Findeight, thanks for making me feel young! Although I've been lying on the floor with a bad back all week unable to ride.

                                What about a thong division? I imagine the strength and fitness of your derriere has a lot to do with your ability to get that recalcitrant steed around a course, and all that work probably shapes it up nicely. Who do you think would volunteer at the ingate to check and make sure every rider was wearing a thong? Do I hear Mr. Flash stampeding over old ladies and children to be first in line?

                                Actually, I shouldn't make fun of him. He brought me a dozen roses today for no apparent reason. I don't THINK it's my birthday, and his car doesn't seem to have any new dents in it.

                                Use the Force.
                                Man plans. God laughs.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:

                                  Actually, I shouldn't make fun of him. He brought me a dozen roses today for no apparent reason. I don't THINK it's my birthday, and his car doesn't seem to have any new dents in it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


                                  Ok, Flash! I take back all the nice thoughts I ever had about you. Not only is Mr. Flash adorable and horsey, but he BRINGS YOU FLOWERS for NO apparent reason???? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] Talk about NOT FAIR!!!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I can think of plenty of times when someone should have brought me flowers, yet neglected to do so, let alone your situation. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

                                  And we won't even comment on that thong observation!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

                                  Ok - rant done for now! LOLOL [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
                                  \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
                                    Who do you think would volunteer at the ingate to check and make sure every rider was wearing a thong? Do I hear Mr. Flash stampeding over old ladies and children to be first in line?

                                    Use the Force.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


                                    Mr. Flash appears to be out of practice. Mr. Midge has already set up the inspection box. You know, mirrors, champagne, Barry White. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
                                    Hey, I only said he had good taste in women! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                                    'If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?'
                                    *****
                                    You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> LucassB and DMK - what if you were qualified for several different divisions? Maybe there could be a point system where tax bracket A earns x, income earns y, and so on........ I certainly wouldn't be at the top of the income divison, and I do have limited riding time, rarely a groom, but I would hate for my nice tack to ruin my chance at the other division............ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Very valid concerns.

                                      Tack is certainly NOT going to be one of the components of the new rating system. Hmmm, I would even argue that Pateys should be allowed without bias (OK, that's out of self interest... but the principle is the same!)

                                      So - the fact that we can dress ourselves and/or our horses LIKE winners shall have NO BEARING on the division one is qualified to compete in. However, we have not yet addressed another, related issue...

                                      Of course, I am talking about jewelry. Particularly jewelry on the left hand of the rider in question.

                                      Should there be a separate division, divided by carat weight, for "With ROCKS" and "Without ROCKS"?

                                      Methinks the answer is YES.

                                      **********
                                      To appreciate heaven well
                                      'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
                                      Will Carleton (1845-1912)
                                      **********
                                      We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                                      -PaulaEdwina

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        I have no more need to comment on this thread, DMK you are my idol!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                                        Love,
                                        RF
                                        (Currently @ home from school with 2 broken ribs and a mild concussion- gotta love those greenies! Especially the ones that dont even belong to you! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] )

                                        -----------------------------
                                        I cant take it anymore - its
                                        back to the old name for me.
                                        -----------------------------
                                        Teneriffe Enterprises- NW Indiana
                                        www.saradanielhaynes.com

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                                        • Does this mean you get your horse RF back??? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
                                          http://community.webshots.com/user/cotswoldjr
                                          http://temp.hillcresttrainingnet.off...m/default.aspx
                                          [url]
                                          Starman Babies

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